Perhaps you are not familiar with the Albanian Waffen SS Division, the 21st Division, which fought alongside the Nazis, and gleefully assisted in the slaughter of Jews and Serbs. (Below: Albanian SS volunteers)
Posted on 04/04/2009 4:02:47 PM PDT by nickcarraway
A mass grave dating from World War II and containing the remains of up to 4,500 people, including German officers and their Croatian allies, has been found near Zagreb, media reports said Saturday.
Bones were found in six caves at Harmica, in the Zapresic region, some 20 kilometres (12 miles) west of the capital, close to the border with Slovenia, newspapers and state television said.
The website of the daily Jutarnji List said they included soldiers of the Croation Ustachi regime allied to the Nazis and some 500 German army officers.
It quoted an official of the Croatian branch of the Helsinki Committee human rights organisation, Ivan Zvonimir Cicak, as saying they were probably members of the German army's 39th Division, which comprised Croatian troops commanded by Germans.
The division surrendered to communist partisans loyal to Josip Broz Tito near the town of Rijeka in early 1945. They appeared to have been executed and their bodies were thrown into the Harmica caves.
(Excerpt) Read more at google.com ...
Murdered by the commies.....
Nazis, Croats and Muslims on one side,
Communists partisans and Soviets on another side,
Serbs and the western allies on another side.
Proof that even Communists can do the right thing some times. Not a whole lot of sympathy here for dead Nazis.
In WWII, nobody was very concerned about taking prisoners in that part of the World
World War II in then Yugoslavia made the Soviet-German front seem civil by comparison.
Nazi's were socialists.. Communists are also socialists..
"WE"(americans) also are now socialists..
If you're going to be outraged be outraged about the right stuff..
Socialism is a murderous political bent..
Socialists murderered about 300 million people in the last century..
God knows how many Billions they made MISERABLE...
They(WE) might murder BILLIONS in this century..
** Italian fascists were also socialists..
You wrote:
“Proof that even Communists can do the right thing some times. Not a whole lot of sympathy here for dead Nazis.”
So, did the Nazis do something right when they murdered already surrendered communists?
bump for later read
The schools some how like to teach that the Nazi’s were right wing. They Commies helped vote Hitler in to power because he was close to their thinking. They planned on bumping him off and taking over. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Sherman said it best: War is cruelty and can not be refined.
Murder is murder.
Seems the Serbian apologists are out in force today.
The Communists had already murdered 30 million in the concentration camps of the Soviet Union during the 1930s before the beginning of WWII. So what is a few more thousand? Just a statistic according to Joseph Stalin.
Nobody said WW II was a neat, clean thing. Refer to General Patton’s notes for proper disposal of both Nazis and Communists.
Good reminder to folks that the Croats, Bosnians and albanians were allies of Hitler.
Can’t be the 39th Division, folks...
AHF lists the 39th as being destroyed at Kursk and the Dniepr River battles, with the remnants being absorbed in to the 106th Division in late 1943.
This is most likely the 369th “Tuefel” Division, a mixed German, Croatian unit, that comprised the 369th and 370th Reinforced Cration Infantry Regiments.
From AHF:
On 17th April the Division’s remnants – described as being a Kampfgruppe of the 369th - arrived in an area north of Brod, as the entire Axis front line fell back towards the west. Sarajevo had been evacuated on the 6th of April, 1945, and Tito’s forces, now over 650,000 strong, were on an offensive everywhere against the weak German and NDH defenders. The remnants of the Division moved with the retreating forces of the NDH westward, hoping to secure a final line of defence around Karlovac (the “Zvonimir” Line), and, once this was abandoned, around the Croatian capital Zagreb.
On the 28th of April, 1945, the entire 370th Infantry Regiment of the 369th Division comprised no more than 515 men, and other regiments of the Division were no better off. On May 6th, 1945, the German military command surrendered control of the Divisional remnants to the Croatian (NDH) Armed Forces in Velika Gorica just south of Zagreb. On May 7th heavy fighting occurred around Ljeskovac and Jastrebarsko near Zagreb, and members of the Division were in the thick of it, attempting to keep open the retreat route towards Austria for Axis forces. On May 8th, remaining members of the Division retreated to Samobor (just west of Zagreb), and on the 9th and 10th joined the columns of the Croatian (NDH) Armed Forces, various collaborationist units from Serbia and Montenegro, as well as masses of civilians attempting to reach Allied (British) troops and surrender, expecting better treatment at the hands of the Western Allies than at the hands of Tito’s Communist troops.
It would appear that members of the Division split up in this time period, as reports of surrender by units of the 369th are reported at various locations in Slovenia and Austria after May 10th. For example, on May 11th, 1945, elements of the 369th ‘Devils’ Division are reported to have surrendered and were disarmed by the British 6th Armoured Division between Loricica and Prosenisko. According to the memoirs of Milan Basta, a Political Commissar in the NOVJ, a battalion strength force of the 369th reached the Austrian border west of Dravograd on May 16th, 1945, scaring the wits out of the weak local detachment of the NOVJ as it moved to surrender to British forces. Members of the Division are also reported to have surrendered at Bleiburg, Austria, where the majority of the Croatian Armed Forces troops laid down their arms on May 15th, 1945.
Altogether, 160 Officers and 2,876 NCO’s and men managed to surrender to the British. Their relief at not having fallen into Partisan (or even Soviet hands) was, however, short-lived. The British forces, in an act of apparent deceit, retribution, or possibly simple ignorance, had promised the Croats that they would be given asylum in Italy if they surrendered peacefully. Instead, they were promptly handed over to Tito’s Communist Partisans - the terribly predictable outcome being that most of them were brutally executed. Most members of the 369th shared the fate of their NDH comrades-in-arms.
The last Commander of the 369th, Lt. General Neidholt, survived the war, but was extradited to Yugoslavia and tried by a military court in Belgrade for alleged massacres of civilians and other atrocities committed by his men. Neidholt was sentenced to death, and hanged on 27th February 1947; with him finally perished the last of the 369th Division.
“Seems the Serbian apologists are out in force today.”
Hey MD, I hear this will be the new Croatian national hymn!
Issat right.
That is, it seems that certain individuals (around here) that like to demonize Serbs are out and about today too.
isnt that 100 million dead - I can see 300 million casualties tho.
why is it that the mass graves are always people murdered by Commies?
War is nothing - but murder raised to a level sufficient to kill enough of the enemy to frighten the survivors into surrender.
Nothing more, nothing less...
All the "niceties" and "rules of war" that sound grand, righteous and humane in a class room, Sunday School or Court Room have significantly reduced impact or importance after a few weeks of fighting for one's life or finding the mutilated body of a captured and tortured brother..
Then it becomes something all together different....
It then frequently becomes murder with a purpose and with no small measure of relish...
That is when it REALLY becomes dangerous...
Or, so I've heard.
NO... Russians(Stalin etc). killed tens of million RUSSIANS..
Mao may have out done him.. Communism has been tried in many countrys with resulting death counts.. No body knows exactly how many have been murdered.. the numbers are estimated DOWN... the real figure blows normal peoples minds...
Second to murder the misery index of communism(socialism) has not been tabulated yet.. Possibly cannot even BE tabulated.. Google up "democide".. Proper figures have been tried to count.. No doubt low counts..
Keep your eye on the people that think LESS humans on this planet are good for the "earth"..Usually they are socialists also.. Socialist have no problem with "liquidating" a couple of million OR billion people..
“War is nothing - but murder raised to a level sufficient to kill enough of the enemy to frighten the survivors into surrender.”
Word is that Genghis Khan used to march right up to a city, send in someone, and tell the city that if they gave up then, he’d spare them (an exact taxes, take stuff, etc, etc). But if they didn’t accept his terms, he’d kill them all.
There is nothing left of Merv, which held the largest library in that part of the world.
He also burnt the Alexandria library to the ground, too, along with most of Alexandria.
“Your point. Their village.” (”Doctor Zhivago”)
So murder is OK, if the victims are "Nazis"?
Interesting theory.
Did you know that the Commies murdered up to 40,000 Polish officers during the early days of WWII? Maybe some of the Poles were "Nazi sympathizers", or had names that were similar to Nazi names. Or maybe they had Nazi friends, or relatives, or maybe even knew some Nazis personally.
Murder appears to be a bad habit of Commies in general.
You realize it's going to start up here fairly soon, don't you? They tend to return to their bad habits, like a dog to its own vomit...
At least, that's what Obama's media will tell everyone...
Just a bunch of Freepers who dare to speak the truth, Chumley.
Not counting the ones we found in Iraq, you mean?
I think they would be deeply honored.
agreed.
This happened AFTER the war ended. As did the murder of millions of German and ethnic German civilians in the east.
Perhaps that is the case and timing....
If memory servers, Germany was the agressor who started the war.
Both times...
Germany went to great lengths to murder MILLIONS of “innocent civilians” and “undesirables” taken captive.
Yes - they raised killing prisoners to a black science.
Folks who start wars and behave badly, need to be certain of winning...
Because when they lose — payback is going to be a bitch.
Any man who kicks a dog, should remain silent when the dog bites back.
Revenge is a act nearly impossible to restrain.
“The schools some how like to teach that the Nazi’s were right wing. “
It was the National Socialist Party
Yep, but the liberals keep claiming it right wing. Just heard Ron Reagan call the Taliban right wing. Simply amazing.
Perhaps you are not familiar with the Albanian Waffen SS Division, the 21st Division, which fought alongside the Nazis, and gleefully assisted in the slaughter of Jews and Serbs. (Below: Albanian SS volunteers)
In 1944 the Serbian Volunteer Corps became part of the SS. They also killed Jews.
There was even a Serbian Gestapo.
On the other hand, it seems every 3rd Croat I meet or ever at least every other Albanian I meet is very proud to tell of their WWII affiliation with the Axis. I'm guessing the Nedic crew was very tiny and more or less just some sort of bizarre symbolic group used by the occupying Nazis.
Every Serb I've ever met hates the nazis with a passion.
So Croat nazis murdered by Croat commies... swell.
Plenty of mass graves populated by victims murdered by Muslims and Nazis too.
Sherman never slaughtered several thousand surrendered Confederate soldiers.
Not exactly. GK himself never got closer than Samarkand.
Even his descendants never made it into Egypt. Closest they got was near Jericho, where the Mamelukes clobbered them.
The Taliban is right wing. It wants to impose a reactionary ancient system on people. That is exactly what the original "right wing," the reactionary aristos of 1789 France, wanted to do.
What is inappropriate is to apply the term "right wing," based in reactionary absolutism, to American conservatives, who are trying to conserve classical liberalism, an ideology as opposite to reactionary absolutism as can be imagined.
To be fair, the reactionary absolutism dreamed of by the Taliban isn't that of Louis XVII, but it's a whole lot closer to it than to American conservatism.
I never learned it that way, but your comments warrant merit. Interesting. My original understanding was that Ibn Khadun interviewed Genghis Khan in Alexandria, where GK had burned the library. I see my original understanding must now be considered from older research, indicating various possibilities, including Roman and Muslim burning of the library. I do have vague recollection of the Mongol/Muslim battle of Ain Jalut though, in what is now Israel (I think). So much for university training—but that was a while ago. Well, quite a while ago.
http://www.bede.org.uk/Library2.htm
http://www.historyofjihad.org/mongolia.html
There’s a whole bunch of opinions on when the Library was destroyed.
Given the constant fighting and rioting going on in Alexandria for more than six centuries, it is unlikely there were a lot of books left for the Muslims, the most frequently blamed, to burn.
However, one group that can’t be blamed is the Mongols. They did a whole bunch of bad stuff, including killing somewhere in the vicinity of 10% of the world’s population at the time, by far the greatest killing prior to the 20th century. Huge regions of Central and SW Asia have never fully recovered, even after almost a thousand years.
But they didn’t destroy the Library.
Ibn Khaldun lived 1332 to 1406. It’s therefore highly unlikely he interviewed GK, who lived c. 1162 to 1207.
No doubt there are many Nazi graves - but there seems to be more communist mass graves - think Katyn, Laos, Ukraine.
The first genocide of the 20th century was an islamic one perpetrated by Muslim Turk monsters in Asia Minor—over 3 million dead.
Yes, but the commies seem to have mass burials down pat - it has to do with their very good track record of obfuscation - most still dont know they killed 100 million in the last century.
It could be argued that islam is the precursor to the other secular materialist and Marxist ideologies and are participants in a debate about how the world as a whole is to be governed.
Lenin and Hitler learned from the muslims esp Turk Muslims how to mass murder those who will not bow down.
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