Posted on 03/21/2009 1:02:49 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
The Permian Extinction: Good Science, Bad Assumptions
by Brian Thomas, M.S.*
Ninety percent of marine and 70 percent of terrestrial creatures perished suddenly in an event variously called the Permian extinction, the Permian–Triassic (P-Tr) extinction, or the Great Dying. The calamity’s cause, referred to as the K-T event, remains unknown, even though asteroid impact has been in vogue.
At least, this is the account that has been repeated for several decades. Now, a recently-published study is showing that evidence of the Permian extinction is not limited to a single rock stratum.1 The whole story must be rewritten...
(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...
Ping!
I’m gonna go with asteroid on this one. Second choice is global warming.
==I’m gonna go with asteroid on this one. Second choice is global warming.
Why not a global flood?
1. Asteroid.
2. Global Warming.
3. Great Flood.
4. Lack of Regulation.
They had it right the first time. The k-t event was the cretaceous-tertiary and is a different extention event than the Permiam-Triassic. The k-t was 65ma and ended the reign of the dinos.
Oh, after reading the source it is apparent why they don’t distinguish between events that occurred almost 200ma apart.
Oh, after reading the source it is apparent why they don’t distinguish between events that occurred almost 200ma apart.
"Ninety percent of marine and 70 percent of terrestrial creatures perished suddenly"
Marine creatures would have survived, and land critters would have died.
This killed plenty of both, indeed even more marine creatures than land creatures died. This is opposite of what anyone who thinks it through would expect from a flood.
Native global flood stories are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth. Old world missionaries reported their amazement at finding remote tribes already possessing legends with tremendous similarities to the Bible’s accounts of the worldwide flood. H.S. Bellamy in Moons, Myths and Men estimates that altogether there are over 500 Flood legends worldwide. Ancient civilizations such as (China, Babylonia, Wales, Russia, India, America, Hawaii, Scandinavia, Sumatra, Peru, and Polynesia) all have their own versions of a giant flood.
For more, plus very interesting table (a little further down), see:
http://www.nwcreation.net/noahlegends.html
So does New Orleans.
The Flood was so violent and so much more massive than most conceive of, let alone accept, that the sudden burial of sea creatures beneath muddy waves of gargantuan proportions is nearly impossible to understand unless one understands the dynamics of the Flood.
Isn’t the Chinese pictograph for “flood” a boat (or vessel) plus the symbol for eight people (literally “mouths”)?
Were Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed in a flood?
I pity one who worships an all powerful God, while blandly insisting that he can only function in one narrowly defined way...
Dunno. I only know a few characters.
Let me ping a native speaker...
==So does New Orleans
Not just flood stories, but flood stories that closely match the biblical flood story, complete with warning from God, ark, global flood, etc.
Oh, come on now! New Orleans was warned by NOAA!
That's so true - don't mess with hydraulics! Drive a Prius through 3 - 4" of fast moving water and see what happens...
I have no idea. If you have a link for that, it would be most appreciated!
You get it in the shorts?
http://www.lookinguntojesus.net/20070311.htm
This is as close as I can come, right now.
I’m off to church!
Oh, come on guys... I just grabbed the first small car name I had in short term memory. Ok, drive any 3,000 lb passenger car thru a few inches of fast running water and you’ll experience the power of a flood (no, I have no direct experience). Scale that up to a global flood and it’s easy to see how vast portions of marine life could be buried / annihilated since most life is close to the surface and not too far from major land masses.
Amen.
{Just a little humor on my part.}
Now I’m late for church!!
Nah!
It happened before 1/20/09 so you guessed it...
IT’S BUSH’S FAULT!
Different rocks are forming at the same time. A sandstone can be forming at the same time as a limestone or a shale.
It dpends on the local depositional environment.
What would be odd is if the Permian extinction was found in only one particular type of rock. It should be found in all rocks formed during that period.
And it is.
Some of those flood traditions are listed in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, easily accessed on-line.
But where do you think all the water came from? I know. We’ve discussed this before but not in connection with The Deluge, as I recall.
Well we know that the fountains of the great deep opened, we also know that it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and I have also read speculation that comets may have also been involved. Where do you think all the water came from?
There was a .. what would you call it,, a vapor canopy that surrounded the Earth, and all that water came crashing down,, least thats what I’ve thought anyway...
No. Feel free to confirm here.
Where was this drain that the floodwaters flowed into so that dry land could be exposed again?
Remember, to flood the earth, we need water over 5 miles higher than the current sea level.
I wonder what Mr. Thomas's MS is in, and where he got it?
"Pursuant to California and Federal law, ICRGS currently offers an M.S. in Science Education, mostly online, to qualified students who are not Texas residents. ICR is currently examining its legal options regarding how it can best serve the educational 'gaps' of Texas residents."
I'ma gonna buy my own .edu domain and give myself a master's degree so I can start dropping post-nominals on my sig line.
Caesar Soze, MSBS
The Permian/Triassic boundary is correct. There was also a Jurassic/Cretaceous boundary and then a Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary.
This article ridiculously spins the already known and predictable facts about the Permian extinction, but I think it’s at least talking about the correct geologic era.
My ex-wife micropaleontologist is working on the P-T boundary, and this new info that the extinction spanned a long time period is electrifying the world-wide paleontology community in a positive way, pointing them to exciting new research and ideas. But I’m sorry, they aren’t huddled in a atheistic conspiracy to keep any mention of Noah’s Flood out of consideration - just like NTSB accident investigators aren’t in a consipiracy to prevent Satan from being considered as a possible cause of air crashes.
Hmmm...I just reread the article, and wouldn’t ya know it, the author didn’t mention the word “conspiracy” once. He said this new discovery is good science marred by bad assumptions. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Well, the apostle Peter said that there was an earth standing in the midst of water and out of water and by those (notice the phrase) means the world of that time suffered destruction.
I think the “water above the expanse” of Gen. 1:8 is that water that fell during the Deluge and which Peter talks about. (2 Peter 3:5,6)
Interesting verse:
2 Peter 3:5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
This is one of the verses that Dr. Humphreys bases his white hole cosmology on, in which he proposes that God may have created the Earth (and possibly the entire Universe of stars and planets) out of water :o)
So, remember just as glaciers push down the land under them so might water in sufficient quantities and who says the mountains and sea levels had the same height differential before the Deluge as now?
Right. And the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are mentioned both BEFORE and AFTER the Flood.
Like the rest of the world changed dramatically, but those two rivers weren’t affected.
“Flood” is comprised of total and water but, in turn “total” is comprised of eight, united and earth.
Most interesting!
And, remember, these ancient pictographs were developed BEFORE moses transcribed Genesis!
Yes, I think I vaguely recall a Dr. Humphreys.
Peter’s comment about “by those means” I wanted to call your attention to. “by those means”? What means? The water that the earth had above the expanse and those beneath the expanse, the “flood gates of the heavens and the springs of the watery deep” of Gen. 7:11.
If poetical expression is preferred see Job 38:9, wherein Job gets an attitude adjustment as God explains He put a ‘cloud around the earth like a swaddling blanket’ as He recounts Gen.1:6,7.
Please note that Peter is not suggesting the earth is composed of water but rather that earth stood both out of the water and in the water as the next verse shows.
Who said those two rivers were not affected? Not the Bible. Not me nor anyone else that I know of. By the description in Genesis the topology of the land was greatly changed.
Being called by the same name BEFORE and AFTER the flood is hardly surprising as we called rivers that have changed dramatically by their best known name.
The Mississippi has changed its course over the years. But we still refer to it by the same name although the river of today is far different than pre-Columbus.
Apparently you did not read the account in Genesis any too closely, right?
Wrong. I’ve read it many times.
You want it both ways. You want the earth’s surface to be dramatically changed by a flood five miles deep, but you want two rivers to be recognizable afterward.
I have a hunch you want the Grand Canyon to be caused by the Flood instead of the accepted scientific explanation, right?
You didn't read his post correctly.
For example, I've gone fossil hunting in a town near London, on the Thames river.
In Ontario.
I’d be more convinced if you went fossil hunting on the Tigris near Baghdad, Alberta.
Thanks for the ping!
I said nothing about a five mile deep flood, that's your assertion, not mine. And dramatic change does not mean something would be unrecognizable OR that perhaps one place might not be changed as much as another OR that the same name would be given to a newly formed river in the same general area.
Who knows on what basis the Tigris and Euphrates were called such after the Deluge? They were and the Bible is silent on the how and why. Probably because it really is of no importance.
Grand Canyon? I have no certain idea what made it, evidently a variety of processes were involved. “the accepted scientific explanation,” is as much a guess as an explanation.
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