Posted on 01/02/2009 8:40:29 AM PST by jmaroneps37
Ted Turner, Sam Donaldson, and David Rockefeller are among tens of thousands of Americans claiming to be farmers who are getting paid by the United States government for NOT growing certain crops.
They DON’T grow corn soy, sugar, cotton peanuts and other crops. They don’t grow rice or tobacco and DON’T heard certain animals. Some of these “not growing” deals paid big money to people who are already very wealthy. I say great for them, this is America and we are capitalists!
I want my payments too. I don’t own a farm so I can’t make much of a case for not growing rice or peanuts on my little lawn.
Nevertheless, I can promise NOT to buy an American car.
The government pays these “farmers” not to grow stuff and they tell us this helps the economy. I can’t figure that out, but I can read. I can see that American auto manufacturers GM and FORD are in trouble.
They are in a situation where they lose money every time they sell a car. GM loses more than $1200 and Ford loses over $450 every time a salesman clinches a deal. I want to help.
I promise not to buy a car from these guys because I want to help them, but I want mine. I’m not greedy. I don’t want a lot, just say about $600 for not buying a Chevy, about 200 bucks for NOT buying a Ford should do the trick.
If nobody bought another American car think of how much money they would save. There would be so much more money to give to union retirees who make up more than ten times the number of actual workers.
...auto manufacturers could turn their plants into non- growing farms….. Subsides of all kinds have to end…..
(Excerpt) Read more at collinsreport.net ...
Getting rid of “farm” subsidies would probably be good for real farms. They wouldn’t face competition from non producing competitors.
This is why food prices won't deflate with our salaries and house values and oil. And don't just blame democrats. GWB and house republicans helped Pelosi pass bill that re-authorizes tarrifs on ethanol, when food and gas prices were through the roof last year. Part of why 2008 was another slaughter for republicans. If you want to depend on the argument that everyone does it, it only works if you are out of power.
Paying Toyoda and Honda not to build cars would work better than paying UAW. Instead we are paying UAW to build cars that will not be bought.
Farm subsidies had their purpose once, and that purpose is gone, but just like everything else created by the government it has lasted long past its usefulness.
More union hating drek from those too dumb to connect the dots on the real story and people behind this mess. The Wall Streeters and bankers with their credit default swaps and OTC derivatives and mortgage backed securities
You realize that at least before the economic downturn, no company on the planet *sold* more vehicles than General Motors, right? Not even Toyota, although there was a lot of talk about Toyota expecting to overtake GM.
Second, GM consistently sells two or three of the top ten *selling* vehicles in the US, typically the Silverado, Impala, and Cobalt.
Lastly, even Toyota is now posting a loss.
It's not just UAW cars that aren't selling well, and GM isn't in trouble for lack of selling enough cars. It's that they can't sell them for a profit.
*I* won’t buy a car from a company that ripped me off. I hope lots of other folks pledge the same.
I’ve given up on the union hating crowd and their global warming style rhetoric. Granted there are problems with unions but ignoring reality is just plain stupid. My neighbor was a company man till he retired before 50 years old with his 6 figure per year pension. Most of his career he spent his days playing golf on both union and company owned golf courses.
The big 3 bailout would be a lot easier to swallow if we hadn’t had trillions stolen from us by bankers who now say “screw you serfs”.
I understand all that but we are not paying Toyoda to make cars unbought, only UAW cars. If the feds paid half the cost of each UAW car then even more cars would be bought creating more UAW jobs. I wouldnt recommend this type of national Socialism.
Yeah they are rabidly anti union. Like they are kings of the world and their fellow Americans should be their slaves and work for peon wages. Sick libertarianism
You are thinking too small. You are obviously a neophyte. This is how you do it. I want , oh, 2 or 3 billion for not buying a car. I want it by the end of January. Now this is the critical part. Once I receive it, I will donate 500 million to assorted congress people. I will spend most of the rest of it thereby ensuring the ongoing employment of thousands of people. So it's a win win win for everybody!
I thought I heard a certain animal once.
I'm a union member, and union hater. The Postal Union ensures that we get raises almost every year (Not in 2009, though). They're small (1.2 - 1.3%), but are accompanied by step increases every 30-36 weeks, and COLA adjustments twice a year, when applicable.
On the other end of the spectrum, management suffers with workers that don't work and can't be fired. The union grieves any perceived injustice, and makes them pay. An example:
Over the past few years, custodians were understaffed in some locations. People volunteered and worked overtime to cover the shortage, and were paid time and a half. Then they filed a grievance because the Postal Service didn't hire adequate staff, and won a $2,700.00 per person settlement paid out to all current custodians, whether affected or not. Some weren't even employed there yet when the grievance was heard.
I could go on and on, and make you really angry, but since it's a new year, I'll be good. It's just hard to go to work every day in an environment where you do your job well, and others sleep half of the shift - Change is out of the question, and your suggestions are not welcome.
More union hating drek from those too dumb to connect the dots on the real story and people behind this mess.
It is not "union hating drek" to point out that the Big 3 have an unsustainable business model because their total compensation for their union workers is greater than their competitors (Honda and Toyota) who build attractively priced cars which hold their value better and have better frequency of repair records. Neither is it "union hating drek" to point out that the UAW has blocked attempts to integrate suppliers into the assembly line as has been done in some of the foreign plants of the Big 3.
Get the chip off your shoulder and realize that it time to embrace some painful changes to ensure the best long-term viability and standard of living for the current UAW workers. Fighting these changes is a sure road to unemployment and poverty.
BTW it is also not ‘union hating drek” to protest that GMAC is using bailout money to offer 5 year, 0% interest loans to to people with 621 FICO scores when 723 is average. I am sick of bailing out people who continue to throw good money after bad...
Crop subsidies for market purposes are one thing, but conservation payments are another and should not be lumped in under the heading “subsidy.” Farmers and Ranchers here enroll under a long term leasing agreement under the CRP. This is an agreement not to crop or graze riparian lands, to fence them from livestock and to establish woody riparian vegetation. Managing the land in this manner improves fisheries habitat and advances the river to “proper functioning condition.”
Riparian land is often the richest land and the land where water is most available. The farmer/rancher is taking this out of production to be managed for a public purpose and should be legitimately compensated a rental fee for doing so. The same is true of wetland and other such conservation agreements. If the government took your property for its own use, wouldn’t you expect to be compensated? The CRP allows the farmer/rancher to continue to own the underlying fee title and get a reasonable rental rate for its use to advance public policy. In our area, crop values (hay and pasture) are low, so the rental rate is competitive.
People who feel that the public should be able to demand you use your property for the community interest like to paint these payments as “being paid for not growing things” rather than being paid for managing the land the way the government wants it to be managed for the public and not in your own private interest.
Get smart. You are focusing your ire on the wrong people. These union schmoes.
Look to Wall St and bankers
I’ve been a union member too. Maybe it’s just postal workers are complete wastes of space.
Get smart. You are focusing your ire on the wrong people. These union schmoes.Look to Wall St and bankers
There is plenty of blame/(ir)responsibility to go around. I opposed and still oppose the TARP. Our tax money was given without adequate accountability. May God judge those execs who had seared consciences that permitted them to take bonuses from TARP funds. At the same time the Big 3 management, union leaders, and workers are making some very bad decisions using taxpayer money. Some of these decisions cause me some deja vu.
My grandfather owned a optical wholesale factory in Kansas City during the 1940s. The plant was a union shop. The union leader came to my grandfather and demanded a raise. My grandfather told the union official that he could not afford to pay the raise and offered to show him the books. The union leader said he didn't care and would initiate a strike if my grandfather didn't agree to the raise. My grandfather told the union leader that such a strike would leave him no choice but to close the factory and liquidate the assets for whatever he could get. The union leader said "you won't close." My grandfather said, "Try me and see." You can predict the rest. The union went out on strike. My grandfather closed the factory, liquidated the assets, and paid off his creditors. Liquidating his business' assets did not leave much for a new start. He then moved his family to Florida and opened a small retail business as an optician. This was a nylon parachute - not a golden parachute. My grandfather ran into the ex-union leader and several of the ex-workers years later. All of the ex-workers and the ex-union leader apologized for their actions that led to the plant closing. Times were tough and they only found lower paying jobs with worse conditions. My grandfather, as a small business owner, had taken a minimal salary and reinvested the profits into the business. The difference between his salary as owner/manager and the lowest paid worker was much smaller than is common today.
Today's union workers need to take a close look at the effects of globalization and make the concessions required to keep the businesses solvent. Managers need to lead the way in these efforts, making their own concessions and getting rid of embarrassing perks like country club memberships and corporate retreats at expensive hotels. We all need to work together at companies through these hard times so we come through with core skills and key assets in tact. We need to voluntarily take the short term hit for the long term gain.
As a society, we cannot keep increasing the tax burden on the productive members of society to pay for everyone's pet program and to support those who because of sloth or intemperance cannot or will not do their part to support themselves. Charity is one thing. Entitlement is another. My family has worked hard our entire lives and tried to make prudent financial decisions. We give to worthy causes. But we also need to be able to save for our own provision in our old age. I don't want to be taxed to bailout those who misused credit and lived imprudently. Such is the cost of liberty - you make your decisions and you accept the consequences.
My point is that you are going on about unionized autoworkers and automobile company bailouts which are quite small when stacked up against Wall St/banker bailouts so I fail to see your logic.
You squander your time slamming blue collar miscreants while white collar thieves are the real culprits making them mega millionaires from their Wall St derivatives factories. Credit default swaps too
Going by your home page you are a technical person. You are not a paper shuffler like out on Wall St. So why give them a pass? I daresay you have more in common with a unionized machinist that an asset shuffler who got millions in bonuses from concocting credit default swaps
A trillion dollars here and there, and soon the US government's financial rescue programs start adding up to big money.
But how high is the cost, really?
One tally, which puts the Great Bailout somewhere north of $8 trillion, has been making the rounds in news reports, on websites, and on Capitol Hill. At that rate, some people ask if we could just use the money to cut every American a $26,000 check and kiss the recession goodbye.
The reality, however, is that the government really isn't committing that large a sum to rescuing the economy. The vast bulk of the rescue efforts are loans or investments – and will end up as a mix of gains and losses to government.
That doesn't mean the cost will be small. Just the rescue of mortgage linchpins Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac could run into hundreds of billions of dollars.
What's clear is that the Treasury and Federal Reserve have raised their own exposure to the performance of the US economy – in the hopes of reviving it.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1230/p01s01-usec.html
My point is that you are going on about unionized autoworkers and automobile company bailouts which are quite small when stacked up against Wall St/banker bailouts so I fail to see your logic.
I agree that the Wall St. bailout has been bigger thus far and stated that I opposed it. I'll add vehemently opposed it..
My logic in opposing the auto bailout is that it is the next in what will be a string of "I want a bail out too." The point is that we can't afford any of these and that they exacerbate the real problem.
I think GM and Chrysler need bankruptcy. GMAC and Ditech are a black hole sucking out capital. People with 623 FICO scores likely won't be able to afford the payments as the economy worsens. All have to get their costs under control. That will not happen with the current labor rates and the costly jobs bank. Ford might make it if the UAW goes along. Restructuring GM and Chrysler would help this.
The next problems will be the next waves of resetting mortgages and the coming home equity loan crisis. We can't afford bail-outs here either.
Government spending at all levels needs to be cut, not expanded. That will be a tough, but required choice.
You asked about my situation as a technical person. I work in the Research Labs of what used to be a major corporation. I have been through at least one downsizing each of the past ten years, often two. That says something about my work record and skill set. Still, there is a reasonable probability that I will lose my job this year. I am right at that age and length of service where the only prudent choice is to ride it out, even if the work environment sucks. (It does.) Every tax dollar the government takes from me is one less that is in my emergency fund. My family and I have always tried to be prudent in our savings and purchases. I resent having worked very hard and going without things we wanted so we could minimize debt and save prudently just to be taxed to bail out those who were profligate.
You asked about my situation as a technical person. I work in the Research Labs of what used to be a major corporation. I have been through at least one downsizing each of the past ten years, often two. That says something about my work record and skill set. Still, there is a reasonable probability that I will lose my job this year. I am right at that age and length of service where the only prudent choice is to ride it out, even if the work environment sucks. (It does.) Every tax dollar the government takes from me is one less that is in my emergency fund. My family and I have always tried to be prudent in our savings and purchases. I resent having worked very hard and going without things we wanted so we could minimize debt and save prudently just to be taxed to bail out those who were profligate.
The profligate and degenerate get rewarded. Must be because the profligates are in control of our various levels of government and the way they spend. You are an anachronism. There must be something in the Bible about that
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