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The Department of Homeland Security in Action; Border Bullies
Michael Yon Online ^ | 1/4/09 | Michael Yon

Posted on 01/04/2009 11:15:38 PM PST by Defiant

The Department of Homeland Security in Action
04 January 2009

A Thai friend with whom I have traveled in Europe and Asia took time off from her job to meet me in Florida over the holidays. This was a good time for me, as it was between reporting stints in the war. My friend, Aew, had volunteered to work with me in Afghanistan or Iraq, but I declined because many people around me get shot or blown up. So we were looking forward to spending some vacation time together. She comes from a good family; and one that is wealthier than most American families. She didn’t come here for a job. Well-educated, she has a master's degree and works as a bank officer in Chiang Mai, Thailand. Aew was excited about the prospect of visiting America for the first time, though she had traveled to many other countries and had the passport stamps to prove it. She had no problem getting a U.S. visa, and she was paying her own way to fly.

Problems began when she entered the airport in Bangkok. Aew had a one-way ticket to America, because we would travel back in the direction of the war before she would go home, but we did not know our exact itinerary, so she hadn't bought a round-trip ticket back to Thailand. Before boarding the flight from Thailand to America, Northwest Airlines required Aew to buy a return ticket for 53,905 Thai bhat, or about $1,200 for a return ticket, else they would not let her board the flight. Aew paid by her credit card and pushed on.

Understandably, it raises suspicions when a foreign national doesn't have a round-trip ticket in an age of massive illegal immigration -- even if that person is an educated professional with a home and career, and even though Aew has a ten-year visa to the United States. Nevertheless, Aew paid approximately $1,200 for the return ticket, and so now had a return ticket.

That is how it began. She boarded the jet, eventually landed in Japan and then Minneapolis, before the final leg to Orlando. While thousands of people have canceled trips to Orlando due to the failing economy, Aew was coming with cash to spend in Florida. We would go to Disney, Kennedy Space Center and many other places; she'd be seeing the sights while I was meeting with military and other people in preparation for my upcoming return to Afghanistan for the long year ahead.

I first met Aew in Indonesia during a break from the Iraq war. I had gone to visit the site of the murder of my friend Beata Pawlak, who, along with about two hundred other people, was killed in a terrorist attack on the island of Bali.

After meeting in Indonesia, Aew and I stayed in touch. We traveled at different times to Singapore, Great Britain, Thailand and Nepal. Yet when Aew landed in Minneapolis, she was hustled away by an immigration officer. After approximately 24 hours of exhausting travel, Aew was detained for about 90 minutes without cause, and as a result, she missed her connecting flight to Orlando. She was brought into a small room where she saw a camera peering down. The officer conducting the shakedown wore a name tag: "Knapp." Five times she had traveled to China with zero problems, but Knapp grilled Aew with a long series of questions, rifling through her wallet, handling her credit cards and reading them carefully, questioning her piece by piece. Her passport, thick with extra pages, showed stamps from countries around the world. It contained the valid U.S. visa, and stamps and visas from countries she had traveled to, such as Great Britain, Japan, China, Nepal, Singapore, Indonesia, Myanmar, South Korea, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Brunei, New Zealand and Cambodia. She had traveled to some of these countries on multiple occasions, always paying her own way. She never had problems. Not even in China. We had toured Parliament together in London, on a private expedition led by Member of Parliament Adam Holloway. Aew was very interested to see the Royal Family, and was beside herself when I met Lady Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, who at that time read this website. The British, including military officers, had treated her very well and she left with positive memories of Great Britian.

But that was Great Britain. The American shakedown was just starting. Her sister, Puk, was sending me SMS messages from Thailand, worried that Aew seemed to have disappeared. I had bought Puk's daughters, North and Nurse, who are 8 and 9, a "talking globe" so they could track the travels of their Aunt Aew. The last time I saw North and Nurse, we had taken them to the Chiang Mai zoo, and also to an elephant camp where the elephants paint. Puk's husband, Bey, is a high-ranking Thai police officer who, as part of his duties, helps organize security for the Thai Royal Family.

While the U.S. Immigration officer named Knapp rifled through all her belongings, Aew sat quietly. She was afraid of this man, who eventually pushed a keyboard to Aew and coerced her into giving up the password to her e-mail address. Officer Knapp read through Aew's e-mails that were addressed to me, and mine to her. Aew would tell me later that she sat quietly, but “Inside I was crying.” She had been so excited to finally visit America. America, the only country ever to coerce her at the border. This is against everything I know about winning and losing the subtle wars. This is against everything I love about the United States. We are not supposed to behave like this. Aew would tell me later that she thought she would be arrested if she did not give the password.

The Government of the United States was reading the private e-mails of a U.S. citizen (me). The Department of “Homeland Security” was at work, intimidating visitors with legitimate visas. They had at least 24 hours to check her out before she landed in the United States. What kind of security is this? The Department of Homeland Security was at this moment more like the Department of Intimidation.

Officer Knapp called my phone as I was driving to the Orlando airport. I was going to be there two hours early to make sure I would be on time, so that she had a warm welcome to my country. But instead, Knapp was busy detaining Aew in Minneapolis and was on my cell phone asking all types of personal questions that he had no business asking. Sensing that Aew was in trouble, I answered his questions. Mr. Knapp was a rude smart aleck. The call is likely recorded and that recording would bear out my claims. This officer of the United States government, a grown man, had coerced personal information from a Thai woman who weighs 90 pounds. I asked Aew later why she gave him the e-mail password, and she answered simply, "I was afraid," and “I thought I would be arrested.”

What could I say to alleviate any of this? Could I say, "This is the U.S., nothing to be afraid of."? The world already sees us as senseless bullies. Aew might have been detained indefinitely; even I was concerned that the Department of Homeland Security might detain Aew for no reason. Essentially, she had no rights. They had already coerced her e-mail password out of her head through intimidation.

This does not make me feel safe: Our Homeland Security was focusing on a 40-year-old Thai bank officer while there are real bad guys out there. Thailand and the United States have had good relations for 175 years, and Thailand is one of the few countries in the world that is proud to say they are friends of the United States. There are no threats to Americans from Thai people -- who, among other relevant things, are mostly not Muslims. The King of Thailand was born in Massachusetts and graduated from Harvard. I have never seen the King with a gun; only a camera. His 2009 New Year’s speech was also a call for peace. The King and his family helped bring widespread education to Thailand, which created a special problem. Today there are large numbers of highly educated, successful women looking for highly educated men. I remember General (ret.) McCaffrey, our former drug Czar, telling me a couple of years ago that the King of Thailand was incredibly important in wiping out opium poppies in Thailand. The King of Thailand is highly respected by the government of the United States. He is a very good man.

During World War II, when the Japanese encouraged the Thai people to fight us, the Thai government actually declared war on the United States and Great Britain. But the Thai Ambassador in Washington refused to deliver the declaration of war. The upshot was that the United States refused to declare war on Thailand, and the Thai people formed a resistance against the Japanese.

Thai people refused to fight Americans. Instead, they attacked the Japanese. Has our government had problems recently with 90-pound, 40-year-old Thai women? Do they blow things up? Aew doesn’t even know how to light a match. She doesn’t smoke or drink, and is more upright than your average southern Baptist. She can’t even curse and gets upset if she hears me say a bad word about someone. “Michael!” she says, “Don’t say that!”

When I discovered that she had missed her flight, after about 24 hours of travel thus far, I called immigration at Minneapolis and asked to speak with Officer Knapp. Knapp got on the phone, but this time it was me questioning him. Knapp told me it was legal to read e-mails. I asked for his first name, but he was afraid to give his first name, which was rather strange for someone working within the confines of an airport where everyone has been searched for weapons. Where I work, in a war zone, soldiers give their first and last names and face Taliban and al Qaeda heads up, man to man. I write about al Qaeda, Taliban and other terrorist groups who kill thousands of people. My name is Michael Yon. My first name is Michael. Mr. Knapp hides behind a badge bullying a woman whose only activities are Yoga, reading, travel, and telling me what is healthy and unhealthy to eat. Knapp is a face of Homeland Security. How many other officers at Homeland Security bully 90-pound women, but are afraid to give their own names?

Knowing that Homeland Security officers are creating animosity and anxiety at our borders does not make me feel safer. How many truly bad guys slip by while U.S. officers stand in small rooms and pick on little women?

I have just returned from Afghanistan and Iraq on a trip with U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, and I can assure you that we can do better. We do not have to violate human rights and insult our closest allies to maintain our security.

Meanwhile, Aew had missed two flights; standby seats were full on the second flight, and I was considering flying from Florida to Minneapolis to get her myself. I did not want Aew to have to sleep in the airport overnight.

I had intended to show Aew a bit of my country. But it's taking a little while for her to get over her discomfort at being in America. She was treated better in China. So was I.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: homelandsecurity; sionnsar; yon
Disgusting.
1 posted on 01/04/2009 11:15:39 PM PST by Defiant
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To: Defiant

I am an American born and raised in New England . Last time I returned to the NY from Japan ( where I have resided for over 20 years ) , I was grilled for 1o minutes at immigation as if I was a suspected terrorist . Meanwhile , the Japanese and other non-Americans were walking through immigration like a breeze . Same thing happened in Hawaii last year . Question after question after question and my bags were opened and searched . Unreal .


2 posted on 01/04/2009 11:25:09 PM PST by sushiman
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To: Defiant

TSA...the next generation of jackbooted thugs.


3 posted on 01/04/2009 11:27:14 PM PST by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: Defiant

Does he have a case against DHS? I am getting sick and tired of the govt, and lawsuits seem to be the only think they understand.


4 posted on 01/04/2009 11:28:24 PM PST by PghBaldy (Obama showing off his crotch: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=550_1210277599)
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To: Defiant
♪ Look for the union label...
5 posted on 01/04/2009 11:28:35 PM PST by Jeff Chandler (You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body. -C.S. Lewis)
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To: Defiant; gubamyster; HiJinx; Allegra
Ping of interest.

Yon's take on a common peeve regarding our current security measures.

6 posted on 01/04/2009 11:33:55 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007 (Halo 3: Recon - Due out in Fall 2009!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Tom Daschle: The weenie that keeps on giving. Oh, and don’t forget to thank GW Bush for giving in to the Dems. RR would have beat them over the head with their effort to politicize homeland security.


7 posted on 01/04/2009 11:37:02 PM PST by Defiant (I for one welcome our new Obama Overlords.)
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To: PghBaldy
Border searches have been given a ton of leeway, perhaps too much. I would not mind if Congress placed statutory limits on the length of time, and what they could do. They ought to have some cause to go into this anal probe mode. Random douchebag behavior can't do any of us any good, and is like a reverse lottery, bound to strike some of us down if we are unlucky.

At the same time, placing restrictions on members of suspect groups, such as members of CAIR and other Jihadi organizations, should be common sense. We are hassling our own people instead of those who seek to kill us, in order not to single out the people who seek to kill us. That is how morons behave.

8 posted on 01/04/2009 11:43:18 PM PST by Defiant (I for one welcome our new Obama Overlords.)
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To: sushiman

Well, they had heard you were in the same city where ricin was released, so I guess they thought they had cause to suspect you.


9 posted on 01/04/2009 11:45:13 PM PST by Defiant (I for one welcome our new Obama Overlords.)
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To: sushiman
The stories I could tell.
I live on Taiwan and I get told stories like this about every 2-3 months.
I fly back to the US quite frequently on business and I have dealt with this also. What it has come down to is this, as soon as the BS starts, I open my shirt and show my 75th Rangers tattoo and ask them WTF is the problem?
It disgusts me that this is happening. Low-ball bidder - Low level contract winner.
10 posted on 01/04/2009 11:45:46 PM PST by Tainan (Yeah, its confusing. But what else is there to do?...Merry Christmas!)
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To: Defiant

This is what happens when people with no education/high school diploma/GED are given a little power. There is no right to read emails or to force someone to give you their email password. It’s no wonder the minimum wage powerhead was afraid to give his name. If you’re in the wrong, you tend to do that so you don’t get your name in the paper.

Morons, utter morons. Wait, that’s an insult to morons.


11 posted on 01/05/2009 12:01:59 AM PST by MissouriConservative (Tact is for people too ignorant to use sarcasm.)
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To: Defiant
Instead, they attacked the Japanese. Has our government had problems recently with 90-pound, 40-year-old Thai women?

The national-security state is always appealing when the people victimized by it are mere abstractions. Only when they become flesh-and-blood individuals, as they are for far too few Americans, do its costs become clearer.

12 posted on 01/05/2009 12:03:11 AM PST by untenured
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To: PghBaldy
There is a new policy that allows CBP officers to search electronic media, including your laptop. If your email doesn't reside on your laptop and is on a server then I am not sure if you are required to show it.

The downside for this woman is that if she said no, the officer might find or make up reasons she can't be granted entry. If you were an American citizen and refused this request they might decide to "temporarily" hold your laptop.

By not buying a round trip ticket in the first place she made herself a solid choice for a secondary search.

This computer search thing is new, but border searches are not. They have been around forever. Whenever you present yourself for entry you and all your belongings are subject to search.

13 posted on 01/05/2009 12:04:58 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: All

Everyone must be treated equally (bad)


14 posted on 01/05/2009 12:15:38 AM PST by woofie
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To: USNBandit
There is a new policy that allows CBP officers to search electronic media, including your laptop. If your email doesn't reside on your laptop and is on a server then I am not sure if you are required to show it.  While I don't disagree with your comments here, there is something left out of the equasion.  This person was granted a visa.  If she was granted a visa in the first place, then she should not be subject to the full court press upon entry into the United States.  The major portion of the burden should rest upon the people who granted the visa.  They should have done the background check and have determined if this person was high risk or not.  If she was, then she should have been denied entry up front.

The downside for this woman is that if she said no, the officer might find or make up reasons she can't be granted entry. If you were an American citizen and refused this request they might decide to "temporarily" hold your laptop.  Once again, either this person is worthy of being granted access to our nation or not.  If she is the laptop B.S. is nothing more than that.  Many people carry laptops.  Should we require that they all be inspected at our borders? If not, then taking these measures against a person who was deemed worthy of entering our nation is absurd on the face of it.  If we wish to deny entry to all foreigners, then so be it.  Just don't screw with people because you've got the power to do so.

By not buying a round trip ticket in the first place she made herself a solid choice for a secondary search.  Bull shit!  There are plenty of bonified reasons, serveral of which were provided in the original article here that completely nulify your premise.

This computer search thing is new, but border searches are not. They have been around forever. Whenever you present yourself for entry you and all your belongings are subject to search.  I don't think anyone is saying otherwise.  There is reasonable and unreasonable though, and this was clearly over the top.  There was no reasonble cause and selecting this woman for this type of interrogation was not only not called for, it bordered on criminal behavior.  This man Knapp should have to answer for his actions here.  IMO, his employment should be terminated.


15 posted on 01/05/2009 12:30:51 AM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: Defiant
If the post slips off the front page... Try this link.
16 posted on 01/05/2009 12:35:55 AM PST by Dawnsblood
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To: sushiman

Next time—try the Rio Grande. You’ll probably even get a free Medicaid card!


17 posted on 01/05/2009 12:40:43 AM PST by WKUHilltopper
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To: WKUHilltopper

” Next time—try the Rio Grande. You’ll probably even get a free Medicaid card!

ROTFLMFAO !!!!!


18 posted on 01/05/2009 12:50:55 AM PST by sushiman
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To: Defiant
>> Aew had a one-way ticket to America,

>> Has our government had problems recently with 90-pound, 40-year-old Thai women? Do they blow things up?

>> What could I say to alleviate any of this? Could I say, "This is the U.S., nothing to be afraid of."? The world already sees us as senseless bullies.

Senseless bullies?
19 posted on 01/05/2009 1:34:48 AM PST by Gene Eric
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To: Gene Eric

Well, here is another situation you should consider.

My wife is an immigrant from Laos. We are legally married for 2 years now with a newborn.

Before we were married, her mother came to the States several times to visit her. Always no problem. Even 3 of her other children came to school here on student visas. They all went back home to Laos.

Now, we want her mother to come visit. She is 50 years old and married with husband in Laos. She cannot get a visa to come see us.

Why? Who knows.

Last year, I and my mother went to Laos and the American Embassy to vouch for her and give all details about where she was going to stay and who was going to support her (6 mos tourist visa). I went with her and talked to the interviewer at the Embassy. All I can say is, they were bullies to her. Yes, bullies. They asked senseless questions because they already knew they were going to turn her down. They were total a**holes to me. When my mother and I started asking questions to the American interviewers, we got stuttering ambiguous answers.

My final question to their boss was, ‘So will she ever be allowed to come to the US to see her grandchild?’ He said, ‘No, it does not seem likely at this time.’

Also, the American Embassy actually has a racket going whereby the applicants pay $100 to apply for a visa, it’s non-refundable, and there is a 90% turn-down rate. They probably get 20 applicants per day turned down.

The salaries Lao people might avg $30-$80 per month. Only the connected communists make more. A nurse makes about $80 per month. A doctor makes about $42 per month. Yes, that’s true. I asked both at a local clinic while getting malaria medication.

Imagine taking 1-2 months of your salary to apply for even a tourist visa and getting ripped off.

Like the previous person said. Try the Southern border before taking the legal route through an Embassy (or an airport).

In my case:

Senseless? Yes
Bullies? Yes

The whole family thinks that way now. Even I and my mother think that now. I’ll say that it’s not the American people, it’s our government. Don’t call me or my family un-American. We’ve been here 3 centuries. Family has a lot of veterans.


20 posted on 01/05/2009 2:01:20 AM PST by AlmaKing
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To: Defiant

I hope that your friend went on to have a good trip despite what occurred when she first came in.

But, remember nobody at Customs knows your friend. They do not know that she is an upright citizen. They’ve never seen her before. I’ve read about the laptop thing. That has been going on for a little while now.

I do think it was crazy that they made her purchase a return ticket. That I do not understand.

We live in a different world now.


21 posted on 01/05/2009 2:45:55 AM PST by HollyB
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To: Defiant

The only problem with targeting only specific groups is that is there are fresh faces out and sleepers who wish us harm, lone wolves, lone psychos & terrorists. There are those who do not fit the stereotypical mold.

My mother went on a church trip to Israel. One of of the people who went was asked how he/she could afford the trip. When that person said that God helped provide the money, Mom didn’t see the person for a few more hours. That person only meant that she had prayed for the financial ability to go on her trip and somehow it worked out. It was a stupid thing to say. As for my Mom, she was in a private room with each item of her bag pulled out, unnpacked and searched in every crevis. Somehow when Israel does it, they are superior, but when Americans do it, we are harassing. And that was before 9/11.

I don’t like it either, but there are reasons for it.


22 posted on 01/05/2009 2:56:22 AM PST by HollyB
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To: HollyB

Don’t buy a one-way ticket, even if you don’t know when you want to return home. Most foreign countries require visitors to have a round-trip ticket before they are allowed to enter.


23 posted on 01/05/2009 3:11:08 AM PST by BARLF
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To: BARLF

Thanks for the heads up. I heard about the extra screening, but just didn’t know it would be required for overseas travel.


24 posted on 01/05/2009 3:22:02 AM PST by HollyB
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To: Jeff Chandler

Your papers please you are free to travel what a whiner!


25 posted on 01/05/2009 4:18:27 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: WKUHilltopper

Now thats just funny.LOL


26 posted on 01/05/2009 4:44:38 AM PST by imahawk (Defeat liberalism, its the right thing to do for America.)
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To: DoughtyOne
“By not buying a round trip ticket in the first place she made herself a solid choice for a secondary search. Bull shit! There are plenty of bonified reasons, serveral of which were provided in the original article here that completely nulify your premise.”

Actually, to qualify as a visitor you must have a return ticket, it may be an “open return” date on the ticket, but you must have a return ticket. This is to ensure the visitor is just that, a visitor. I suspect if she had bought a return ticket prior to arriving at the airport she would have missed all the trouble.

I am NOT saying the Thug acted correctly, far from it, the guy is a complete and utter disgrace to all Americans, it's just of the entire (excellent) article, this part is where Yon is not that strong.

(Scold on-—/Notice how I didn't use profanity. We are not Kos Kids or Huff-Puffers, we are adults and should act that way when we disagree-—/scold off)

Cheers.

27 posted on 01/05/2009 6:02:24 AM PST by Hulka
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To: sushiman
I had similar experiences back in the 80’s when i traveled a lot. This is not a new thing. Meanwhile 10,000 invaders crossed the Southern Border with no visa or passport.
28 posted on 01/05/2009 6:09:09 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ (Nemo me impune lacessit.)
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To: Defiant
Disgusting? Partly.

My bet is, the incident would have never happened if she simply had a return trip ticket, back out of the U.S.

Did the CBP Officer go overboard in his inspection of this foreign visitor?

Possibly, I would have to review all the facts in the case, and that goes beyond what is written in the essay, and into any official douments, etc. Then possibly take action against the CBPO, if warranted.

Have your ducks lined up when you travel internationally folks, like it or not.

29 posted on 01/05/2009 7:02:04 AM PST by gitmogrunt (FLAMES UP!!!!...Do you still think Bush is a Conservative?)
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To: gitmogrunt
Wooo. .. I re-read the article, she did have a return trip ticket!!....my error.

In that case,Fire the CBPO and his managers and Congress for creating this mess!!!

30 posted on 01/05/2009 7:06:44 AM PST by gitmogrunt (FLAMES UP!!!!...Do you still think Bush is a Conservative?)
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To: DoughtyOne
Messenger taking fire once again. I didn't say I support any of these policies, I'm just telling you what they are.

If you don't want something searched then don't take it to the border.

The reason that CBP searches electronic media is because they have always been allowed to search documents in the applicants possession. The lawyers at DHS decided that the legal authority to search all of your effects at the border extended to the data on your electronic devices. You asked if all laptops should be inspected at the border? No, but every electronic device is subject to search, at the discretion of CBP

When somebody shows up with what was previously a one way ticket the CBP officer has to figure out whether that applicant intends to overstay their visa. In this case a passport indicating frequent foreign travel and return to her native country should have been enough.

We also don't know why she was selected for secondary. It might have been her previously one way ticket. It might have been a random selection for secondary. There is no required level of suspicion to be sent to secondary. CBP could subject every person crossing into the U.S. for secondary, but then we would have people lined up for days in Customs. You may not like it, but that is the way the laws are written.

31 posted on 01/05/2009 7:31:24 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Hulka
By not buying a round trip ticket in the first place she made herself a solid choice for a secondary search. Bull shit! There are plenty of bonified reasons, serveral of which were provided in the original article here that completely nulify your premise.

Actually, to qualify as a visitor you must have a return ticket, it may be an “open return” date on the ticket, but you must have a return ticket. This is to ensure the visitor is just that, a visitor. I suspect if she had bought a return ticket prior to arriving at the airport she would have missed all the trouble.  Okay, then you can't think of a single reason why this should not be the case.  I can't explain that away.  What I can do is provide one very simple reason.  The traveler is not returning directly home, thus the return ticket does not exist.  Are we NAZIs or not?  That is the question that becomes more clear as thugs like this come to surface.

I am NOT saying the Thug acted correctly, far from it, the guy is a complete and utter disgrace to all Americans, it's just of the entire (excellent) article, this part is where Yon is not that strong.  I agree that the article is good, but I don't agree that Yon is wrong here.  I say it's a good article because it highlights a serious/critical problem.  While this person from a friendly nation is being badgered, the goons doing the badgering are pulling themselves off other people whose nation of origion are serious threats.  The southern Asian region has some serious players from nations brimming with people who do not like the United States.  Who did this punk decide to harass?  Why of course, a good person from a friendly nation.  Profiling is not allowed, thus we must spread the pain to all travelers.  Don't discourage the terrorists from trying.  Simply turn our borders into checkpoint charlie where good people fear for their own safety as much or more than the terrorists do, and for good reason.   What bothers me is that otherwise good people actually try to explain this stuff away.  "Oh, of course she was checked.  She had no return ticket."  Good grief.  Put your thinking cap on there bud.

(Scold on-—/Notice how I didn't use profanity. We are not Kos Kids or Huff-Puffers, we are adults and should act that way when we disagree-—/scold off)  Tell you what, when we have NAZIesque tactics taking place at our borders causing our friends serious trouble, you're going to find that my profanity filter has a serious hole in it.

Cheers.  Back at you.

32 posted on 01/06/2009 10:54:15 AM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: USNBandit
Messenger taking fire once again. I didn't say I support any of these policies, I'm just telling you what they are.  If you don't want something searched then don't take it to the border.  No, you didn't just state what they are.  And here you continue along the same line of thought.  You explain why it is reasoned for the policies to be what they are.  And if they are reasoned, then nothing is wrong with what happened to this woman.  Well, sorry but there is definately something wrong with the actions of this border agent.

The reason that CBP searches electronic media is because they have always been allowed to search documents in the applicants possession. The lawyers at DHS decided that the legal authority to search all of your effects at the border extended to the data on your electronic devices. You asked if all laptops should be inspected at the border? No, but every electronic device is subject to search, at the discretion of CBP.  I don't think either of us has a problem with incidental searches based on reasonable cause.  What I object to is this person being singled out without cause.  This is not acceptable.  You should realize that.  You shouldn't be quoting our border policies.  You focus on that rather then the injustice done here.  This person was abused.  In reaction you quote the border policies of the U.S.  That was inappropriate, and it's why I took you to task.

When somebody shows up with what was previously a one way ticket the CBP officer has to figure out whether that applicant intends to overstay their visa. In this case a passport indicating frequent foreign travel and return to her native country should have been enough.  We're in agreement here.  This person should have received nothing more than a cursory contact with our border agent.  Instead she was deemed to be public enemy number one.  That causes me grave concern.  This cannot continue if we are intent on keeping at least some friends on the planet.

We also don't know why she was selected for secondary. It might have been her previously one way ticket. It might have been a random selection for secondary. There is no required level of suspicion to be sent to secondary. CBP could subject every person crossing into the U.S. for secondary, but then we would have people lined up for days in Customs. You may not like it, but that is the way the laws are written.  Once again, you are reverting to the cover story for the border agents.  Instead of recognizing the inappropriate nature of this confrontion and acknowedging there can NEVER be an excuse for behavior like this, you prattle off policy to cover for the inappropriate behavior.  I'm sure the border agents in Germany during the second world war could prattle off some equally reasoned policies to justify their actions.  Those policies were wrong and a policy that allows for incidents like this one are also wrong.  Quoting laws to excuse it away borders on something a fascist would do.

What happened to this woman was wrong, and there can never be policies to explain it away.  If we start explaining away problems like this one, then we've just become what the terrorists hoped we would.  We will have ceased to be a sound nation, and will have to no small degree have become thugs ourselves.

33 posted on 01/06/2009 11:10:25 AM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Open return tickets work just fine, as are other RTW options, as well. A one way ticket is a flag, for the reason cited and has noting to do with terrorists or not. It has been in place well before 9-11.

If you are looking for me to defend the thuggish actions on the part of the ICE Agent, won't find it here. I travel in excess of 100K international a year and have seen all types, coming and going. The worst offenders are the brain-dead TSA goons, not ICE. It is usual fair for TSA to throw their weight around, whereas ICE Agents are not so usually inclined.

Well done, you used adult words this time.

34 posted on 01/06/2009 1:11:58 PM PST by Hulka
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To: DoughtyOne
I don't think either of us has a problem with incidental searches based on reasonable cause.

You don't know what I think. I'm not trying to tell anybody what I think. My posts were not supposed to support CBP policy, only to inform readers on this thread that might not know what the policy is.

Do you think being informed is important? I hope you do. You should know what to expect when you try to cross into or out of the United States.

No, you didn't just state what they are.

Hey, let's see what I posted.

The lawyers at DHS decided that the legal authority to search all of your effects at the border extended to the data on your electronic devices.

Let me reiterate what the law says about Reasonable Expectation of Privacy and Border Searches. There is no legal Reasonable Expectation of Privacy at the Border. There is no required level of suspicion to go through all of your belongings. It is that simple.

If you want to make it even easier you can blame that all on me, since I made up all those laws myself.

35 posted on 01/06/2009 1:30:09 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit

You still haven’t got a clue what I am saying.

Here’s the extension of your flawed logic.

I explain that my child received corporal punishment at school that went way over the line. The child received broken bones.

Then you explain that if I don’t want my child subject to this, I should pick another school.

No! Emphatically not! The behavior was not justified by it’s corporal punishment policy any more than the actions at the airport in this case were warranted under current law.

Sighting current law does not excuse away what took place, so quit quoting current law to me. I know what the laws are. They DO NOT justify what took place, end of story.


36 posted on 01/06/2009 1:55:08 PM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: Hulka

I used adult words both times. Adults will know why.


37 posted on 01/06/2009 1:56:11 PM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: DoughtyOne
I know what the laws are.

Evidently you don't, because according to your own words you aren't opposed to searches when reasonable suspicion exists. I have pointed out on all my posts that reasonable suspicion is not required.

The only part of this search, which if it happened they way the author said, was wrong was searching email if it did not reside on the computer. If the CBPO asked for the password for emails stored on her computer then he was within in his authority.

38 posted on 01/06/2009 2:02:23 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Defiant


YOUR TSA, ON GUARD FOR YOU!
39 posted on 01/06/2009 2:19:51 PM PST by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Requiescat In Pace)
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To: Kozak

Only really stupid people search a guy like that and let a jihadi walk past because they want the selection to remain random. When reality hits and people are dying, such stupidity goes by the wayside. We are not there yet, which means because of the stupid people, some other people will die.


40 posted on 01/06/2009 3:11:42 PM PST by Defiant (I for one welcome our new Obama Overlords.)
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To: DoughtyOne

Sure.


41 posted on 01/06/2009 3:50:03 PM PST by Hulka
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To: USNBandit
I notice you didn't have the intellectual honesty to address the example I provided for you, not that I'm all that surprised.

I know what the laws are.

Evidently you don't, because according to your own words you aren't opposed to searches when reasonable suspicion exists. I have pointed out on all my posts that reasonable suspicion is not required.  As a matter of fact, you did not mention this in all your posts.  Try reading your first post on this thread.  I won't be bothering to check the others for you.

You have cited several laws available to the customs agents at our borders.  This you did despite claiming that you didn't agree with what he did.  Nope, you seemed to think that even if you didn't agree with him, it was still necessary to provide song and verse to cover for his actions.  Is Thailand known as haven of anti-U. S. sentiment?  Are terrorists leaving it's borders to carry out acts of violence anywhere?  That's the question here.  It may not be a question you can grasp, or care to grasp, but it is a very relevant question.  Is this person a likely candidate for carrying out a terrorist act within the United States?  You seem to think that random searches are a great idea.  And if we were talking about someone coming from the Middle-East or an Asian nation with a known problem, hey all other considerations aside, I would grant that random searches were warranted.

Look, there are all sorts of tools to law enforcement and homeland security that our security agencies are thankfully not subliminal enough to utilize when it is inappropriate.  Those laws are there to make it possible to check out the highly suspicious.  Now granting that random searches are not completely a bad idea, there is still some common sense to be factored in here.  This butt head Knapp is a total ass.  You have admitted so much in your comments, stating you didn't agree with what went on here.  We wouldn't even be discussing this if you had left it at that.  Instead you felt compelled to defend his actions by stating what laws were available to him.  So it's quite clear, although you have stated you don't agree with his actions, you have spent way too much time explaining how he was operating within his rights for me not to question what your real motives are.

Stop the lady from Thailand.  Ask her some questions.  Take a look at her passport.  Try to use some of that brain God gave you, and realize she was a person who traveled a lot.  And when she tells you that she is not returning directly home from the Untied States, try to use the clues right there in front of your nose.  Knapp sounds as if he didn't have two brain cells to rub together, and never the less, you quote song and verse.

Yes I am aware of the laws.  And no I don't think a pinhead should roust a five foot tall older lady from Thailand, without a little more reasonable cause.  And don't give me that random crap.  It's a hooey excuse and you know it.

The round-trip ticket thing is about as stupid an excuse as I have ever heard, for blowing this situation out of control.  She had a reasonable explanation.  She had the passport stamps to make it crystal clear that she traveled a lot.

The only part of this search, which if it happened they way the author said, was wrong was searching email if it did not reside on the computer. If the CBPO asked for the password for emails stored on her computer then he was within in his authority.

Can't help yourself can you?  You stated you didn't agree with what Knapp did, but once again you defend his actions.  Random searches should be relegated to problematic nations.  If a random search must be done on people like this lady, then a cursory search could be conducted in short order.  If anything triggered a wider search, then that could be executed.

Trying to make the case that a possible immigration problem is cause for a the full court press process as if this lady was a terrorist is a good example of why folks think these agents are dumb as bricks, and abusive to the point of bordering on the Gestapo.  This guy should go back to being a dog catcher or working the grill at the local McDonalds.  Of course that's if he has the mental faculties to take that kind of pressure.

42 posted on 01/06/2009 11:26:58 PM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Is Thailand known as haven of anti-U. S. sentiment?

Not on the whole, but there is a large muslim extremist movement in the south end of Thailand.

Terrorism is not the only responsibility of CBP. They also are trying to stop illegal immigration, smuggling to avoid duty, and smuggling of contraband.

Do drugs originate in Thailand? Yes. Child pornography? Yes. Human trafficking? Yes.

It sounds like you only want to search people that look like terrorists. If CBP only did that then the port I live near would have missed the Navy pilot smuggling ecstasy, the Canadian constabulary chief smuggling 150lbs. of marijuana, or the convicted child molester traveling with his child that he had molested. It's not just about terrorism.

43 posted on 01/07/2009 8:07:11 AM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: USNBandit

Holding this woman up for ninety minutes and forcing her to provide secret passwords for her computer and miss connecting flights was unwarranted. There’s no defense of this man’s actions. This woman should have been able to have been assessed in a matter of minutes.

If the woman isn’t a solid citizen, then don’t provide her a visa. If the visa is granted, then treat her in a humane manner.


44 posted on 01/07/2009 9:40:49 AM PST by DoughtyOne (I see that Kenya's favorite son has a new weekly Saturday morning radio show.)
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If you are visiting the USA and think you can come and go as you please without being asked questions you are wrong!!


45 posted on 03/21/2009 12:59:32 PM PDT by BCTCNT
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To: DoughtyOne

Just because a visa is granted does not allow her to come to the USA. They are told that when applying and if you cannot remeber that far back, maybe you should stay home and not visit the USA!!!


46 posted on 03/21/2009 2:24:31 PM PDT by BCTCNT
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