Posted on 03/13/2009 7:14:05 AM PDT by marktwain
BOISE, Idaho — An Idaho gun shop that went to federal court to keep the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from pulling its gun license has reached a settlement with the agency.
Terry and Ryan Horsley of Red's Trading Post in Twin Falls asked the court to review their case in 2007, after the ATF revoked their license. The ATF said the shop had repeatedly violated gun sales rules. The Horsleys said they had been targeted by the agency and that most of the problems were clerical, such as using abbreviations on gun sale documentation.
Red's Trading Shop attorney Christopher Chiafullo wouldn't discuss the terms of the settlement, but says the gun shop has implemented new procedures to eliminate the possibility of similar problems.
The Assistant U.S. Attorney representing the ATF could not be immediately reached for comment.
This has been what? Years in court?
Using abbreviations of forms??????
You mean that’s NOT a death penalty offense.... yet?
I remember how vehement the guy guiding me in filling out the last “yellow form” was about abbreviations.
No “st” for street, “ave” for avenue,
no “Mo” or “Ks” for Missouri or Kansas.
Sounds to me like someone with a bureaucratic bug up his a$$.
Those agents in the ATF that pushed this
should be forced, INDIVIDUALLY, to reimburse the businessman for his time and costs in defending himself.
you mean like a fascist prick?
ATF should be a convenience store..............
Details here, from American Hunter magazine:
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/Articles/Read.aspx?id=281&issue=28
I wonder what the ratio of gun owners to ATF agents is?
It WOULD be funny if the FCC, pardon me the Federal Communications Commission, began enforcing a "no abbreviations" policy on everyone who wished to exercise their First Amendment rights, would not it?
A thought:
Lawyers defending those being pursued by the ATF should require the same “no abbreviations” standard in ALL correspondence.
The ratio don’t matter. The problem is the ATF comes in with a entire gang, armed with military implements, and squashes any potential resistance. Even if the resistance is justified. Those jack booted thugs operate on the premise that everyone is a guilty militia operative.
It’s all an intimidation tactic.
Sounds like it’s a matter of will.
At this point in time, the government has more will to suppress opposition
than the oppressed have to resist it.
That may change quickly.
Why did I have pictures of Wilson Blair when I read this?
A better question is how many "Henry Bowman"'s there are to ATF agents.
The government is the champion of abbreviations. They even wrote a book of contractions.
As a Conservative, I grew up with a “Support your local police” belief.
As an adult whose family members have receive “B.S.” category traffic tickets by cops being overzealous to make their monthly ticket quota, I now see the cops as the enemy.
So, the criminals are the enemy. The cops are the enemy.
Not good.
Don’t the cops know that ticketing and lying on the ticket do much harm to citizen-police relationships?
i.e. I fail to come to complete stop at a sign. Almost complete...maybe down to 3 to 5 mph, 3 mph probably more accurate. The cop writes 10 mph on the ticket. No way I did 10.
i.e. wife gets pulled over by small town cop for going 42 mph in a 25 mph zone. No radar of course. Cop writes “est. 42 mph” on the ticket. No way. Wife argues with cop. Cop then adds failure to come to complete stop at stop sign.
Local cities need money.
Funny, both I and the counter man at the local Walmart abbreviated all of that on the form when I bought my shotgun from them.
If it's good enough for the IRS and the Post Office, it should damn-well be good enough for the BATFE.
“same” store for me, different guy, obviously.
Had the same experience in Arizona. Bureaucrats run wild - pathetically trying to make themselves look important.
[Sidebar] A guy I worked with flew DC-3s in 'Nam visited Thailand and went to the embassy there. They had openings in the State Department and he thought he'd take a crack. He filled out the form and handed it to the clerk, who sniffed, "I see you don't follow directions". The guy asked him what he was talking about and he said, "It says to put an 'X' in the boxes you put a CHECK mark instead." The guy instantly realized what he'd be getting into and told the clerk to take a hike.
In any given raid, about 1 to 100.
I was referring to the national ratio.
ATF = KGB ??
every time I hear about the atf, it is an infringement upon our 2nd Amendment rights.
it only takes one
IA = Illegal Aliens
JBT = Jack Booted Thugs (from Chicago)
Not near high enough...
again, it’s a matter of will
Ask Vicky Weaver
Somehow I doubt we’ll ever hear the actual truth about the case/settlement. The Feds will own this mans house, store and have him in jail if he should disclose anything. But condemning the use of abbreviations—if true—is an EXCUSE to persecute someone, not a reason.
The ATF is out of control!
Be Ever Vigilant!
Is there a digest of that book?
The only thing that can digest the book is bacteria.
The two letter abbreviations for states were instituted byt eh freaking post office! I really despise the JBT’s at the ATF.
They pretend that EVERY case they lose is completely isolated from the rest. Just like the IRS can lose a case about some trivial matter they tried to hammer someone with and then turn around and do THE SAME DAMNED THING to someone else!
True, but remember, they will come at you with chain guns and FLAME-THROWERS!
That's only from their viewpoint. BATFE see themselves as the reincarnated Knights of the Round Table, vanquishing evil in the land. That's the personal fable they must construct to justify the oppression they inflict on law abiding citizens in order to further the agenda of their masters who seek global domination. Problem being, when you start "vanquishing" opponents, sometimes they ummmm "vanquish" back!
Thus the opposition sees BATFE as operatives of nottingham's sheriff and might seek to undermine their oppression on the doctrine of trade up. If I have a knife, I can trade up to a pistol. If I have a pistol, I can trade up to an M4. If I have an M4 I can trade up to a SAW....
Those jack booted thugs operate on the premise that everyone is a guilty militia operative.
At some point that becomes what psychologists call a self fulfilling prophesy.
ping for interest...
I don't know who the next Wilson Blair is.
. They like to think they are a Three Letter Agency ,but they went from a Four Letter Agency to a Five Letter Agency, BATF to BATFE.
Unfortunately that Five Letter Agency, with the bottom of the barrel of federal law enforcment agents, now works for Eric Holder, the most anti arms rights person ever to hold the office of Attorney General, rather than that incompetent boob over at Treasury, where they were assigned until after 9-11.
Good post. Our 'overlords' refuse to allow individual liberty it's rightful place in America. Collectivists all, the power of the State reigns supreme while they wipe their rears with our Constitution, smile, and collect a check (and a pension, disability benefits, etc.).
The second ammendment, when taken as directed, would rename this rogue bunch BAT. On the Federal level, until ammended, these clowns have absolutely ZERO authority to 'infringe' on gun owners. If crossing state lines, maybe. But then, only with regard to 'commerce', not personal carry.
I wish someone would do a cost comparison between funding these agencies (as well as local police budgets) against what it would cost if the second ammendment were followed in every state where citizens could address crime in a more timely manner, rather than dialing 911 and waiting for a response.
I'm not a genius, and I don't play one on TV, but my guess is taxpayers could save HUGE. And the liberty payoff would be beyond our wildest dreams. As John Lennon wrote: "Imagine there's no jackboots."
WalMart has a lot more money for lawyers than any gun shop. They also don't sell weapons that the BATFE believes, in it vile heart, that mere citizens should not be able to own. Most gun shops do, some specialize in them. I'll be Red's sold them, lots of them.
It had better change, because if it doesn’t, then they’ll just pick us off one by one.
There are (probably) going to have to be a few “Patriot Martyrs” to hearten those who are on the fence about resisting.
I just hope the news gets out whenever the SHTF.
Not a thing in your post that I would disagree with.
They have been known to get prickly with folks that buy cigarettes from Indian Reservation sources via the Internet. More so if they are buying truckload lots...
Regards,
GtG
I know on some forms on certain lines the state needs to be spelled out completely, not using the two-letter or three letter abbreviations.
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