Posted on 01/13/2009 11:01:34 AM PST by PurpleMan
I believe that Gardasil is not approved for males.
You can’t simply turn my argument against me if you don’t answer that question.
I most certainly can. Neither you nor anybody else can consclusively prove that vaccines were the sole reason for decrease in certain diseases any more than you claim they are the ONLY reason for it. Because as you have stated yourself- coincidence does not prove causality. I have seen studies showing that many of the diseases were on the decline BEFORE vaccination. What’s to say they weren’t going to decrease or die out naturally anyway? Again, you can look at the results any way you want to convince yourself of anything you want. You choose to accept conventional wisdom and worship vaccines, and I choose to be a bit more open-minded and skeptical and see the other side.
You’re lucky it was only 100. If the anti-vaccination people have their way 100 will become 1,000 or 10,000.
How can you say that? Do you have a crystal ball? Maybe the diseases have died out enough to the point that they would never return in appreciable numbers. the only way to prove your statement would be to stop vaccinating everyone and see what happens. But of course, that will never happen because we will continue to vaccinate everyone until the end of time, apparently.
And no one claims 100% efficacy for any vaccine which is why mass vaccination is important. It protects the non-immune as well as the immunized.
Aha, the ‘herd-theory’ of vaccination. One of the most obvious frauds in medical science. Allow me to illustrate:
You go to the doctor and find out you have high blood pressure. The doctor gives you a prescription and as you walk out, he says “there’s just one catch: I don’t know if it will work for you, so you need to make sure everyone else is taking it, too, and then it might work.” what would you think of that doctor, or his ‘prescription’?
The next person goes to the doctor for diabetes and is told the same thing. then another for epilepsy and on and on. The result of this is that theoretically, every single person would have to take every single drug so that the few who need them would get the benefit! If this is how every drug worked, there would be no drugs. why is it any different for vaccines?
First of all every vaccine is subjected to rigorous clinical trials. Salk’s vaccine study encompassed over 400,000 vaccinated children, over 200,000 placebo injected children and over 1 million others who weren’t injected with anything and used as additional controls. These studies conclusively proved the effectiveness of the vaccine. There were 58,000 new cases of polio in 1953. That number fell to 161 in 1962. It wasn’t better nutrition or a change in medical care. It was the vaccine.
You cannot be serious. Are you actually saying that it is nothing more than a coincidence that polio has been eradicated following the widespread distribution of a vaccine that develops immunity to the polio virus? Is that what you're saying?
No one has a crystal ball but as we've learned, if we let our guard down these diseases will return. We don't vaccinate against smallpox anymore since it's gone. If polio disappears as well we'll be able to stop vaccinating against that as well, since it is limited to humans.
Aha, the ‘herd-theory’ of vaccination. One of the most obvious frauds in medical science. Allow me to illustrate: You go to the doctor and find out you have high blood pressure. The doctor gives you a prescription and as you walk out, he says “there’s just one catch: I don’t know if it will work for you, so you need to make sure everyone else is taking it, too, and then it might work.” what would you think of that doctor, or his ‘prescription’
You're kidding, right? Why do you bring up non-infectious diseases to cloud the discussion? You can't "catch" hypertension from someone else. It's apples and oranges.
That's what she's saying. And she isn't alone, unfortunately.
Yes, well, that's why we have laws that require immunization.
They're working on changing that, I'm afraid.
Are you actually saying that it is nothing more than a coincidence that polio has been eradicated following the widespread distribution of a vaccine that develops immunity to the polio virus?
Are you denying that it COULD be a coincidence? And how do you know that people actually got (or have) immunity to polio due to the vaccine? Has everyone been titered for their antibodies? That is the only way to know. Do you know if YOU have immunity to polio, or do you just blindly trust that you do because you got a shot? My daughter recieved all 5 polio doses as recommended and shows no immunity to it in blood tests. Kind of like my friend who recieved three rounds of HepB and never showed immunity. The fact is, you don’t know who is immune to ANYTHING unless you do the blood tests on everyone, and that is not done on a regular basis.
Yes, I am. Polio has existed since pre-history and it has essentially been eradicated since the introduction of the polio vaccine. If you'd like to believe that polio has been around for at least 6000 years and then--all of a sudden, contemporaneous with but entirely unrelated to the widespread distribution of a vaccine that (coincidentally, I'm sure) developed immunity to the virus--polio died out on its own, then you're welcome to do so.
But this, happily, answers your question earlier on this thread, which was why do we require immunizations. Your eyes need look no further than what you just typed: we require them because some people are apparently incapable of making decisions that are clearly in their own best interest and in the best interests of society as a whole.
By the way, do you also refuse to bathe or groom yourself on the belief that there is no evidence that good hygiene minimizes the risk of sickness and infection?
By the way, do you also refuse to bathe or groom yourself on the belief that there is no evidence that good hygiene minimizes the risk of sickness and infection?
No, but I’m sure you would like to see a law passed requiring how often everyone must bathe and how they groom themselves. After all, it would be for their own good (and that of others, too), wouldn’t it?
Do you mean things like laws that require food workers to wash their hands and wear hair nets? Yes, I am all in favor of those laws. I'm also in favor of denying people entry into public accomodations due to poor hygiene.
Why do you bring up non-infectious diseases to cloud the discussion?
Because I am trying to point out that what we would never accept as plausible treatment for any other disease we blindly accept for only certain infectious diseases. It does not make the theory any less absurd or the practice less ethical that you have to force treatment upon one person for the good of another- be it hypertension or measles. It’s a theoretical and ethical question to ask yourself: would you want to be forced to take a drug solely for someone else’s benefit? If you actually answer yes (which I’m sure you will do just argue the point and prove how much you care about the common good), for which diseases would you consider it acceptable to be forced to take a drug for the ‘common good’? After all, hypertension and diabetes can kill people. That is my point.
And, by the way, they are finding that many conditions (cancer,obesity, diabetes) may actually be caused in part or stimulated by viruses. How far are you willing to go in saying that everyone should be vaccinated for them? How will you choose or where will you draw the line? After all, at this very moment, more people die from those conditions than all the diseases we vaccinate for combined.
I'm willing to go very far indeed. If we could prevent Type I diabetes through vaccination I'd be all for it. I've posted on many threads my support for HPV vaccination, an enormous breakthrough in women's health. And if we find viral causes for, say breast or prostate cancer I'd say vaccinate away. Why allow unnecessary death and suffering?
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