Posted on 05/18/2009 9:21:32 PM PDT by americanophile
With the rapid growth of Muslim populations in Europe, Muslim demographics represents a topic that is on everyone’s mind. From the rising radicalism of UK Muslims to the car burnings that shook Paris to the riots in Brussels and the growing acceptance that some form of Sharia law will be integrated into the legal systems of individual European nations-- not just the size, but the projected size of Muslim populations is behind attitudes toward Muslims.
(Excerpt) Read more at canadafreepress.com ...
US is in the same boat. Without Central and South American immigrants we would have negative population growth.
That’s the rub isn’t it...millions of illegal immigrants. But they’re Catholic, thank God. The Lord works in mysterious ways.
OK.....everybody pony up ten bucks and let’s get this FReepathon over....
Thanks.
Forcible castration as part of population control was an idea put forth by Rajiv Gandhi.
Roughly only 40% are Catholic and supposedly only half that remain so after coming here, not to mention the further reduction in those numbers in the next native born generation.
Short of a major war...or a major city-size terrorist attack on European soil, I do not see how any of these 4 things can or will be changed in the next 30 years (which is the magic window of when Muslim immigrants will be a majority in Europe).
I am not optimistic about Europe's future. Unless all 4 factors (Euro birth rates, tax reduction, s.services reduction, and curtailing immigration) change FAST (and all 4 must work together), there really isn't much hope, in my opinion...other than that millennia old European tradition--brutal warfare.
...they ain’t Muslim!
Don’t forget that the US helped cement an Islamic foothold in Europe by enabling Muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo.
Inmates running the asylum.
The Muslim issue in France, UK, Spain, Italy are due to immigration from former colonies and have nothing to do with Bosnia. Yugoslavian issue affects primarily Central and Eastern Europe as it always has for centuries.
“But they’re Catholic, thank God. The Lord works in mysterious ways.”
Maybe Catholic but as a group they don’t believe in freedom. Vote to enslave themselves and us under socialism/communism.
End will be the same. Misery.
Communism brought to you by democrat party or Fascism brought to you by the Muslims.
Add Christianity and the formula would be perfect.
And the current administration is doing its best to help cement an Islamic foothold here in the US.
A Brit I know insists this is all rubbish, that the UK has no problem with Muslim terrorists, there are a few bad apples but 99% of Muslims are law-abiding citizens and all that.
What might be the saving grace for Britain is that they don’t lump Muslims into ghettos (like other European countries), thus there is the chance that they will assimilate to the native culture. Thus each native born Muslim generation will most likely liberalize or at least apostatize. At which point they will adopt culture of death like the rest of the native population. Of course there is the phenomenon of the wealthy liberalized Muslim kid that all of a sudden finds his/her’s fundamental side. It still tears down or augments the native culture though since those immigrating have a different cultural ethic.
1% of 1 million is 1,000 and 1% of 10 million is 10,000 and 1% of 100,000.000 is 100,000.
I could see the people of Constantinople saying that...
sharia bump
I'm not sure that's true, the Muslim population is heavily concentrated in the midlands, and in a city like London, they are heavily concentrated in the East End, specifically boroughs like Tower Hamlets. They're not forced into ghettos, but it occurs naturally because they wish to live seperately, as Muslims. Add to this their extremely high rate of unemployment, and you have a real problem. Of course the biggest problem is Islam itself - it is fundamentally at odds with Christianity and western society.
Big mistake and the Western non-Muslim countries need to end Muslim immigration. This is not hard to figure out. Hopefully Geert Wilders will get the ball rolling.
Yes they do and no one is forcing them to live like that. What facts do you have to back up what you are saying? They are not “most likely to liberalize or apostate”, that is far from the truth as to what is going there. They feel they can take the country and are going to continue to push forward. The same behavior has started here.
UK:Muslims, we Will not Assimilate
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/01/ukmuslims-we-will-not-assimilate.html
Check out the video of UK Muslim leaders calling for Sharia law, by force if necessary.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/11/new-anti-sharia-law-petition-for-uk.html
UK:Metro Police Run From Muslims~Video
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/01/ukmetro-police-run-from-muslims.html
That Brit is in serious denial. Also it does not matter if they are law-abiding. They do not have to break the law to take over. They just keeping complaining about what needs to change to suit Islam and the pc crowd caters to them. One demand leads to another. Then they also get involved in politics to push their Islamic agenda. Political Islam is even more dangerous to life as we know it than potential suicide bombers.
That does not mean that the Muslims of Bosnia are not getting stricter in regards to Islam. The same problem is taking place across Europe.
Well put. What’s curious is how this guy keeps denying it, even when I don’t bring the subject up. I told him he sounds like he’s trying to convince himself.
Thanks. I met this Brit from the Midlands the other day online. He was online with me and then a British lady came on. He converted to Islam and to make a long conversation short because it is so late.....he was in complete denial about how Islam and UK cultures and laws CANNOT mix. He knew all the Koran quotes about dominating non-Muslims and he just kept trying to make them fit in with British culture. You could tell he was gutless and it was almost like he knew the country would fall to Islam and he was trying to justify it to himself. The British woman told him off, that Islam cannot fit in and he was a traitor. LOL!
Good night.
And everyone is tip-toeing around the fact that America and some coalition of countries will need to seize or make inoperable the nuclear weapons held by certain European countries. Should the muslim Nazis get control of these nuclear arsenals, we’re looking at nuclear war.
But I watched “24” last night. All Muslims are wonderful and spiritual. No worries there. /sarc
You can no longer separate the two and make that distinction anymore.
The demographics are a good deal less straightforward than the article and some of the posts recognise. A common but fallacious assumption in discussing this topic, in relation to Britain in particular, is that recent immigration is predominantly or even wholly muslim. The pattern of post-Second World War immigration to Britain was set by the large-scale influxes of the late 1950s and early 1960s (which mostly took place, incidentally, under Conservative governments, but that’s another story...). More recent additions, including illegals, are numerically much smaller than those original cohorts and the second and third generations deriving from them. Throughout this period, large numbers of immigrants have not only not been muslim (such as the Afro-Caribbeans), but have also come from countries or cultures with long experience of resistance to or hostility to muslim hegemony (Hindus and Sikhs to name but two).
Now whatever you may think of the supine or passive response of the indigenous majority, it’s unlikely that these other groups, who also have healthy birthrates, will be quite so compliant. Which is not to say there’s no problem - there certainly is; but a trajectory from this point is far more difficult to predict than is commonly assumed here. For what it’s worth, my own perspective from here in Britain is that the most critical consequence of the immigration saga over the last five decades is to do with overall numbers, and that the muslim issue, although important, is secondary to this.
Hi mate, don’t feel bad, America is making the same mistakes, things are just not as bad yet.
Bring back Britishness!
Good luck over there,
Chris
I have to say, I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Are you suggesting that newly arrived Muslims will want to keep other Muslims from immigrating? If so, why?
I would agree that the degree of 'Islamization' is relative to the overall population, were it not for the unbelievable efforts by the left-dominated British media and governing elites to not only welcome or accommodate Islamic freedom to worship, but seemingly to place Islam on a pedestal. Prince Charles, the future 'Defender of the Faith' is so taken with Islam that people openly question whether he isn't a closeted convert. The Archbishop of Canterbury, detestable slug that he is, has actually called for the adoption of certain elements of Sharia law! This is madness for a country with such a rich western tradition. That said, I believe that the demographics themselves ARE a real problem. I note reports such as the following:
"According to research by The Times, Office for National Statistics data shows that the Muslim population in Britain has grown by more than 500,000 between 2004 and 2008. The Islamic population multiplied 10 times faster than other population groups in British society. During the same four year period, the number of Christians in the UK actually fell by more than 2 million. Experts have put the Islamic population explosion down to the effects of mass immigration, a higher birthrate amongst Muslim communities and conversion to Islam."http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/2009/02/01/muslim-population-rising-10-times-faster-than-rest-of-the-uk/
How can you deny this problem when more people attend English mosques than the Church of England on a daily basis? "According to figures 930,000 Muslims attend a place of worship at least once a week, whereas only 916,000 Anglicans do the same. Muslim leaders are now claiming that, given such a rise of Islam in Britain, Muslims should receive a share of the privileged status of the Church of England. ... Lord Ahmad Patel, a Labour peer said 10 extra seats should be allocated to other religions. The Church of England has 26 seats in the House of Lords."http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5983_548391,00430005.htm
When the number one or two newborn baby name in England is Muhammed? www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1890354.ece
Christian Britain, the one that launched the industrial revolution, made staggering contributions to science and literature, that reshaped vast swathes of the world in its image and did so much to plant the seeds of democracy is losing its identity to the twin evils of secular progressivism and Islam - the first is merely the enabler for the latter, whose fanaticism cannot be contended with.
“Bring back Britishness!”
The “Britishness”, along with the Frenchies et al Europeans, kick started this Muslim saga. Remember colonial days and attempts of the British government(s)?
Ask your British government(s) to discontinue hosting a whole host of Mullahs of Iran & their associates, and their robes and turbans in Britain.
Bullseye.
“US is in the same boat. Without Central and South American immigrants we would have negative population growth.”
Just curious, how many kids do you have?
I think anyone making this point must state for the record how many kids they have. I have 3, by the way, but I am an AMERICAN of Mexican descent so my breeding might not count in some people’s eyes.
What does count is the fact that I am a gun-owning, right-thinking American who is bringing his kids up to be proud of this blessed country. And we don’t need anyone’s permission or acceptance to be who we are. We were here in the Southwest before the pilgrims left Europe, before there was even a Untied States of America, and we are still here loving and defending our home.
But if you ain’t breeding, the point about negative population growth rings kind of hollow, doesn’t it?
Get busy you white people!!
Quite the contrary. The 'other groups' I was talking about, as I hoped I had made clear, are the NON-muslim immigrants. The whole point of my post was that these non-muslim immigrants, who are here in large numbers, will have an important role to play in the evolution of British society: and this is usually ignored in these discussions. As for your later questions - I certainly don't, and didn't, deny the problem. I was simply pointing out an important factor which will influence its evolution, possibly in a positive way.
Time for Crusades Part 2.
“The “Britishness”, along with the Frenchies et al Europeans, kick started this Muslim saga. Remember colonial days and attempts of the British government(s)?”
Muslims were trying to takeover the world long before this. Islam itself is the problem, not British culture. (Which is what I was referring to.)
Thanks for the analysis, will pass it on to my friend, who will no doubt continue to deny, deny, deny.
"“The “Britishness”, along with the Frenchies et al Europeans, kick started this Muslim saga. Remember colonial days and attempts of the British government(s)?”
However, in the above quote I was referring to the more modern history of Islam in Europe & the UK. Although muslims were present in the UK during the 18th century, during the19th century and into the 20th century, Europeans (including the British) colonized regions with a Muslim majority. This brought the European population into contact with Muslim populations, both as the army and civil administration in these new colonies, and with Muslim immigrants who came to the colonizing country. During the colonial period, a large number of Muslims visited or migrated to the colonizing European nations for a variety of reasons, many as seamen, and soldiers, some as royalty, and others to study and learn about new European methods.
After the colonies achieved independence, the European countries enabled mass immigration from their former colonies. During and after 1950s, particularly, in the 1960s and early 1970s, guest workers were brought over by the governments of France, the UK, Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and Scandinavia. Today, the majority of the muslim population in the UK originate from Pakistan, Bangladesh and to a lesser extent India, the remainder are from certain Middle East countries (all ex colonies of the UK). Spain, and France (particularly) have many Muslims from North Africa (all ex French colonies, some shared with Spain such as Morocco); Netherlands has Muslims mostly from Indonesia (ex Dutch colony), Morocco and Turkey.
Other European nations such as Germany has a large Turkish and Kurdish Muslim population; Norway has a large Pakistani and Somali population and Sweden has many Iraqi immigrants.
Today most Muslim immigrants come either as asylum seekers or as part of family reunification. Many of the second generation migrants marry spouses from their former homeland.
Now, I agree with you that immigration has to be limited if not stopped, especially as there are vast cultural differences between the Muslim world at large, and the Western world - many of these muslims refuse to assimilate or even integrate. Many demand their own inheritance, divorce, marriage, and banking laws to be applied, which Britain and certain other European countries have obliged. Never mind the issue of dress codes for muslim women and that there are apparently some 1500 mosques in the UK, approximately 65 belong to the orthodox Salafi (Muslim) school. On the other hand, many of these muslims are first, second or even third generation British or European born; but, I'm told at least some 40% of these are staunch, practicing muslims. What should the Western governments, which once upon a time allowed such mass migration to take place, now do?
And of course it's the economy which is another big factor in this - with the UK, for the foreseeable future, no longer the land flowing with milk and honey it was fabled to be, its attractions for a would-be immigrant may no longer outstrip those of some other countries. After all it was British labour shortages and the almost guaranteed availability of a job, not benefits, which started all this in the 1950s and 60s.
“On the other hand, many of these muslims are first, second or even third generation British or European born; but, I’m told at least some 40% of these are staunch, practicing muslims. What should the Western governments, which once upon a time allowed such mass migration to take place, now do?”
There is not much that can be done about this now. But I did read that 3 out 4 converts leave Islam within the first 3 years.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44dO9lWO830
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