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Wrong Marriage Debate (We are ignoring a bigger societal problem : rising bastardy)
National Review ^ | 5/15/2009 | Mona Charen

Posted on 05/15/2009 6:11:14 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: SeekAndFind

She presents an ‘either/or’ argument, when it is an ‘and’ argument.

When you devalue marriage and family, it becomes more acceptable to skip marriage. When you redefine marriage to cover any perversity, why care about marriage?

I’d also point out it is far easier to stop gay marriage politically, than it is to get lower class females and males to treasure marriage. For lower class blacks and hispanics, and increasingly for whites, the NORM is getting pregnant by the latest boyfriend, whom no one expects to marry or care for anyone.

I’m all for cutting off welfare to unmarried parents. Do you want to guess how many people in America agree with me? You could count them on the fingers of one hand...


21 posted on 05/15/2009 6:42:00 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Everything for Unions, Nothing for Defense!)
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To: wagglebee

agenda ping?


22 posted on 05/15/2009 6:42:13 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain, Pro Deo et Patria)
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To: SeekAndFind

When you have adults with no morals you get children with no morals. It seems alot of kids today have no dreams, no direction, no idea how they are going to support themselves. So the only thing they can do in their life that doesn’t require a lot of effort is start a family. “This baby will love me unconditionaly”. Can’t tell you how often I hear that excuse. So they are raising children with even fewer morals or direction.


23 posted on 05/15/2009 6:44:14 AM PDT by happilymarriedmom
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To: pnh102

Yeah, they actually are married to Uncle Sam. And of course they vote Rat in overwhelming numbers so the goodies don’t stop.


24 posted on 05/15/2009 6:45:05 AM PDT by Kozak (e)
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To: MrB
This is the responsibility of the Church. And the gov’t intentionally pushed the church out of this role.

I agree - and the majority go along with it (and complain), because the alternative is to address morality. Most efforts to prevent pregnancy or childbirth have a limited rate of success, and one reason is that many people (rightly) reject the pro-death contention that pregnancy and children are bad things. It is not a sin to be pregnant, not wrong to give birth.

What is wrong (cue gasps of horror) is engaging in sexual relationships outside marriage, and this is wrong whether or not a child is conceived or born. But "we" as a society can't say that, because that would require addressing our own behavior, instead of that of some "other" group such as teenagers, minorities, immigrants, and so on.

BUT, all that aside, the evidence is clear that the incidence of unmarried childbearing directly correlates with the amount of financial benefit for same. The young women doing this may not be "smart," but they are acting rationally based on their perception of the incentives. When the incentives are changed, the behavior changes as well, even among the least educated and lowest social class.

25 posted on 05/15/2009 6:46:27 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge."~Pr. 14:7)
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To: Slapshot68
it takes about 10 seconds to put on a condom

I think many of the times alcohol and other party favors come into play..young people like to party. Circumstances occur that might of not led to the conclusions as when sober where poor judgment has not gone out the window.

Happens in the stereotypical best of families, not just the poorest.

Has not Obama dismissed abstinence programs?

Comical that the government believes people can make their own judgments in the sex discussion arena, but the Heavens open up, thunder roars and laws are brought to the table, on both state and federal levels, to be HR-Implemented if you eat french fries, drink a soda pop, smoke or eat Cheerios (especially both at the same time!), etc. Even wear a seat belt or helmet. Government's job is to protect the taxpayer and non-taxpayer. ;)


26 posted on 05/15/2009 6:47:15 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: Mr Rogers
I’m all for cutting off welfare to unmarried parents. Do you want to guess how many people in America agree with me? You could count them on the fingers of one hand...

You would be surprised how many people agree with you. I have been saying this for years. Also if you want welfare get a job, or it stops.

27 posted on 05/15/2009 6:47:54 AM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: DYngbld

We get a tax credit for 8 children, too, but that has nothing to do with our decision to have them, rear them, and educate them. The amount certainly isn’t relevant to what we actually spend!

I think that’s a wrong use of the tax system, anyway, and that tax rates and general interference should be lowered for everyone.


28 posted on 05/15/2009 6:50:15 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge."~Pr. 14:7)
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To: SeekAndFind

The US is great for straining out gnats and missing the logs. We let drugs be sold in every town and we worry about talking on the cell phone when one is driving; etc.


29 posted on 05/15/2009 6:51:19 AM PDT by Citizen Tom Paine
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To: Tax-chick

One thing to keep in mind -

rank and file leftists/liberals don’t believe “incentives” have any effect on behavior. “Why” took me a year’s study, so don’t expect it in one post.

It’s just part of their worldview that we have to keep in mind when discussing any issue.


30 posted on 05/15/2009 6:51:41 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: happilymarriedmom
“This baby will love me unconditionally." Can’t tell you how often I hear that excuse.

You could ask them, "Do you love your parents unconditionally, and provide them with all the emotional support they need in their lives? If not, why do you expect a child to do this for you?"

31 posted on 05/15/2009 6:51:57 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge."~Pr. 14:7)
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To: MrB
“Why” took me a year’s study, so don’t expect it in one post.

Thomas Sowell explains it.

32 posted on 05/15/2009 6:53:33 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge."~Pr. 14:7)
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To: Tax-chick

You got it, and that’s substantially where I got it.

I re-read “Conflict of Visions” after a year-long worldview study, and really GOT IT.

The disregard, or even disbelief, in incentives comes from their belief in “tradeoff-free solutions”. Negative behavior in response to the incentives created from one of these “solutions” is a tradeoff, and best ignored or dismissed as not a result of the “solution”.


33 posted on 05/15/2009 6:58:26 AM PDT by MrB (Go Galt now, Bowman later)
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To: SeekAndFind

Why should marriage be respected when it is just something else defined and managed by the gubberment? How many folks respect their welfare checks?

Freegards


34 posted on 05/15/2009 6:59:57 AM PDT by Ransomed (Son of Ransomed Says Keep the Faith!)
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To: SeekAndFind
I'd be interested in studies about the household, not so much the marital status of the parents. Many married parents divorce when the children are quite young. Are those counted and married moms? Parental involement, particularly of the father, varies tremendously when divorce is factored in. In addition, some parents who never marry are nevertheless both active in the the child's life.

I suspect that after the educational level of the parents, the presence (or absence) of two parents in the child's early life is more of the predictor of their economic and social well-being than the martial status at the time of birth of the child.

35 posted on 05/15/2009 7:01:57 AM PDT by YankeeGirl
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To: MrB

I spent four months, iirc (the library let me keep it ;-), with the earlier version, “Knowledge and Decisions.” That was a life-changing book for me, even though I was already a fan of Dr. Sowell’s. He is America’s greatest living intellectual, and I hope he lives to be 112!


36 posted on 05/15/2009 7:03:57 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge."~Pr. 14:7)
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To: Tax-chick
"Wrong Marriage Debate (We are ignoring a bigger societal problem : rising bastardy)"

.

The largest 'Professional Class' failure ever ! Black Clergy ?? ( See Je$$e Jaxson etc etc etc )

37 posted on 05/15/2009 7:09:39 AM PDT by litehaus (A memory tooooo long)
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To: SeekAndFind
“He’s a good dad and a good person, but he’s just not right for me.”

And some folks say there is no culture war.

38 posted on 05/15/2009 7:10:45 AM PDT by Sam's Army
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To: litehaus

Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson does a real number on the “establishment” black religious clique.


39 posted on 05/15/2009 7:11:18 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("Leave the presence of a fool, for there you do not meet words of knowledge."~Pr. 14:7)
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To: Slapshot68

BTTT


40 posted on 05/15/2009 7:11:57 AM PDT by MissNomer (Proud member of FR's "Final 300")
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