Well, if they wern't being disorderly, why arrest them?
Posted on 03/13/2009 8:02:53 AM PDT by GonzoII
Attorneys with the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) filed a lawsuit Monday against officials of Pennsylvania's Kutztown University and its police chief. The officials punished a police officer who refused to arrest a group of Christians sharing their faith on campus.
Steven Armbruster was ordered by K.U. Police Chief William Mioskie to remove the group of Christians from campus for "disorderly conduct." Armbruster, who said he saw no evidence of disorderly conduct by the Christians, explained to Mioskie that he believed this would violate the group's constitutional rights. Armbruster was placed on administrative leave, suspended without pay for five working days and threatened with termination.
(Excerpt) Read more at citizenlink.org ...
Well, if they wern't being disorderly, why arrest them?
gnip...
Good for the cop.
Its about time a cop shows the courage to do his job instead of what he is told to do. I didn’t buy the “just following orders” thing before and I don’t buy it now.
This:
sharing their faith on campus
might have something to do with it.
Is the police chief also Christian?
So——what were they doing? Seems that more information is needed here.
The good cops in Germany made good Gestapo when Hitler took over. They did their job as told... even when wrong.
Because the administration did not like the message so they tried to oust the messengers. Part of the secularists war on Christians. IMHO
He’s worried about his job.
Mr. Armbruster needs to get a better job;
and hire a good lawyer...
But is he Christian?
**sharing their faith on campus**
The he should have SHOT THEM ALL right there.
He better get with the thought police program. Big brother is boss now.
Jesus said if they hated me, they will always hate you...
No one can *Serve* two Masters.....
You are not of this world, so they will hate and persecute you..
But you belong to me, and your treasures are in heaven
Jesus..
Thank you LORD!
Truly, a policeman's lot is not a happy one. Not only must the policeman instantly judge whether there is actual disorderly activity going on but he must instantly judge whether that activity is in pursuance of a politically correct goal.
As a matter of fact, the Politzei and the Gestapo were kept pretty separate, the latter opperating more or less like our FBI. The court system also continued to operate the same. The difference was the laws being enforced. Here lies the rub: the law is unjust.
Off campus groups are generally not allowed to come on campus to use it as a forum unless they are invited. College students are a lot less polite than they used to be.
When the Scientologists came on campus and held a “revival” after the Virginia Tech shooting, a near riot broke out.
"sharing their faith on campus."
One set of laws for me, another for thee.
The "just following orders" defense is central to suppression and Dictators consolidating power. Someone has to stand up and say "NO", like this police officer.
I have full respect for the Law.
I think this Officer is to be commended at any rate for respecting his conscience.
No doubt a policeman's job is not easy.
Kutztown University
Public Safety & Police Services
PO Box 730
Kutztown, PA 19530
Phone: 610-683-4002
FAX: 610-683-1530
Email Address: publicsafety@kutztown.edu
LET THEM KNOW HOW YOU FEEL!!!!
If the group were Muslims, no one would have interfered with them.
1936 the Polizei and Gestapo were both put under Himmlers control. The equivalent to the FBI would rather have been the Kripo (Criminal Police).
Good for the cop. People are going to realize, which I am sure many already do, that in the oath for Military and Police services you swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America not your “orders.”
I wish there was a way to contact him and tell him to keep up the good work.
What a hero. Im proud of him. Disorderly conduct has a specific legal definition. The truth here is that they did not like the content of the speech. Where can we support him or express displeasure with the Chief.
Why is it so hard for so many to say "not my will, but thy will" when speaking to God, but find it so easy when speaking to worldly authorities?
See post #23.
None of those groups should be automatically arrested, if they are not breaking any laws. Counter-demonstrators can be civil (although they commonly aren't). The same goes for all of the other groups, except for the segregated lunch-counter sit in (where their presence broke an unjust law).
The officer didn't see any disorderly conduct. If there wasn't disorderly conduct, then an arrest under this charge breaks off into harassment.
I should send him an application for my dept..
Thanks sir
http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a4_5kutztown.6810995mar11,0,6012153.story
Armbruster, a corporal with the university police department, was temporarily suspended after the April 18, 2007, protest organized by RepentAmerica, according to his attorney, Randall Luke Wenger of Harrisburg.
Students and university officials said at the time that the evangelistic group showed up unexpectedly in Schaeffer Quad to rail against gays, Jews, Catholics and abortion.
Hundreds of angry students confronted the demonstrators. Police officers kicked the group off the campus and charged three people with disorderly conduct.
According to the lawsuit:
Armbruster told university Police Chief William F. Mioskie that pushing the demonstrators off campus was unconstitutional. Armbruster believes he was disciplined for speaking out and for failing to follow Mioskie's order to remove a disorderly demonstrator, whom Armbruster did not think was acting disorderly.
Armbruster was suspended for five days without pay for failing to carry out a direct order, and lost about $600 in wages. He has a disciplinary letter on file........
Still rather vague what exactly entailed the disorderly conduct, but this group does appear to have been looking for trouble, so I would wait for more information before making this guy into some kind of martyr.
I would need more information to make an intelligent judgment. My daughters attend a university in Oklahoma, and they have a policy that requires groups/individuals to get a permit to do things like this. On the surface, stories like these gripe me, but as a parent of 2 daughters in college, I do want the University officials to take prudent steps to protect the students. My questions would be did the group/individual follow protocol? Were they discriminated against because of their beliefs? The same questions would apply to the officer.—JM
I believe when the Gestapo was formed they got most of their people from the police force of the various sections of Germany. I might be wrong on that. If so let me know as I enjoy reading about anything regarding WW2. Once formed then the two groups were separate as you mentioned.
A "preventative" measure.....
Thankfully, the officer on the scene did the right thing.
You are correct. Kripo actually remained a more or less a nonparty organization. IAC. the average citizen would have noticed very little difference. For him Nazism was a soft tyranny. All he had to do was keep quiet and leave the business of politics of the Party. That is after the rough patch of 1933-34 when heads were rolling.
Did they have a permit? Is this appropriate for a college campus?
Seems to me that it's a bit dicey, but maybe more info will be forthcoming.
Shortly after one member of the group was arrested, Armbruster became concerned when Mioskie ordered the officers to "push" others in the group off campus for "disorderly conduct." Armbruster understood that this would involve arresting or threatening to arrest the rest of the group upon whom the protesters had descended, though he saw no evidence of disorderly conduct among the members of the Christian group."
snip..
After hearing the evidence, the court dismissed the charges against members of the Christian group who were arrested.
Source: Source: ADF
It think they were a counter to the more thiggish SA headed by Roehm. By some accounts, they were not nearly as brutal as Hollywood would have one believe. Even Jews were treated with some consideration.
Personally it was mixed. There were SD members who were at the same time Kripo or Gestapo. And Policemen were often also part of the SS. These units weren't personally that separate.
The background of Gestapo and SD members was overproportionally young lawyers and jurists.
Thanks - That sheds more light on the subject. While academia and PC police depts. earn our scorn, rightfully in many instances, I do like to be fair. Good University and law-enforcement people have a tough job, and a fine line to walk. Seem as though in this case our anger is well placed. Thanks for the link.—JM
Pennsylvania. Of course.
The fascist leftwing communists of the democrat party, like their forerunners the nazi brownshirts, are continuing there cruel attack on Christians and Conservatives in their foolishness and hatred of all who love God, Family, and country.
God will bring them into subjection in His time by Jesus Christ our Lord and they will bow the knee and confess to Lord Jesus that He is Lord indeed.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.
Unfortunately, this will be at the White Throne Judgment when the unjust and unforgiven dead will be judged for their sins and cast into the lake of fire for not believing how Jesus Christ died for our sins and rose again the third day for our justification.
The children of pride will receive the due reward of their cruel hatred of God and His Christ.
Thanks. I have been watching a program on Hitlers bodyguards that was on a few weeks ago Very interesting!
“...was ordered by K.U. Police Chief William Mioskie to remove the group of Christians from campus for “disorderly conduct.”
-They were BREATHING on PUBLIC property!!! Those nasty, ugly, CHRISTIANS!!!
DING!
Yeah, it was the THREE people loudly saying something unpopular. The disorder was certainly not the crowd of thug college students. And it was the students who say they said the Christians were there to “rail” at gays etc.
Reverse it,, three gays or muslims show up there to start promoting their garbage to passersby, and are confronted by a large angry group from the student christian organization. Please don’t be dishonest and say the gays or muslims would have been arrested for causing the christians to become enraged.
Permits, to hand out literature, or make a speech,,in the common area, of a public property. I missed that in the first amendment. Free speech zones have been shot down in court. The whole campus is a free speech zone.
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