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US loses most jobs since 1945
FinancialTimes.com ^ | 1/09/09 | Krishna Guha, Andrew Ward and Edward Luce

Posted on 01/09/2009 9:49:30 AM PST by NormsRevenge

The US economy lost more than half a million jobs in December for the second month running, new figures showed on Friday, making 2008 the worst year for job losses since 1945.

The unemployment rate – which hit a low of 4.4 per cent prior to the start of the credit crisis – jumped to 7.2 per cent, its highest level in 16 years. Unemployment has now risen by a full percentage point since September, when the crisis intensified with the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the investment bank.

There was a further rise in the number of discouraged workers no longer actively seeking employment.

President-elect Barack Obama seized on the report – which he said showed the situation in the jobs market was “dire” and “deteriorating” – to urge swift passage of his proposed near-$800bn fiscal stimulus by Congress.

“This morning we received a stark reminder of how urgently action is needed,” he said. “For the sake of our economy and our people, this is the time to act without delay.”

Stock markets sagged on the news even though the headline number of 524,000 jobs lost was less than the 600,000-plus figure feared by many analysts as investors focused on the grim details of the report.

Average hours worked by those with jobs fell to 33.3 hours a week, the lowest level since this number was first estimated in 1964 – while the number of temporary help workers also fell. Both numbers suggesting further large job losses are likely to follow.

Meanwhile, revisions to previous months data showed job losses in October and November were even larger than originally reported. The only faint piece of positive news was an increase in hourly earnings.

Goldman Sachs said it was “another terrible employment report, although not perhaps as bad as some in the market had feared.”

Job losses were more concentrated in manufacturing and construction than in November, although this could reflect incomplete adjustment for seasonal factors. Only health and education, plus the government sector, eeked out positive gains.

Including the figures for December, the US manufacturing sector lost 791,000 jobs in 2008, while the retail trade lost 522,000.

There were early signs on Friday that the political pendulum – which had swung away from swift package of a fiscal stimulus of nearly $800bn or larger following this week’s $1,200bn deficit warning from the Congressional Budget Office – was swinging back in favour following the jobs report.

Manufacturing industry associations, labour unions and others issued statements demanding swift passage of a big stimulus.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 1945; jobs; loses
Brought to you by Congre$$, socialists, big spenders in both parties .. I'm blaming global warming and creeping socialism, not Bush, his signatures on bills are only the latest.

The roots of this whole mess are about as transparent as the global warming hoax and the liberal agenda.

1 posted on 01/09/2009 9:49:31 AM PST by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge

There are three times as many jobs now as there was then, the idiot who wrote this should have also said that more people are unemployed than the population of Detroit.

100 years ago it would be true.


2 posted on 01/09/2009 9:53:18 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: PAR35; TigerLikesRooster; bamahead; AndyJackson; Thane_Banquo; nicksaunt; MadLibDisease; ...
*Ping!*
3 posted on 01/09/2009 9:54:18 AM PST by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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The Money, Banking, and Financial Markets Ping List.

"Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations."
—Thomas Jefferson

FR Keywords: moneylist, bankinglist, financelist

Please tag all relevant threads with the aforementioned keywords.

This can be a very high-volume ping list at times.

Ping list jointly pinged by rabscuttle385 and TigerLikesRooster.

To join the ping list:
FReepmail rabscuttle385 with the subject line add  moneylist.
(Stop getting pings by sending the subject line drop moneylist.)


4 posted on 01/09/2009 9:55:18 AM PST by rabscuttle385 ("If this be treason, then make the most of it!" —Patrick Henry)
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To: NormsRevenge

Uh oh, and the world came to an end in 1945, didn’t it?


5 posted on 01/09/2009 9:56:39 AM PST by Chet 99
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To: NormsRevenge

1945 was a transition year from military to civilian jobs.


6 posted on 01/09/2009 10:02:53 AM PST by unkus
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To: Abathar
Exactly. There were 132 million people in 1945 compared to over 300 million now. So, to compare apples to apples, you need to increased the unemployment count now by a factor of about 2.25 times to make the two numbers comparable. But, that kind of math is too difficult for the MSM so they would rather just print the scary stuff and let every non-thinking person with the IQ of dust start demanding Washington to fix it. Fox...hen house...
7 posted on 01/09/2009 10:04:05 AM PST by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
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To: Abathar
... the idiot who wrote this should have also said that more people are unemployed than the population of Detroit.

Cut the idiot who wrote this a little slack, will ya. He was "eeked out" about the whole thing. LOL

(I love some spelling errors.)

From the article: "Only health and education, plus the government sector, eeked out positive gains.)

8 posted on 01/09/2009 10:10:40 AM PST by DumpsterDiver
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To: NormsRevenge

They finally let an honest report through. It won’t hurt GWB at this point, and makes it easier to get back to faking them lower later in the year to “prove” that Obama’s policies are just the stuff.


9 posted on 01/09/2009 10:14:19 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: NormsRevenge
All of this occurred since the Democrat takeover of congress. All was going pretty well until that happened.

I'm just sayin'

10 posted on 01/09/2009 10:14:55 AM PST by lawnguy (The function of wisdom is to discriminate between good and evil-Cicero)
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To: NormsRevenge

Yep and it seems that no matter what happens the same bad players are being looked to for salvation. We need someone who will unleash the punishment that is deserved on our persistent bad leadership. Someone who will channel the blame where it squarely belongs. This is an opportunity but the great leader seems to be absent. John McCain could have been that leader but he failed the test being more than happy to blame the freemarket along with the the rest of the cowardly bunch on capital hill.


11 posted on 01/09/2009 10:15:05 AM PST by Maelstorm (This country was not founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a government check!")
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To: NormsRevenge

Wow. Lots of new members for the Free Republic Economic Denial Club today.


12 posted on 01/09/2009 10:15:58 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: NormsRevenge
The unemployment rate – which hit a low of 4.4 per cent prior to the start of the credit crisis – jumped to 7.2 per cent, its highest level in 16 years. Unemployment has now risen by a full percentage point since September, when the crisis intensified with the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the investment bank.

I guess I don't know how to do this Million Man Math. The difference between 4.4 and 7.2 is one percentage point? And didn't the credit crisis really begin well after September?

13 posted on 01/09/2009 10:19:46 AM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: jiggyboy

Lots of new members for the Free Republic Economic Denial Club today.

Now if we can only get some of them to dump their pockets and donate to FR, we’ll be getting somewhere. :)


14 posted on 01/09/2009 10:24:17 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: TigersEye

>>>I guess I don’t know how to do this Million Man Math. The difference between 4.4 and 7.2 is one percentage point? And didn’t the credit crisis really begin well after September?

The one percent gain was since Septmber 2008. The 4.4% rate was from March 2007. The credit crisis began in July 2007, with the closing of high yield debt markets, the tightening of credit standards and rising of rates for interbank lending. As the story noted, the crisis intensified this past September with the collapse of Lehamn.


15 posted on 01/09/2009 10:26:05 AM PST by NC28203
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To: NormsRevenge; rabscuttle385; Grampa Dave

There’s an excellent graph on MarketWatch.com that really puts the annual job loss picture in perspective over the past 65+ years!!!


16 posted on 01/09/2009 10:27:36 AM PST by SierraWasp (Prevention may beat cures, but it requires a totally totalitarian government to make it work!!!)
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To: SierraWasp
I was just gonna ask if someone has seen a good chart. Thanks! Got it!


17 posted on 01/09/2009 10:32:59 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed.)
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To: Abathar

The unemployment really isn’t that bad but it still doesn’t change the fact that a government too large and too involved has led to this mess. We still are very close to what was previously considered “full employment” even with the doom and gloom. Whether things get much worse will be a test of the new administration which seems to want to take a dualistic approach. That Obama is seriously considering cutting corporate taxes and hold off on raising taxes is a testament that he wishing to be more than a one term President. If he gives in to those who want to “stick it to the rich” we are going to find unemployment exceeding 15-20%. Some areas of the country already have reached 10% unemployment. I expect it to get immediately worse when the new minimum wage increases kick in. Also it isn’t just here that the wages are going up. So we should see businesses squeezed even more internationally also and the number of jobs will be reduced and the workload on existing employees will rise.

The problem with minimum wages is that they are not indexed to the reality of business profitability and until the naive politicians and labor unions accept that reality things will get worse.


18 posted on 01/09/2009 10:33:59 AM PST by Maelstorm (This country was not founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a government check!")
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To: NormsRevenge

“You BETCHA!!! (grin)


19 posted on 01/09/2009 10:35:35 AM PST by SierraWasp (Prevention may beat cures, but it requires a totally totalitarian government to make it work!!!)
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To: Maelstorm

You didn’t get the memo?
All business must be “non-profit”.


20 posted on 01/09/2009 10:39:09 AM PST by griswold3 (a good story is more compelling than the search for truth)
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To: NormsRevenge

Now you know this is actually a crisis caused by too little government spending, right? After all, the answer is massively more government spending according to congress and the president elect. It’s not a credit crisis, it’s a spending crisis and Obama is the man to solve it! His checks are all blank and the numbers on his credit cards are worn down from overuse! Well, I mean our credit cards and our checks, but that’s just details.


21 posted on 01/09/2009 10:49:40 AM PST by pepsi_junkie (Often wrong, but never in doubt!)
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To: NormsRevenge

What is the ratio of jobs lost per number of jobs for 1945 and now?


22 posted on 01/09/2009 10:51:15 AM PST by SoldierDad (Proud Dad of a U.S. Army Infantry Soldier presently instructing at Ft. Benning.)
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To: griswold3

Non-profit usually means only those who administrate them are rich. Course in a socialist world every man but the bureaucrats are guaranteed a low paying job and a hovel.


23 posted on 01/09/2009 10:58:03 AM PST by Maelstorm (This country was not founded with the battle cry "Give me liberty or give me a government check!")
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To: NormsRevenge

Hmmm... that chart makes job gains and losses look kind of....cyclical. Is that possible?/s


24 posted on 01/09/2009 11:03:27 AM PST by keepitreal (Obama brings change: an international crisis (terrorism) within 6 months)
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To: NC28203

Ahhh, I see. I’m not a financial guy so I don’t read that inside info.


25 posted on 01/09/2009 11:17:32 AM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Still that’s a raw numbers chart not percentage of population. Someone upthread suggested it would look different if presented as a percentage.


26 posted on 01/09/2009 11:20:22 AM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: NormsRevenge

And Obama’s “global warming” taxes will kill still more jobs.


27 posted on 01/09/2009 11:33:00 AM PST by pleikumud
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To: TigersEye
"Still that’s a raw numbers chart not percentage of population. Someone upthread suggested it would look different if presented as a percentage."

Well sure it does, there were 2.8 million jobs lost in 1945 when the US population was about 140 million.

This year 2.6 million jobs lost, population about 300 million.

So as a percentage of total population (not work force) 2% of the population lost jobs in 1945 --- .9% of the population lost jobs in 2008.

28 posted on 01/09/2009 11:42:01 AM PST by Positive (Nothing is sadder than to see a beautiful theory murdered by a gang of brutal facts.)
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To: Positive

So if the whole graph were adjusted that way it would have a continuous upward trend throughout wouldn’t it?


29 posted on 01/09/2009 11:56:49 AM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: Positive
Correction: I should have said a continuous upward trend averaged and you bring up another adjustment that should be included as well. It should reflect percentage of workforce not total population. Of course increased percentage of government jobs would skew it too. I don't know if those are counted in unemployment figures ... or whether they should be since they don't really reflect economic conditions the same way jobs in the open market do. Do they?
30 posted on 01/09/2009 12:04:07 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: NormsRevenge
President-elect Barack Obama seized on the report – which he said showed the situation in the jobs market was “dire” and “deteriorating” – to urge swift passage of his proposed near-$800bn fiscal stimulus by Congress. “This morning we received a stark reminder of how urgently action is needed,” he said. “For the sake of our economy and our people, this is the time to act without delay.”

Obama will soon have the power to start a war, draft 3 million people and solve the nation's unemployment problem!

Maybe we could invade and conquer Mexico! That would keep us busy for a while and employ lots of people! Plus, they like the new statist, socialist model!

31 posted on 01/09/2009 12:15:06 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: April Lexington

Don’t give the Manchurian affirmative action candidate any ideas!


32 posted on 01/09/2009 12:17:12 PM PST by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: NC28203
And didn’t the credit crisis really begin well after September?

It is stunning how the revanchist Establishment has managed to push the starting date of the recession back one year into the Bush administration to protect the Clueless One.

Goebbels Media. "The bigger the lie, the more people who will believe it!"

33 posted on 01/09/2009 12:18:31 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: MHGinTN

Oooops!


34 posted on 01/09/2009 12:19:47 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: NormsRevenge

interesting thread...


35 posted on 01/09/2009 12:24:50 PM PST by malia
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To: TigersEye
"It should reflect percentage of workforce not total population."

you are correct, I'm just too busy to do the research to find out what the "workforce" represents as a percentage of the population.

My guess is that the workforce was a smaller percentage of the population in 1945 than it is now because of more single income families then.

36 posted on 01/09/2009 12:24:57 PM PST by Positive (Nothing is sadder than to see a beautiful theory murdered by a gang of brutal facts.)
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To: econjack
The whole idea is to stimulate enthusiasm for the stimulus package, not to stimulate the economy. More money to skim, imho, more theft.

In the early '80s, the Feds just extended unemployment benefits an additional six months, they didn't send out checks to the whole country.

37 posted on 01/09/2009 12:25:46 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Positive
I wasn't suggesting you do that work, just so you know. I appreciate your input as it is.

You bring up yet another factor that needs to be considered to make a fair comparison. The demographics of the work force. That made me think about how much bigger the agricultural sector used to be and I don't think self-employed farmers and ranchers were counted in employment figures then. I have seen the point made that the self-employed are not counted today which is a much larger part of the white collar sector today.

Making comparisons to sixty years ago is a rather complicated project.

38 posted on 01/09/2009 1:15:01 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: NormsRevenge

Good time for the government to go after the illegals and free up some jobs for american citizens.


39 posted on 01/09/2009 1:19:13 PM PST by linn37
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To: NormsRevenge

BUY AMERICAN.

The job you save, may be your own.


40 posted on 01/09/2009 1:20:23 PM PST by Cringing Negativism Network (During any "D" Administration: USA's MSM, become indistinguishable from the USSR's Pravda.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
On that note...

Made_in_America

madeinusa.com

stillmadeinusa.com

madeinusa.org

lehmans

U.S. STUFF ™

Buy Made in the USA

American Made Products Directory

buyamerican

texasjean

Annin & Co.

41 posted on 01/09/2009 1:26:06 PM PST by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: TigersEye
"Making comparisons to sixty years ago is a rather complicated project."

Indeed.

There were probably many more bananas eaten by Americans in 2008 than in 1945, meanwhile probably fewer cigarettes smoked. Who knows what either might mean.

I think that the observations about that "number" of jobs lost assertion (don't know if it is indeed a fact), were made just to point out its simplism.

42 posted on 01/09/2009 2:14:38 PM PST by Positive (Nothing is sadder than to see a beautiful theory murdered by a gang of brutal facts.)
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To: April Lexington

>>>It is stunning how the revanchist Establishment has managed to push the starting date of the recession back one year into the Bush administration to protect the Clueless One.

It is not revisionist to say the credit crisis began in July 2007. It is fact. Take a look at:

TED spreads (the difference between what the U.S. government and banks pay to borrow for three months)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/cbuilder?ticker1=.TEDSP%3AIND

High Yield bond spreads
http://www.bis.org/publ/qtrpdf/r_qt0812a.pdf

Asset Backed Commercial Paper rates and issuance
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/cp/

Bank lending standards
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/SnLoanSurvey/200811/fullreport.pdf

This report is a nice summary.
http://www.bis.org/publ/arpdf/ar2008e6.pdf


43 posted on 01/09/2009 2:20:56 PM PST by NC28203
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To: NormsRevenge

...interesting thread for the interesting times that haven’t arrived, yet.


44 posted on 01/09/2009 3:55:34 PM PST by familyop (combat engineer (combat), National Guard, '89-'96, Duncan Hunter or no-vote, http://falconparty.com/)
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To: NC28203
Oh, yes! And NOBODY noticed it untill last week!!! Get real!
45 posted on 01/09/2009 10:40:08 PM PST by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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