Posted on 05/17/2009 8:34:38 PM PDT by Irish Rose
Donald Rumsfeld covered Iraq briefing papers with Biblical texts
According to a report in GQ magazine the religious texts were imposed over pictures of the US armed forces engaged in the war.
Shown to only a small circle of senior advisers, the pages were first used on the eve of the 2003 invasion and were designed to provide support and encouragement to Mr Bush, a Christian who often cited the Bible while in office.
Some Pentagon officials feared that if the documents were leaked at the height of the conflict, the use of Christian language to justify the invasion of a Muslim nation would cause a furore in the Islamic world.
One official told GQ that the damage done to America's image would have been as bad as that caused by the release of photographs showing the abuse of Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Ghraib jail in Baghdad.
On April 1, 2003, as US troops were heading for Iraq, and casualties were beginning to be taken, Mr Rumsfeld's "World Intelligence Update" featured a line from Proverbs 16:3: "Commit to the LORD whatever you do, and your plans will succeed". Beneath was a picture of a machine-gunner on the road from Baghdad to Hilla.
Two days before Saddam Hussein was toppled on April 9, 2003, the cover sheet showed a picture of the Iraqi leader and a quotation from 1 Peter 2:15: "It is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men." ...
Mr Rumsfeld is not known for his piety but appears to have been currying favour with his boss, who at first called his "war on terror" a "crusade" but then backed down when the depiction caused consternation in Muslim nations.
(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...
And I admit to ignorance as to Rumsfeld's "piety". I don't know how religious he is, if religious at all. But I would not jump to the conclusion that he put in the Bible verses to "curry favor".
Thought this might interest you.
Big deal, Clinton’s advisers covered Bosnian War briefing papers with “Juggs” magazines.
I guess it is now un-Christian to be Christian.
Who care what UK Telegraph thinks
The people who leaked this are weenies, possibly traitors. This story will do great harm to the Republic, of which these weenies are Enemies.
I’d be curious to know the source of the GQ magazine article.
It’s being published in GQ mag, a U. S. publication.
Good for Donald.
GQ is well-known for its hard-hitting, investigative political journalists :P
Agreed.
If it’s true, I think it was a stupid thing for Rumsfeld to do, though. I mean, have your spiritual words in person.
Why?
It would seem to me to be common sense.
If you are writing something to the President of the US regarding a war situation, and you know it could become public record, why not make your case with information and facts, particularly when you are talking about a war with a nation that is not Christian...not with quotes from the Bible. It makes it look as though you are religiously motivated, not motivated by facts and information.
Not that the two are mutually exclusive, but I think that writing down Biblical quotes on a document about war absolutely WILL feed the enemy’s furore AND will make the previous administration look as though they used Christianity to make the case for war.
Doesn’t anyone else think that if this is true, it was stupid of Rumsfeld to insert religion into the equation for war??
Now, I know that the Muslims have...you don’t need to tell me. I know what Jihad means and I’m familiar with Iran’s apocalyptic 12th Imam ideology. But this will make us look like religious hacks who use Jesus for war.
If the Bible were to guide our government, we’d be a lot better off.
When you are giving CLASSIFIED counsel to the President, you give your whole counsel. And you don’t expect that, years later, some REAL hacks will leak that classified information to the press.
Now, could you try to be even more offensive to Christians, please? You haven’t offended us quite enough yet.
Probably because you’ve made it clear you have no understanding of the still-coming Final War, and who will be the Commander if Chief for that war.
So, rather than being offended, we’re tsk, tsking your lacking.
Oh, I don't know, and the truth is that I really don't care. Are we really any better off because the always-angry jihadists are slightly less angry today?
If quoting the Bible was ok with them when done by Mohamet, it shouldn’t be any problem when done by Rumsfeld.
Has this been confirmed by any other news source?
It makes you look like you are a prayerful man and given to great energies looking to God for guidance and strength.
The verses are part mission statement, part message, that you are mindful of the great and terrible thing you are engaged and that you are looking to God for help and strength.
Franklin Roosevelt's D-Day Prayer June 6, 1944 My fellow Americans: Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far. And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer: Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our Nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity. Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith. They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph. They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest-until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war. For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and good will among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home. Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom. And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas -- whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them--help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice. Many people have urged that I call the Nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts. Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces. And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be. And, O Lord, give us Faith. Give us Faith in Thee; Faith in our sons; Faith in each other; Faith in our united crusade. Let not the keenness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose. With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogancies. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister Nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil. Thy will be done, Almighty God. Amen.
no kidding
Not that I know of.
“Doesn’t anyone else think that if this is true, it was stupid of Rumsfeld to insert religion into the equation for war??”
Why do you assume this to be a true report? If something is in print, does that make it true?
No. I’ve met Don Rumsfeld and dealt with a company that he headed - this report is false and intended to denigrate him. The more pertinent question is why is this report being put out? Probably to elevate Obama by comparing him to a past Republican office holder who the article is belittling. Petty politics - the realm of The One.
You said — I guess it is now un-Christian to be Christian.
—
It’s definitely un-Christian to make any decisions based on Christianity. That much is obvious.
You can go to church and listen to the preacher — but don’t dare decide to do anything in your life or anyone else’s life based on what you hear in church or read in the Bible.
That’s what is a *real crime* — doncha know... LOL...
"This is General Patton, do you have a good prayer for weather? We must do something about those rains if we are to win the war".
By the way, here is the GQ article the Telegraph report is based on:
http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?&id=content_9217
Here is the author’s explanation of where he got the papers from: “But one government official was disturbed enough by these biblically seasoned sheets to hold on to copies, which I obtained recently while debriefing the past eight years with those who lived them inside the West Wing and the Pentagon.”
A bit more about the history of the sheets: “In the days before the Iraq war, Shaffer’s staff had created humorous covers in an attempt to alleviate the stress of preparing for battle. Then, as the body counting began, Shaffer, a Christian, deemed the biblical passages more suitable.”
Thank you Again, Dear Sister in Christ; it was a Blessing to Read this!
Here is an Awesome Article to Share with Anyone you Might Know who Loves Donald Rumsfeld!
I am a Christian. I am not trying to offend Christians.
And I have said in previous posts, “if this is true”...
The upcoming FINAL war does not require us to act in order to hasten it. That is the difference between US and followers of Islam.
When you are giving classified cousel to the president in the form of written classified counsel, I do not think it’s prudent to pepper that document with Biblical quotes.
Why in the world would saying so be a problem for people.
“When you are giving CLASSIFIED counsel to the President, you give your whole counsel. And you don’t expect that, years later, some REAL hacks will leak that classified information to the press.”
So you approve, then, of the appearance of a “holy war” on our part? I don’t.
Chaplain: “Do you read the Bible?”
Patton: “Every GD’ned day.”
“...this report is false and intended to denigrate him.”
I’ll be interested in seeing the response.
I *do* believe that this administration will do anything up to and including falisfying documents in order to tarnish the former administration. It would be nice to get proof that they do so.
What part of classified and leak are you having trouble understanding? Rumsfeld wasn’t publishing this on the front page of the Post.
I’m having the same problem understanding “classified” and “leaked” that has plagued political office-holders for all history.
I understand classified and leaked. Try this link.
http://men.style.com/gq/features/topsecret
I think it was irresponsible of Rumsfeld to “Biblicize” this war. If these are real.
I was annoyed when Obama talked, in his inauguration speech, about putting away childish things...because I KNEW he was quoting scripture and he was full of it. It was a simply use of Biblical text to paint opposition as childish.
Rumsfeld should have known better. Again, if these are real. IF these are real.
These folks KNOW that things can be leaked.
“See, I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. So be as cunning as serpents and as innocent as doves.”
It’s not very cunning to place Bible texts over military pictures. It makes it seem like a holy war.
I hope these are fake.
It appears you have a political agenda that is taking precedence over your Christian walk.
I haven’t heard any condemnation from you of the weasel or weasels who leaked this classified information to GQ, yet you continue to criticize Rumsfeld.
Isa 55:11 - “So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it.”
“It appears you have a political agenda that is taking precedence over your Christian walk.”
Let me say, oh pious one, that I have a mind that sometimes has opinions about things that I observe. I would be careful criticizing someone’s Christian walk. That’s a low blow and just plain rude.
You must not have read prior posts that said I do not trust this administration not to leak and possibly to even manufacture documents. I have been clear here.
Continue to criticize Rumsfeld? I am saying what I said in the first or second post, that I do not believe it was prudent of him to paste Biblical verses on pictures of war. This is my opinion. You have not changed it. Of course, you can’t really CHANGE someone’s opinion by attacking their comprehension and walk of faith.
“I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak, for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”
This IS a Holy War n00b, what is the surprise?
I call “BS” on this one; the timing on this coincides with the Notre Dame debacle...and is designed to marginalize the well-formed conscience in public debate by illustrating the potential for abuse.
Welcome to FR!
“It’s not very cunning to place Bible texts over military pictures. It makes it seem like a holy war.”
AS opposed to virtually 100% of the Koran texts over pictures our enemies are plastering all over the place?
That’s just it, it more than seems like a Holy War, because that’s exactly what it IS!
Muslims attacking Jews and Christians because we’re infidels.
That’s what it’s ALWAYS been about since Islam was devised.
There’s nothing at all wrong with embracing reality.
This particular war, of our particular time, is merely one more chapter of the Crusades, a link in a contimuum building up to the final battle at Armageddon.
Unfortunately, it won’t matter if they’re inflammed, because we’re going to be battling people with 7th century mindsets rather Armageddon is next week or 20,000 years from now.
I’d vote in a heart beat for a President that declared Christianity is truth and will defeat the lie of Islam, preferably peaqcefully, but forcefully when and where necessary.
For all the so-called hand-wringing violence this might cause, it might also cause alot of second thoughts on their part, AS WELL as bring alot of secular people to their senses over here and Europe.
Meeting them with force and strength is what’s going to buy you more time, not the other way around.
Your reply would have carried more weight if you had actually posted some criticism of the leaker or leakers. You still haven’t.
BTW, you didn’t just say it wasn’t ‘prudent’ of Rumsfeld; you said it was STUPID of him. Sounds like a pretty strong criticism.
I understand your post.
There’s a famous saying by William F Buckley ( I think ). He cautioned us not to “immenentize the eschaton”.
I think, though, that this is an instance where some people seem to feel that there can be no criticism of the former administration, Bush was a Christian, it won’t be tolerated...etc.
I understand there is a jihad against us by Al Qaeda. I did not know we had declared a Jihad against Iraq. The reasons I understood for the allies’ mission in Iraq was that Saddam had WMD’s, there was an ongoing violation of a UN resolution, and that Al Qaeda roamed Iraq somewhat and would have access to these weapons. Also, Saddam was a dictator without mercy or ethics and even though we had supported him in the past, the situation for the Iraqi people was intolerable.
That’s not jihad. That’s not “holy war”. That is not a desire to eliminate a population because they do not worship the Christian god...that’s a desire to liberate people from a dictator in order to help establish stability in the region.
If the goal has changed to eliminating all Muslims from the world, then I’m not onboard. I believe in missionaries and I think people can be converted...but I’m not for killing Muslims because they are Muslims. Unless they are Al Qaeda or a group we are at war with.
So, when we do this liberation of Iraq...and then (if it happened) Donald Rumsfeld takes these photos of the operation and puts Biblical texts all over them, I think it
is imprudent and yes, stupid.
If he had sent Bush some verses. No problem. If he had said, “Mr. president, I understand the launch of this effort is a difficult time, here are some Bible verses I thought might help sustain you....” Great.
But taking pictures of an operation that is already sensitive and putting religion directly on the pictures of the soldiers? No. I don’t like it.
I’ve said what I’m going to say. I’m not going to hang on this thread. I think I’ve been clear and reasonable. If you disagree...just have a lovely day knowing this is the USA and we have the right to say what we mean and believe.
I don't think it's a matter of Bush not being able to be criticized, sheesh that's all the man WAS for 8 years was criticized.
And beyond: imbeciles like Bob Beckel on Hannity said, "let's not forget 9-11 occurded on his (Bush's) watch", when they were arguing about the CIA & torture, etc....to which Hannity did NOT snap back, and SHOULD have said, "which was planned for the 8 miserable years Bubba couldn't keep his hands off interns...BOB"!
...but I digress.
I understand your post too.
But the fact remains, we didn't start this latest incident and/or make it a religious jihad. We don't need to tiptoe around hurt feelings or be politically correct in my opinion, because this will not keep or make us safer, but rather in my mind LOSE us alot more respect.
Animals don't understand anything but force and do not respect weakness and bin-laden, Saddam and sons and all their coward killer allies ARE/WERE animals.
The reasons I understood for the allies’ mission in Iraq was that Saddam had WMD’s, there was an ongoing violation of a UN resolution, and that Al Qaeda roamed Iraq somewhat and would have access to these weapons. Also, Saddam was a dictator without mercy or ethics and even though we had supported him in the past, the situation for the Iraqi people was intolerable.
I was separated from my family during dsesert storm to go to England as a medic in the AIr Force in 1991. And I remember these exact same stupid liberals yelling "Bush (#1) didn't finish the job, we'll only have to revisit this idiot again down the road because he USED WMD", (nevermind had them, but actually had them and USED them against his own people, the kurds and shiite in the south.
Frankly, the media never stopped trying to destroy Bush and 24/7 they yammered about WMD.
But you're right, any rational person could have made an argument to remove Saddam and sons because they started wars with or attacked or invaded basically every single neighboring country at one time or another...or that he was breaking international laws, his programs of WMD were found to have never stopped, and above all, breaking the cease fire agreements from the first gulf war! i.e. no fly zones, stealing food for oil, etc. etc. etc.
I think what you fail to understand is we didn't have this approach with naziism. Or Imperial Japan, very cultlike in their approach also. Frankly there simply will never BE peace with Islam. That's biblical. I do agree we should convert as many people or bring as many to the truth as possible but the sad fact is, there will be the Hitler's the Stalin's, the Saddam's, the Bin-Laden's and even the Jim Jones loons.
I don't pretend to understand Rummy's mind or what the pictures were for or who were intended to see them, or even say he's clean as the wind driven snow. But the fact is, if we sneeze, then hordes of people are going to be offended because we're infidels. Chritians and Jews are to be destroyed if not converted. Period.
And I'll take a Gen. Black Jack Pershing or a George Patton over a Wesley Clark or Colin Powell every single time.
I don't disagree with everything you've said, and again welcome to FR!
From National Review Online:
Statement by Keith Urbahn
Office of Donald Rumsfeld
GQ’s “Facts” on Rumsfeld
The slides in the “World Intelligence Update” were prepared on a daily basis by military personnel serving on the Joint Staff, which reported to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, not the Secretary of Defense. The report was briefed regularly to senior military officials in the Pentagon – only occasionally to the Secretary of Defense and not to the President of the United States.
Rumsfeld was fully aware that words and actions could be harmful and counterproductive to the war effort. It’s safe to say that some of these cover slides could be considered in that category. The suggestion that Rumsfeld would have composed, approved of, or personally shown the slides to President Bush is flat wrong. It did not happen.
Given that Draper used anonymous sources for this charge as well as for the rest of the innuendo in his piece, one would think he might have at least done a cursory review of the facts. He might then have avoided being taken by people with an axe grind. When Draper goes back and checks reality against his reporting, he might also check whether GQ is in need of a new gossip columnist.
“I think what you fail to understand is we didn’t have this approach with naziism. Or Imperial Japan, very cultlike in their approach also. Frankly there simply will never BE peace with Islam. That’s biblical. I do agree we should convert as many people or bring as many to the truth as possible but the sad fact is, there will be the Hitler’s the Stalin’s, the Saddam’s, the Bin-Laden’s and even the Jim Jones loons.”
Agreed about Islam. And in attacking Al Qaeda in Pakistan or Afghanistan, we are involved in a war against those who are nebulously engaged in a “jihad” with us. I just don’t see the majority of Iraqis as “jihadists”. My hope is that Iraq can become a stable ally in the Middle East, but I’m an eternal optimist.
I remember the first gulf war, too and you are right. Bush Sr. was facing criticism for not doing enough. People with selective memories also tend to forget Clinton bombing the crap out of Baghdad at a time when it seemed to be a deliberate attempt to deflect attention from “other” things.
I moved to Belgium shortly after Libyan terrorists had blown part of the front off of the NATO Support Activity we went to. IIRC, Reagan bombed Tripoli and the problem was solved.
There were places in Belgium that I didn’t get out of the van because of menacing packs of Muslim youths without respect for much at all and with a particular tendency to harass women. Every woman in America needs to educate herself about Islam in that respect.
But we all know about leaks. If you are like me, right now, I kind of enjoy it when the CIA leaks something that doesn’t threaten national security, but reveals the Democrats as the rabble-rousers they are with this whole “torture” thing. I want them to leak what Cheney wants Obama to release. I want to know how many plots by jihadists were thwarted here in the USA.
I just have a problem with Rumsfeld (again IF he did) lacking foresight. I think it was an unneeded thing to do, placing Bible verses on pictures of *this* conflict. I expect some semblence of forethought/sight from Republican leaders.
Recently Obama made a comment something like, “if anyone had thought the biggest problems he would face wouldn’t be Iraq...but would be economic....” And I thought, “How did we all not know that Iraq was winding down?”
“What kind of leadership doesn’t plan for the obvious eventualities...?” And then I realized...the one we have. And flying by the seat of your pants in the Oval Office is a dangerous, dangerous thing...because most of US know to expect the unexpected. But this administration is clueless.
I just expect better from Republican leaders.
Time for a full-out assault on this story. It’s all over Digg and Buzz.
Do you have a link to this? I can’t find it.
Sure: National Review Online.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MjhkMDFkNzJmZGY5ZDZhMzQ2MzFmNTQ1ZjJhMjc1ZmM=
Sweet. CNN has it too! Thank you!
I agree with you. While it may have been founded with JudeoChristian values in mind, our is and should remain a secular government. One need only look at the Muslim theocratic states for the reason why. This was just plain dumb, and I consider myself a Rummy fan.
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