Posted on 02/04/2009 12:21:53 PM PST by Free ThinkerNY
Pope Benedict XVI's decision to rehabilitate Holocaust-denier Bishop Richard Williamson back into the Catholic Church has been heavily criticised - but does the Vatican really know the extent of Williamson's outrageous beliefs?
Williamson (68) was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in 1988 and has now been rehabilitated by Benedict XVI. He is currently in the priest seminary of the ultra conservative Society of St. Pius X, in Argentina, hidden behind thick walls lined with barbed wire.
People around the world are now asking themselves - how could the Pope rehabilitate this madman?
(Excerpt) Read more at bild.de ...
In all seriousness, this is a very ugly problem for the Church. Very ugly.
Are you Catholic? If you are you should realize that this whole tempest is patent nonsense. If you’re not it’s really none of your business.
Yes, they've condemned his views and according to most reports insisted today he recant. Generally antisemitic views held by the SSPX may be an issue to be dealt with over time, but Williamson's views were neither a surprise, nor related to his ex-communication, thus not really an issue.
Holocaust deniers and 09/11 truthers are everyone’s interest.
If a person in a position of power/notoriety/prominence is spewing such stuff it's everybody's business.
So says Herr Hitler
Not in any way conservatives — sound more like Ultra-Liberals!
The Pope did not "rehabilitate" this man, he merely stated that he was no longer excommunicated for activities having nothing to do with his beliefs about the holocaust or 911. This man is not now, and never was, a bishop of the Catholic Church. He is, however, a Catholic. Some Catholics, like some from every other religion, have strange and wrong beliefs. Nothing new or shocking here.
I couldn't care less what you or anyone else thinks of the Archbishop. Personally I think he's a first class ass but that's not the question here. The question is whether or not there are grounds to allow the bishops in question back into the fullness of Communion with the Church. They're atupid political opinions are their own business. Attack them if you like...I don't care.
The Holy Father's actions were proper and prudent and completey misunderstood by most of the hyena pack I've seen opining on the situation.
Who are you calling Hitler a-hole?
This would be the worst mistake Vatican could do, if it came up with this as a response.
People OUGHT to know better. #1. The media hates the Catholic Church. #2 This story has been twisted into an unrecognizable form counter to the truth....by the media!
In case you hadn’t noticed, the Pope’s not looking for your vote.
Referring to the removal of the canonical penalty of excommunication as "rehabilitation" is part of the problem. It's a commutation of sentence, not an endorsement of the guy. That's all.
Yes, they've responded far better than many of their defenders.
This business provides many examples. Instead of ripping to shreds the bias and distortion in the press, folks treat it as gospel.
He's a bishop -- ordained illegally, over the then-Pope's objections -- of a sect at the fringes of the Catholic Church; just this side of schismatic.
If he has any "power," it's not power the Pope gave him. All the Pope gave him was a qualified forgiveness.
Will the Society of Saint Pious recognize Vatican II?
Is that implicit in the revocation of the excommunicato?
My view is this, if the Bishop, or the Society, believe the Holocaust as presented is a sham, they should stick by their beliefs, if not, then Williamson should recant his interview.
IMO, I don’t care if one is a “denier” I do care if one is not honest about it.
If it were, quite a few Freepers might have problems.
No one ever listens to what the Catholic Church says anyway, including many of its own members.
Why the fuss?
And laughing his ass off at the reaction of the stupid small minds that he managed to provoke by his non-consequnetial statements.
Those same views are shared by many on FR.
Those who support L Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, etc.
They are 9/11 Truthers, and many of their sites go into
Holocaust denier and other idiot fringe beliefs.
Might want to clean out this bunch first.
You know it's funny...the same Freepers who are posting articles that the Pope step down for 'rehabilitating' someone who harbors thoughts and ideas they despise and other such nonsense would fight tooth and nail against Federal Hate Crime legislation.
“No one listens to the Catholic Church anyway”
Disagree with that notion, for example I’ve found recent commentaries by the Catholic Church both timely and erudite.
Of course Williamson does not speak for the whole of the Catholic Church, only his personal views.
This guy is a pig, I agree.
But isn’t excomminication a matter of really, seriously publically, disagreeing with Roman Catholic THEOLOGICAL doctrine by some sort of overt act?
The Shoa, was a tradgedy, but it is not a matter of theology (well, except to the ADL).
The guy was excommunicated because he bucked the pope on theological issues.
To give a contrast, they don’t excommunicate actual murderers, do they?
Most moral evils (e.g., murder) aren't excommunicable offenses.
You're preaching to the choir.
I was actually being sarcastic and lamenting the fact that most statements by the Church concerning things like abortion, euthanasia, homosexuality etc, are either laughed at or ignored by the world. Now, all of a sudden, it's critically important what a bishop on the fringe thinks about the Holocaust.
What difference does it make? Williamson has a following that is probably in the triple digits. It's not like he's going to invade Poland or anything.
He is indeed a bishop of the Catholic Church but is in an irregular and illicit status. He is suspended from exercising any sacramental ministry. That he continues to do so perpetuates the irregularity. He is, however, no longer excommunicate.
But in order for him to be regularized (rehabilitated), he will have to recant his anti-semitic views. News stories that say that the pope “rehabilitated him” are written by fools who don’t bother to inform themselves about that which they write about. The pope remitted the punishment of excommunication but did not rehabilitate or regularize the four bishops.
It would be just as ignorant to claim that World War II never happened.
Unless you're prepared to argue that refusing communion to John Kerry "violates the separation of church and state" [sic]
Nothing is implicit in the decree. It is a strictly defined document that explicitly says what it does and implies nothing else. It explicitly remits the excommunication. It does not annul the excommunication (which would have meant that the excommunications were unjustly imposed; instead, the decree affirms that they were justly imposed but decrees that they are no longer in force).
Legal documents are legal documents. They are written carefully in careful language. Those who read all sorts of implicit meanings into this decree are just as foolish as those who treat the US Constitution as a living document into which they can read whatever they jolly well please. We don’t like it when they do that, so why do you think we ought to read implicit meanings into a specifically formulated legal decree?
“Most moral evils (e.g., murder) aren’t excommunicable offenses.”
Yeah, exactly my point.
From a non-Roman Catholic perspective (me), this is much ado about nothing — my view, this guy is a loser, but that’s between him and G-d.
Perhaps there are more and much more involved then one has come to believe?
The Catholic World is at a crossroads marshmellow, sort of dogmatic (or Faithful) Catholics v the “soft” Catholicism that most people would prefer.
That is written not with some sort of jaundiced eye for myself, I’m in the corner of the Faithful, Latin Mass Catholicism...not the soft, worldly version.
Thank you both.
You have it correct.
So the SSPX is allowed to continue onward only with a vacated excommunicato?
Benedict was a serious Academician, if the vacate decree is that carefully worded, then he certainly would know exactly what he intended for both Williamson and the Society.
“Are you Catholic? If you are you should realize that this whole tempest is patent nonsense. If you’re not it’s really none of your business.”
I disagree with part of what you’re saying. Although the pope is not my religious leader (I’m Mormon), I think that the pope, while being the leader of the Catholic Church, is also a world leader with a great deal of influence that extends well beyond the church. I believe that the U.S. enjoys diplomatic relations with the Vatican, so that the Vatican is actually recognized as a sort of country. That having been said, I really like this pope, and I think his critics have made unfair allusions to his German ethnicity as though this makes him sympathetic to holocaust deniers. Utter nonsense. Bringing up his membership in the Hitler Youth (which every German child was forced to join) is another despicable act of unjustified character assassination. I remember when he was first selected as pope, one of his critics referred to him as God’s Rottweiler because of his traditional, conservative views. Even though this was meant as an insult at the time, I love this comparison, because I see it in a positive way. God can use a few ‘rottweilers’ every now and then to hold fast to high moral standards, so I will always think of him affectionately as God’s Rottweiler.
And just how does the Pope put his religion in your business?
You're right and I agree when the pope or any other religious leader is commenting on or acting on secular matters. For instance when JPII condemned the Iraqi war I for one made no bones about disagreeing with him. Loudly. However this issue is not the same kind of thing. This is 'family business' and should be treated that way by others. It's a Catholic thing and 99.9% of the non Catholic folks I've seen comment on it were completely ignorant as to the true issue at hand.
Another canidate for obamawamas team.
I wonder how many American bishops believe Lincoln freed the slaves.
What Benedict is doing is trying his level best to rescue the little SSPX flock from the kooky-korner and bring them back into the sanity of normal Catholicism.
The way Canon Law works is, you don't get excommunicated for having asinine or even offensive opinions: you get excommunicated for violating precise norms concerning heresy, apostasy and schism. The excommunication involves all those who followed Williamson into schism, i.e. what we would call his "ecclesiastical subjects." It's these people the Pope is trying to show mercy towards, by removing the technical canonical impediment of Williamson's excommunication.
Williamson's stupid opinions, in other words, are completely irrelevant to this process. B16 is trying to reach past him and get his congregation out of that crazy-making place and back into the Family of the Faith.
Rabbi Irwin Kula wrote a very sensible article about this in, of all places, the HuffPost.
I really hope you will follow the link and read it, because Kula is a fair-minded man who clearly understands how unjust and, in fact, self-defeating it is for anti-semitism campaigners to target Pope Benedict over this issue.
The Pope's action has nothing to do with "approval" of Williamson (though the Church is always prepared to reconcile repentant sinners, even sinners who are horses' asses). The real object is to get past Williamson's canonical impediment and try to get his "ecclesiastical subjects" off of the floating debris and back into the ark.
>>Being a goofball, an idiot, or a nitwit are not excommunicable offenses in the Catholic church.<<
No, but it will get you elected Vice-President.
I understand Mrs Don-o.
Still, this is bad for the Church any way you look at it.
I'm inclined to agree with you on that: politics is the sphere of influence of the laity, not the clergy --- and I'm one who will always object to the clericalization of the laity, and the laicization of the clergy. USCCB delenda est!
But I think B16 has been good about focusing on moral principle, and leaving secular politics to the seculars.
Did you have a particular grievance in mind?
Well, it’s painful to see the utterly misdirected and disproportionate reactions of the anti-anti-semitism industry.
Do read Rabbi Kula, he gets it.
The unsaid in all of this, is not the lesser light Williamson, it is the fact that for a change, a large portion of Seminarians can be called “Tradition Catholic” as found:
” In fact, specific resistance is most prevalent in the dying churches of France with their bishops and priests. Upon final regularization, Monsignor Barreiro said, “More than one-third of all seminarians in France will be in traditionalist seminaries.” This would include the SSPX, the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), the Institute of Good Shepherd and the Institute of Christ the King (ICR) as well as some other lesser known traditionalist priestly groups.
“I expect that some structure like a universal Apostolic Administration may be the only solution,” Monsignor Barreiro said, while cautioning that he did not have direct access to the specific details.
Several articles this week on the SSPX excommunication annulments contained comments from bishops and George Weigel in a New York Times interview noting that they expected that the Society bishops would need to explicitly adhere in some fashion to the Second Vatican Council. However, Monsignor Barreiro opined that the SSPX’s official request for the lifting of the sanctions would be sufficient as it demonstrates explicit recognition of the authority of the Holy Father and the magisterium of the Church.
Prior to the easing of the excommunications, Bishop Fellay wrote, in part, the following to the Holy See:
We are always firmly determined in our will to remain Catholic and to place all our efforts at the service of the Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Roman Catholic Church. We accept its teachings with filial disposition. We believe firmly in the Primacy of Peter and in its prerogatives, and for this the current situation makes us suffer so much.”
I tend to agree, giving the existing French Catholic structures undo influence is to see the Church suffer and simply dry out, in France, if young SPXX Seminarians are the future, then by all means, allow the future to come quickly, lives are meant to be challenged, not lulled into complacency with sweet words and little else.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.