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Hmmm...
Posted on 03/19/2009 10:03:24 AM PDT by Fractal Trader
Shell will no longer invest in renewable technologies such as wind, solar and hydro power because they are not economic, the Anglo-Dutch oil company said today. It plans to invest more in biofuels which environmental groups blame for driving up food prices and deforestation.
Executives at its annual strategy presentation said Shell, already the world's largest buyer and blender of crop-based biofuels, would also invest an unspecified amount in developing a new generation of biofuels which do not use food-based crops and are less harmful to the environment.
The company said it would concentrate on developing other cleaner ways of using fossil fuels, such as carbon capture and sequestration (CCS) technology. It hoped to use CCS to reduce emissions from Shell's controversial and energy-intensive oil sands projects in northern Canada.
The company said that many alternative technologies did not offer attractive investment opportunities. Linda Cook, Shell's executive director of gas and power, said: "If there aren't investment opportunities which compete with other projects we won't put money into it. We are businessmen and women. If there were renewables [which made money] we would put money into it."
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
So I guess that everything that Obama is going to proposer is unprofitable.
“So I guess that everything that Obama is going to proposer is unprofitable. “
Yep. And the biofuels that Shell will continue invensting in will drive up the price of food. WHERE ARE MY NUKES?
Just because an investment isn’t attractive, is that reason for not doing research? Who is going to bite the bullet when it comes to actually trying to research fuels other than bio or petro?
And the reason why is that you can store biofuels.
You can’t store the energy created by wind and solar sources quite so easily... unless we’re talking of using biomass as a solar power capture method.
Hey - without biofuels, how else are we gonna starve the poor and hungry and minorities and women and children and polar bears?
Least now we ain’t gonna be choppin’ up no birds ....
“WHERE ARE MY NUKES?”
I’ve never seen a period of time in my life when virtually every logical and common sense solution is completely ignored and total idiocy is embraced instead.
Biofuels aren’t just ethanol. BioDiesel is probably the biggest one, and can come from biological waste products. And, even if they do focus on ethanol, it can be made from sugarcane a la Brazil, which crop is much less costly and less related to food production.
>And the reason why is that you can store biofuels.
Personally I *like* the idea of BioDiesel... Diesel itself is a superior fuel to gasoline in many applications, vehicles most notably. BoiDiesel could be made to work off of byproducts of our food industry, like when you open a can of chili or somesuch and see that the fat’s all been separated and floating on top. You know that they must have some excesses of fats that they’re getting rid of, why not process those waste-products into BioDiesel? (The same with used cooking oils from fast-food places and such.)
Why spend money researching something that is a waste of time?
If round wheels work just fine, why spend money to study ways to use square ones?
Wind/solar are stupid ideas that will never work on a large scale. It would take a battery the size of Europe to store it.
This will have an impact on the ability of wind farms under development to find an investor, purchse turbines, and then move to construction/operation. Especially with many other investors on the sidelines due to their inability to use PTCs and MACRS depreciation (no taxable income, no need for tax credits).
Well, they could get some reeeeeally big capacitors - make that lots and lots of reeeeeeally big capacitors . . . .
“You can’t store the energy created by wind and solar sources quite so easily”
Sure you can. By using 100% of them as they are available, you do not need to use the water behind a dam, saving it for when it is required.
....Bob
This guy does.
bookmark for later.
I would think it may be viable on a small individual basis, but anyway, what do we do, just leave it to the future generations to fix? Seems like we should be doing our part.
I think there is a lot of potential in the conversion of algae to diesel. Any idiot can grow algae with sunlight and water. I understand that the conversion of algae to diesel is relatively easy.
just wondering, why can’t ‘bio-fuels’ be made from grass clippings and then ‘non-food’ portions of food crops and the like?
a lot more green growing stuff goes into waste then the food produced by it
“Executives at its annual strategy presentation said Shell, already the world’s largest buyer and blender of crop-based biofuels, would also invest an unspecified amount in developing a new generation of biofuels which do not use food-based crops and are less harmful to the environment.
The company said it would concentrate on developing other cleaner ways of using fossil fuels, such as carbon capture and sequestration (CCS) technology. It hoped to use CCS to reduce emissions from Shell’s controversial and energy-intensive oil sands projects in northern Canada.”
The headline is misleading. It sounds like they are going to continue some biofuels work but the main focus will be on cleaner use of fossil fuels. And for what its worth, biofuels is NOT a very cost effective option when oil is less than a $150/barrel. Nor can it be scaled up adequately to meet more than a small % of our liquid fuel demands.
I have just returned from a long trip on which I purchased Shell diesel fuel several times. They have a new campaign, nitrogen additives in all gasoline.
The nitrogen program must be part of this effort. What does the nitrogen do?
Sheesh! I had to look up who that guy was.
Wife Swap is not among my viewing favorites. (never watched it or heard of Stephen Fowler before now).
Yikes — what an A$$!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGXHXy4GVSw
.......Just because an investment isn’t attractive, is that reason for not doing research? .....
Recall if you will the decade of the 70’s. All the alternative energy sources we hear about today and many many more we don’t, have been incentivised, granted and researched to death. The research has been done already and found to lead nowhere.
That certainly does work — where you’re close enough to the hydro dams to schedule the loads appropriately.
The biggest wind power states are in the area east of the Rockies, tho — southeast (or southern) WY, ND, SD, MN, etc. Not much hydro in the area for storage.
So we stop research, and dump it on our grandkids and their kids?
If little things like keeping your kids fed and a roof over their heads is important to you, it's all the reason in the world.
You seem confused about business. The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is not to engage in expeditions down blind alleys.
It is apparently not in the business interest of Shell to poke around under rocks and pour money down rat holes. In another post I mentioned Shell has developed new nitrogen gasoline additives. That took research.
They need not invest in nuclear technology either. That has been done by GE and Westinghouse/Toshiba who are in the electricity generation business.
If there are profitable avenues for research, someone will do it. Shell has elected to stay to it’s business.
You can’t build windmills, as they “hurt birds”. You can’t build hydro plants as they “hurt fish”. Solar is only efficient during a clear day, and doesn’t work at night (Supplemental only). What else is Shell to do? They have to remain profitable.
I’m just wondering how much the cost of transportation will be for our kids kids.
I understand business, but I also have concerns for our future generations. Which is more important?
Right. If organizations that do have a lot of money do not do the research, who will?
“...a new generation of biofuels which do not use food-based crops and are less harmful to the environment.”
Shell Green is people!
Just wait...
Your statements are confused. If you insist on condemning Shell to research on subjects that are not their business, you don’t understand business.
Their business is oil, not pie in the sky. That is to be left for others, for the market. May be they will succeed or maybe they will fail but that is not the concern of Shell.
Have you invested your money in alternative energy? Why not?
“Congress’s ethanol mandate rises to 36 billion gallons ethanol by 2020, which would consume more than 100% of US corn crop...if made from corn.”
I think nearly everyone realizes that ethanol from corn is not practical or cost efficient. Thats why there is push toward feedstocks such as grasses and waste cellulose. The problem is that there are many techical hurdles as well as the enormous volume of material that must be processed. Plus it simple cannot compete with something you can just pump out of the ground and distill.
If you question why others are doing costly research, I ask why don’t you commit some money to do such research. What you suggest is nothing but a variant of “not in my backyard”.
I wouldn’t call what I said a condemnation.
How would the market fund alternative energy research? Surely not through donations. It will have to be done by corporations with deep pockets or governments. We would all certainly complain about more taxes for research. I would hope that there would be a shred of altruism somewhere within some of the big energy conglomerates.
I don’t have enough money to invest in alternative energy, unless the few mutual funds I do have are doing it.
If I had enough money to be noticeable, I probably would. They can do any research they want in my backyard, it’s not very big though.
Right.
I am going to be as nice as I can here.
1. If you believe “alternative energy” sources might be good for you to use, DO IT. I have 20 acres. There running water some of the year. There is wind some of the year. There is solar some of the year. I’ve looked into all of these. The PAYBACK period for using these sources of energy is in excess of their useful lifetime. EG- It is NOT economical for ME to do. YOU may be in an area or have resources that are better than mine. CHECK IT OUT! DO THE CALCULATIONS! If it looks possible, go for it! If YOU and the millions of “you”s out there just wonder about it and don’t DO the calculations, and if it looks good for you don’t do it, something must not be right! I’ve looked into it for me, not for you.
I’ve found that there just is NOT enough energy in my stream, or wind, to make it worth the cost of the equipment that is available, even with subsidies, after the cost of maintenance and other total lifetime costs are included. The same goes with solar, though in some ways I can see a possibility of viability there IF the efficiencies and LIFETIME and MAINTENANCE of solar equipment was MUCH better than it is. The most likely concept I’ve found right now that I might someday be able to supply my own energy is by making a special bacteria-seeded pond that will create hydrogen or methane. There is plenty of research being done on this concept.
2. Many promising concepts for “alternative energy use” have been and are being researched by thousands of companies. Most of them have been a waste of billions of dollars, possibly trillions. The most viable of those are STILL not economical, and require “subsidies” in order to even get close. Some are still being researched, because the companies doing the research HOPE that they can get at least some of their money back. Possibly, they think they are on the edge of a breakthrough that will actually prove substantially profitable for them! Most of those hopes will fail. Most of the “promise” of “just around the horizon” will never occur. I keep hearing about marvelously efficient solar electric, but the research has not kept up with the promise.
3. You are welcome to do RESEARCH on your own into new energy. Brainstorm! Be creative! IF you are fortunate enough to discover a new method of creating energy, YOU will get the fruits of that discovery! Don’t complain about some company not doing it! They are leaving it open for YOU! YOU can do it! YOU will get wealthy beyond your dreams if you succeed! YOU will save the future generations, and have schools named after you!
4. There “venture capitalists” who constantly fund companies with wild ideas. They hope that one out of ten of their investments will earn a hundred times their investment in profits. The way our stupid tax codes are now set up have made such research prohibitively stupid for a company like Shell or GE to do. That does NOT mean the research isn’t being done - it is done by other smaller companies set up for the sole purpose of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. If YOU have an idea, YOU can EASILY attract the funding from the venture capitalists, and share the profits with them! I will support your getting exceedingly wealthy doing this! I honestly hope you succeed in doing it!
For ME, helping “Future Generations” means extolling the virtues of coal, letting them know that CO2 is GOOD for us not bad, and NUCLEAR POWER.
Please, do check out the possibilities for YOU, and if you find something is economically viable for people you know but not for you, consider becoming a sales representative for the equipment and earn yourself some commissions!
Why do you start off saying you’re going to be as nice as you can?
I probably should have removed that sentence. I apologize.
Why didn’t you?
When our government starts throwing around trillions of dollars like they are nothing, do you have the same concern for the future generations? A 11 trillion dollar debt right now, more than 1 trillion dollar deficit per year as far as the eye can see.
You’re worried that a private company is not investing in your favorite pipe dream energy source? Why? If your future generations have 100% solar and wind power, but zero freedom or liberty, will their lives be worth living?
Transportation will be via shoe leather or pack animals if you are wealthy. Floating goods down the Missouri, Mississippi and Ohio rivers might come back.
Yes, I do have the same concerns for the future. I do not like the idea that our govt is going to have to depend on future generations, to get us out of a number of the messes we are in now, the energy mess being just one of them.
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