Posted on 05/16/2009 9:43:28 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
Human-Ape Hybridization: A Failed Attempt to Prove Darwinism
by Jerry Bergman, Ph.D.*
Ilya Ivanov (1870-1932) was an eminent biologist who achieved considerable success in the field of artificial insemination of horses and other animals. Called “one of the greatest authorities on artificial fecundation,”[1] he graduated from Kharkov University in 1896 and became a professor of zoology in 1907. His artificial insemination techniques were so successful that he was able to fertilize as many as 500 mares with the semen of a single stallion.
Ivanov also pioneered the use of artificial insemination to produce various hybrids, including that of a zebra and a donkey, a rat and a mouse, a mouse and a guinea pig, and an antelope and a cow. His most radical experiment, though, was his attempt to produce a human-ape hybrid....
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
Ping!
I don’t see how Human/Ape hybridization would prove anything. It would be a case of Intelligent Design by merging two previous designs.
human-ape hybrid
that’s gross..and goes against God’s fundamental moral, natural orders!!
I have to agree here. This is just outright sick! Besides, it would prove nothing, because there was intervention by science, rather than the natural order.
Bingo!!!
Thanks for the ping!
A human/ape hybrid wouldn’t surprise me if some pervert did it. Lion/tiger, wolf/dog,etc have been done. Show me a manbearpig!! That’s what I need for proof.
LOL!
I read the whole article. It really cracked me up! Chinese people evolved from orangutans, blacks from gorillas and whites from chimps...AND JEWS FROM GIBBONS!
LOL!
I love this science! It’s funny AND un-PC.
They left out bonobos though. Who evolved from bonobos? I know, homos did!
LOL
I thought Obama’s mother already did this. OOPS, Shame on me....
The apes probably tried to peel the ladies -- just couldn't help themselves.
....Exactamundo
What actually happened. I don't think he ever got the volunteers!! "In the spring of 1930 Ivanov came under political criticism at his veterinary institute. Finally on December 13, 1930 Ivanov was arrested. He was sentenced to five years of exile to Alma Ata,"
They probably all had high IQs but were still incredibly stupid.
"8 When applying to the Soviet government for funds, Ivanov emphasized the importance of his research for anti-religious propaganda.
Just Wow, those evo-atheists trying to advance their religion in the name of science again.
If the humanoids were Democrats, it would be an upgrade for the Democrat party.
Unfortunately, it would be a slide down the ladder for the monkeys.
It accounts for James Carville though..
“...at least five of the women died.”
It’s to imagine that this would have happened unless the women became pregnant—with SOMETHING.
If the different “races” (even though “race” has no scientific meaning) came from different progenitors, then an Asian-Caucasian child would be just as unlikely as an Orang-Chimp baby.
Human Ape Hybrid?
Two words.
Janet Reno.
Oh come on! You never heard of Fay Ray and the big ape that fell for her, King Kong?
He had a very brief but memorable movie career.
He was big in New York and even made to the top floor but died suddenly due to a tragic fall in the aviation business.
Miss Ray said Kong just wasn’t husband material since he tended to loose his temper and break things.
Too bad. There wouldn’t be so many LIBs otherwise. Apes are smarter than LIBs.
“zebra and a donkey”
They have those at Pine Mountain Animal Safari and they are FREAKY looking. But the wierdest thing is the sound they make. It cannot be described.
“In the mid 1920s, Professor Ilya Ivanov began his project, funded by the Soviet government, to hybridize humans and apes by artificial insemination”
Nice. They put this so sweetly and innocently! All in the name of science, right?
NO! This was the work of Stalin who wanted an army with the mind of a humn and the strength of an ape.
I hate the media.
“They left out bonobos though. Who evolved from bonobos? I know, homos did!”
No, that was the hippies.
Wouldn't this fall under the category of a failed example of Intelligent Design?
They did, infection.
He didn’t know how to inject them correctly as we do now. Remember, this is before antibiotic.
The statement is BS, no women died. The female chimpanzees died probably more from the stress of the trip than anything and none were pregnant.
Yes!!!!
You found a new tagline!
Oh, so tie dye came from bonobos? Now I get it.
David Gregory ping.
The joke there is that Blacks are the least gorilla-like (and the least ape-like, generally) of all humans.
LOL. Good one.
I actually ran across this article hte other day when doing some rresearch- Great article, and it’s just shockign the lengths people are willing to go through to try to disprove special creation
[[Oh come on! You never heard of Fay Ray and the big ape that fell for her, King Kong?]
Fay Ray weas hot hot hot-
[[They have those at Pine Mountain Animal Safari and they are FREAKY looking. But the wierdest thing is the sound they make. It cannot be described.]]
Does it sound anyhtign like Rosie odonnel?
I watched that movie a hundred times and never tired of it.
Look at all the Evos waiting in line for more comforting lies! That creationist in the Unpleasant Truths booth needs to get a laptop and help me post more unpleasant articles exposing Derwood’s godless creation myth.
I’ve read a LOT of 19th and early 20th century writings, and the only writings I’ve seen that suggested that humans and apes could interbreed were actually Creationist sources (e.g. Ellen G. White). It was one of several ideas among Creationists as to where the so-called “lower races” came from.
I’m not sure what the Soviets were trying to accomplish with these experiments, but it’s unlikely they were trying to prove Darwinism. For one thing, the USSR was not fond of Darwinism, I think they saw it as too similar to Adam Smith’s ideas. Stalin especially despised Darwinism. In fact, these experiments were going on at a time that both Darwinists and Mendelists were being greatly persecuted, and just before they were outlawed. Such scientists had to escape the USSR or be sent to the Gulag. Things only improved for Darwinism after Stalin’s death.
“One problem is humans have 46 chromosomes—apes 48—and for this reason the chromosomes will not pair up properly even if a zygote is formed. Another problem is a conservatively estimated 40 million base pair differences exist between humans and our putative closest evolutionary relatives, the chimps. These experiments are the result of evolutionary thinking and they failed because their basic premise is false.”
- The article talked about horse and zebra offspring (actually called “zorses”). Some zorses are created from the Przewalski’s wild horse, which has 66 chromosomes compared to the zebra’s 32. A difference of 34 chromosomes and a greater than a 2-1 difference in the number of chromosomes between the populations! Also, rats have 21 pairs of chromosomes compared to the mouse’s 20. We’re also closer genetically to chimpanzees and other apes than mice are to rats. So it’s actually quite difficult to determine of two populations/species can interbreed merely by comparing the genes.
I’m not sure what Ivanov’s “basic premise” was, or what Bergman thinks Ivanov’s basic premise was, but if the “basic premise” was that we are genetically closer to apes than many other populations that can interbreed, than the premise is correct; and it is not a case that “they failed because their basic premise is false” - they failed despite being right, the problem is simply that interfertility was (and still is) somewhat of a mystery.
Marx, Engles, Lenin, Trotsky, and virtually every Soviet leader after Stalin were quite fond of Derwood. And Stalin and Lysenko were only following the scientific fad of the day by repudiating Derwood atheist creation myth and pursuing the so-called Lamarckian heresy instead. And let’s not forget, they were ALL materialist/revolutionary Evos—every last one of them.
PS The person who probably pushed evolutionary capitalism more than any other was Herbert Spencer...and he was a Lamarckian.
Actually, virtually all the scientists in the USSR were Darwinists. I hardly think that Stalin could have cared less what the scientists believed - except that it’s in line with his religion (Communism) - and if it wasn’t in line with Communism, than that’s just too bad for the scientists. And Lysenko was able to convince Stalin and others that Darwinism was not in line with Communism. Lysenko had essentially no backing from other scientists, but he had the backing from the people that mattered in a theocracy - the religious leaders.
(Derwood? Is that a pun from Bewitched? :-) )
I suggest you read a book entitled “The Eclipse of Darwin,” by Peter Bowler (an Evo, bwt). Darwinism almost completely died out amongst the Evo scientists between the late 1800s and the 1930s. Indeed, it got so bad for Darwin’s materialist creation myth, that Huxley coined the phrase that became the title of Bowler’s book to lament the sorry state of Darwinism amongst the Evos at the time. The only thing that saved Darwin was the neo-Darwinian synthesis, which is itself now on the way out, thus forcing the Evos to frantically search for a new-new evolutionary synthesis.
I haven’t read that book, but Julian Huxley had quite a narrow view of what “Darwinism” is. Most of the “other” views were just slight variations of Darwinism (e.g. orthogenetic Darwinism, saltationist Darwinism, etc).
The one real threat to Darwinism was Lamarckism, and there was a resurgence of Lamarckism - but that was around 1880 to 1900. The full title of the book you mention is “The eclipse of Darwinism: anti-Darwinian evolutionary theories in the decades around 1900”. The time period of this article is the late 1920’s, and Lamarckism was soundly defeated by then. There were several reasons for this: 1) The discovery of Mendelism in 1900, which was utterly different than how inheritance should work under Lamarckism 2) von Baer’s theories of embryology were winning out over the rival theories of the neo-Lamarkists (such as those of Haeckel). 3) There were many clear cases of paedomorphosis, which is the very OPPOSITE of Recapitulation (which was so closely allied with Lamarckism at this point that it was almost the same thing) 4) Weismann showed that Lamarckism didn’t work experimentally. And so on.
There were very few places where Lamarkism was viewed as having any respectability in the 1920’s (Germany) and the USSR wasn’t one of them (until Lysenko came around).
Do you think that Stalin and Lysenko were following the scientific fad by repudiating Mendelism?
I may check out that book though, I enjoy reading about the history of science, especially that time period.
BTW, what do you mean by the neo-Darwinian synthesis is on the way out?
yep was a great movie- much better than any of the follow-up ones in my opinion
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