Posted on 01/16/2009 6:05:20 AM PST by Terriergal
BLOOMINGTON, Minn. -- The Bloomington School District is closing schools Friday, after extremely cold temperatures caused the biodiesel fuel in school buses to clog.
The problem left dozens of students stranded Thursday -- some for up to 30 minutes in the dangerous cold.
Superintendent Les Fujitake said the district could not ensure the buses would not encounter the same issues Friday mornning as temperatures remain below zero in the Twin Cities and therefore they decided to close schools in Bloomington.
Elements in biodiesel fuel turn into a gel-like substance at temperatures below 10 degrees. District spokesman Rick Kaufman said some buses couldn't operate at all and others stalled while picking up students.
About 50 of the district's 10,000 students were affected. Kaufman said there were no reports of students needing medical attention.
Many other schools statewide were closed or delaying starts Friday due to the cold.
On Friday morning it was 21 degrees below zero in the Twin Cities -- the same as the day before -- but there was no extreme wind chill.
LOL!!! Things they don't tell you when they rave about the glories of "biofuel".
I wonder how often he gets called Fruitcake.
Saw quite a few semis having fuel related issues as well this morning. They are running the government’s goo, as well....
Um, it’s a horrible idea to have this junk in school buses in Minnesota to begin with. It’s REGULARLY below 10 degrees in the Twin Cities and the rest of the state.
There have been weeks on end where daily highs never got above 25 this year.
It's for the children.
Where is Global Warming when you really need it?
It’s not that difficult to deal with this problem with a fuel heating system on each bus. They were told this would happen. Petro diesel does the same thing at a lower temperature. It’s incompetence.
Yeah but that would cost more money/fuel to run you see...
Environmentalism begets ignorance which begets more environmentalism.
A vicious circle.
Arnold says 5 days off in California schools would save 1.1 billion dollars. Plus all the savings in “greenhouse” gases. So maybe it’s a win-win.
There’ve been weeks where it hasn’t gotten above 10! And I think close to a week where it hovered in the single digits below zero. But may not have been an entire week. It’s been about -12 now in the mornings for several days. Coldest yesterday and today (Friday) but they say it should be 30 by Tuesday again.
1) Water can cause a number of problems in the fuel. Diesel fuel has an inherent problem of being hydroscopic, which means it readily absorbs moisture from the air. Other than the obvious problem of being non-combustible and the potential for freezing and restricting fuel delivery, water also causes corrosion of fuel system components and reduces the lubricity of the fuel, both of which result in wear. Many fuel additives contain chemicals that disperse moisture in the fuel. If the moisture is dispersed, it cannot concentrate in one area and cause a restriction in fuel delivery if it freezes. In addition, being dispersed in the fuel allows the moisture to be carried to the water separator where it can be removed from the fuel. Also, bio-d has around 3 times the affinity to absorb water.
2) Cold weather protection can be added to the fuel. In cold conditions two problems may occur. First, any water present in the fuel system can freeze and interrupt fuel delivery. De-icing or freeze depressants lower the freezing point of the water to prevent this from happening. The second problem is know as gelling, which is what happens when wax crystals form in the fuel. This effects how well the fuel flows and can reduce fuel delivery to the point of preventing the engine from starting. Pour-point depressants lower the temperature at which the fuel will flow and wax dispersants keep any crystals evenly distributed throughout the fuel. To be effective, pour-point depressants and wax dispersants must be added before gelling occurs. Stick some olive oil in the frig for 2 days and watch what happens --- olive oil is a bio-d too!
3) Another problem related to moisture in the fuel is organic contamination. Moisture in the air contains micro-organisms. When moisture is absorbed by diesel fuel, and the water is allowed to collect or concentrate, these microorganisms can multiply to the point where problems may occur. Usually this problem only occurs where fuel is allowed to sit around for prolonged periods. But once in truck, algae can plug fuel filters and passages in the injectors or injection pump. In some cases fungus or slime will form inside areas of the fuel system and produce an organic acid which will corrode fuel system components. A biocide should be used in tanks to prevent the fuel from becoming contaminated, and can be used if contamination has spread inside your vehicle tank.
if you mean by ignorance that the kids are kept out of school resulting in ignorance, I’d have to disagree. Maybe the kids would stay home and learn something useful for a change. ;-)
I'd say! But then, what would all the poor teachers DO ! They might have to go out and get their summer jobs earlier!
I ran an experiment on my back porch a few winters ago where I had blends of bio/petro Diesel in 10% increments/decrements. 100% bioDiesel had issues below 40 deg F.
Well it makes you feel good even if it doesn't work!
We have this stupid state mandate about having up to 10 percent ethanol in our fuel at the pumps. The other day my truck started shuddering at idle and the engine light keeps coming on in this cold. I wonder if that’s the problem. Then it is OK for a few days, and when it gets cold again, it’ll happen again.
You are supposed to have either a fuel heating system or some other method of heating the fuel when doing biodiesel. Any person who has ever looked into biodiesel knows that! Once the engine is started, the fuel is heated by the warmth of the engine block, and the return line then puts some warm fuel back into the tank.
There is a state law now here that we have to have a certain percentage of ethanol... is that the same thing?
Well that’s true of course.
As country comic Jerry Clower once noted:
“Why can’t Johnny read? ‘Cause Johnny is never in school with all the breaks and holidays!”
well apparently they didn’t or it didn’t work.
If you think about it, there must have been all kinds of practical reasons why we built those many millions of gasoline powered automobiles. Greenies are utopians - big on pipe dreams, short on common sense.
btw see post 19. Is ethanol the same thing? Because EVERYONE has to use a blend of it here whether your car is specially equipped or not.
Next, watch for the battery operated cars to fail....junk science/engineering...
I bet they weren't even using an anti-gel fuel additive. I've seen stuff on the market made specifically for biodiesel which supposedly prevents these problems down to -40 degrees F.
It was also interesting to note that yesterday when temperatures reached as low as -46 degrees on the northern prairies, there was virtually no wind thus all of those windmills that clutter our landscape were likely idle. Thank heaven we still have coal and nuclear plants to supply electricity or it would be more than a few school kids in Minneapolis who would be freezing.
I had 13 trucks gell up Tues AM and the temp was only -2. Our fuel was treated (with the updated additive) and blended at a 90-10%. Now I am at 70-30% and don't have too much problem.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=49628
AHH here we go...
Our Republicrat governor... in all his glory:
August 13, 2007
Minnesota Boosts Biodiesel Initiative from 2 to 20 %
“Morgan, Minnesota [RenewableEnergyAccess.com]
Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty unveiled a schedule for taking the state’s biodiesel requirement from “B2” to “B20” over the next eight years. Designed to boost the level of biodiesel sold in Minnesota from the current 2 percent to 20 percent by 2015, the Governor said he would bring this plan to the legislature during the regular 2008 legislative session.”
I can’t imagine it DIDN’T go through.
Well, first I’d ever heard of it. Every day, here at FR, I learn something new.
Minnesota Establishes 20 Percent Biodiesel Requirement
POSTED ON MAY 16, 2008 BY DENNIS PFAFF
“The omnibus measure signed by Pawlenty, which also deals with veterans and agriculture issues, ratchets up the biodiesel content requirement from the current 2 percent to 5 percent next year, 10 percent by 2012 and then to 20 percent by May 1, 2015. But the new law also contains a number of exceptions and qualifications (see text of bill here).
For instance, the 10 percent and 20 percent levels would be in place only during the warmer months of April through October. For the rest of the year, the content level would revert to 5 percent. However, state officials could allow the higher standards to go forward during the cooler months if they find that technical issues associated with the state’s frigid weather have been solved.”
Anything in there about going BACK to regular diesel if there are still problems? I wonder...
There’s also this line
“Additionally, the law requires that at least 5 percent of the biodiesel needed for the blends come from sources such as algae, waste oils or tallow, provided it is economical to do so. “
?!?
Economical? Since when has it been economical to do all this nonsense? Is Ethanol economical? is there any disclaimer like that for the ethanol requirement? argh. Oh I am so tired of moderate Republicrats. No more voting for the lesser of two evils for me.
Get some gas line anti-freeze (isopropyl alcohol) and it should help your problems. Biodiesel and ethanol aren't nearly the same thing.
Human idiocy strikes again!
Ethanol doesn’t gel. It actually protects against gelling.
I grew up in Bloomington. I went to Bloomington public schools for 9 years. I left in 1975.
Back then, nearly everyone walked to school. You could get a bus ride only if you lived more than a mile from the school. I lived three blocks from the elementary school, but I was about 100 feet short of a mile from the junior high. Perhaps 10% of the students took a bus.
In 9 years of school, I had only one day that the school was closed (20 inches of snow). Closing school because it was cold out just didn’t happen. And -20F happened a lot.
Re-institute walking to school. Reduce the need for buses. Get the kids in shape.
Didn’t some wizened man predict that Minnesota would become the Saudi Arabia of the renewable fuel era?
Isn’t this in one of the states that has dictated biodiesel use?
They’re afraid someone might get frostbite. And you know, kids don’t have money for jackets, hats, boots, gloves... as evidenced by the fact that so many of them don’t wear them! Surely it couldn’t be because they’re stupid kids and afraid of looking silly and unfashionable.
Ah yeah I was just reading that. However looks like Pawlenty is upping the biodiesel requirements too.
I still hate ethanol, it’s completely draining money from the system.
Thanks, I just did some quick reading and found that out too. HOwever also found out pawlenty upped the biodiesel requirements last year, working up to 20 percent over 8 years. Doh!
At those temps regular diesel will also begin to gel.
Stock up on filters before you try this. I'm used to dealing with boats and they tend to condense water in the bottom of the tank. Much better to just drain the water regularly
God help us, please, because it seems we've forgotten how to think.
Enviromental Engineering is taugh in liberal arts, not engineering. This problem was entirely predictable along with the problems with ethanol and water/corrosion.
We experimented with many type of alternatie fuels for diesels in the 70’s and none provided a good all round replacement for petroleum based diesel.
If one is flying a single engine, ya sure don't want it quitting at 10k ft....may not be a Hudson near by to glide on for a stop.
Of course if the greenie weenie elites have it their way they be f'n with aircraft fuel too.
Pardon my language, but, feelings do not override common sense...don't care who ya are. I say let's deport 30 million illegal trespassers immediately and help clean the air!
I hate it when goobermint cause the taxpayers more expense (more additives, tune-ups, problems, etc. for combustion powered vehicles) in repairs, etc. just for their image of "we're from the goobermint, and we're here to help." LOL!!
I recall when the first low sulfur N2 was mandated for 1993. It required a big new hydrogen plant, costing in the neighborhood of $260 million for our 280,000 bbl/day refinery. We found that the diesel had lubricity and aromaticity issues, which the engineering staff had to immediately deal with. It was a self-created problem, driven by an environmental edict.
My bro drove an 18-wheeler for years...never would shut the engine off even with all the additives when running the north in winter -- too hard to start and time was money. He hated chaining up....like clock work a lot of time after coming out of the Eisenhower Tunnel on the west side or coming up and across the Donner Pass.
Hope you are running the trucks well today. Was only 15ºF here this morning in RTP, NC.....people complaining....grew up in the mountains of NC...they haven't seen cold...I sometimes work in -40C for 5-10 minutes at a time (no coat just gloves) for verify test setups for products in large walk-ins...that's cold with the air circ fans running.
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