Posted on 12/27/2008 5:23:50 AM PST by marktwain
I have never had a firearms instuctor, firarms competitor or firearms student tell me any different.
You shoot until the threat is over. Period.
Call any gunshop and they will tell you the exact same. Call any police officer or lawyer. They will tell you the same.
No one will tell you any different.
You are almost there and if we were talking about this taking place at the mall or the movie theater you would be correct. The only thing that you are leaving out is the fact that the children were in the care of the grandfather and located on HIS property. Absent a court order to hand the children over, it is his DUTY to keep the children safely on his property.
If the bad guy is sitting on the ground, disarmed, after only one shot, the threat is over and no more shots are required.
You shoot until the threat is over.
The father was shot once, which caused multiple wounds.
Your theoretical scenarios are just a joke.
I forgot to mention.
When the police come for the report and to sweep up the mess, make sure you explain through your lawyer, you DID NOT SHOOT TO KILL.
You shot to stop the threat.
Shooter 2.5 posted:
“The father was shot once, which caused multiple wounds.”
marktwain replied:
Interesting information that adds to the discussion.
Knowing the victim, knowing he is involved in a custody battle with your grandaughter, knowing that his death would solve the whole matter. These facts alone can cloud an automatic well trained response to a perceived threat. The shooter’s age, his state of mind, arming himself but not calling the police or instructing some one to do so, also are of concern.
Maybe one shot was too many. This is what prompted my “multiple gunshot” statement.
My post #9:
If I ever use my revolver in self-defense, I’ll keep shooting until all my bullets are gone. And I just won’t give a flying fig what you think that indicates. (What RG thinks that indicates)
That post was in response to RG, an idiot. You can ally yourself with him/her/it if you wish, but I don’t recommend it.
I was trained, by LEOs. I own my Taurus revolver for self-defense. If I ever use it for that purpose, I will shoot every bullet in it, at the threat to my life or my loved one’s life, whether wildlife or human.
I am a retired nurse. I have been in ER and neuropsych violent situations. I actually know what I am talking about.
You do what you wish. RG is an idiot who has never owned or used a firearm. I’m starting to think you are too.
I noticed his friends and family are posting on multiple websites. I haven’t found a single one defending the mother. I’ll keep looking.
welovebrice wrote on Dec 23, 2008 9:14 AM:
” As to readalong’s comments, please get your facts straight before you post. If your facts are coming from his psychotic wife, well there ya go. He has not ever been in drug rehab. Ask her about her addiction to pain and diet pills? Ask her why she chooses to drink on top of these medications. There have been many times we have been out to dinner and she was taking pills and drinking margaritas to the point she was unable to function. Brice tried to make their marriage work. He went to counseling. Did she also tell you that she ran up $40000 in credit cards and they had to file bankruptcy and he kept working to try to pay for it all. Did she tell you that they had to move from their home because it was going to be foreclosed on because of her out of control spending? You are accusing Brice of an affair, but he did not start a relationship until after he seperated. Did his wife tell you that she constantly talked to her exboyfriend behind Brice’s back? Did she tell you that she is also on anti depressants and she is bipolar along with many in her family? Did she tell you that Brice moved from their home and didnt take most things not to interupt the childrens lives? She moved in with her grandparents because she cannot handle the kids by herself. She cannot keep a job. She has gotten fired from all that she has had. Her grandparents keep bailing her out because she is pathetic. She does not deserve those children. The poor son, she has him believing his always sick or hurting because that is how she is. All Brice wanted was to see the kids and because she wanted him and he didnt want her, she didnt allow him to see the kids. Also, about poor mr berwick, when brice was trying to collect his belongings in Brice’s home, did anyone tell you that he was in Brice’s face threatening him? Brice didnt get a gun and shoot him. He didnt want trouble, he respected Mr. Berwick and removed his belongings peacefully. Did she also tell you that she removed the children from school so he couldnt even see them at school for a few minutes? She is an awful person. I hold her fully at blame for Brices’s death. She knows that Brice was an awesome father and because of her selfishness the children lost. If you know Brice to write about him he was a gentle loving soul with a great amount of love for God, his children, and people. If you ever needed a hug, his were the best. If you ever needed a smile, he had the words to make you smile. If you needed to feel loved, he went out of his way. God was ready for his angel to come home. We miss you. “
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welovebrice wrote on Dec 23, 2008 9:18 AM:
” When you see this woman out shopping, think to yourself, she has all his life insurance money to do it with, as well as 401k. “
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cryshyaut wrote on Dec 23, 2008 11:45 AM:
” I know Brice personally and he was the the type that would give you the shirt off your back. He could make you smile in an minute and he always followed up with a big bear hug. So before you start judging Brice on 1/2 truths maybe you need to realize that it is just that a half of the story. He was a very good man and an excellent father. Why didn’t Berwick just go inside and lock the door and call the police if he “felt threathened”. Instead he had to take the cowards way out and shoot and kill a wonderful man in cold blood while the children where inside the house!! Our family is grieving and in shock so please before saying refering to Brice as a punk REVLBROWN maybe you should get your facts straight. As far as Mr. Berwick making a good decision NOT it was a shitty one and a shelfish one and I hope he and his granddaughter pays for taking a loving father permantley away from his children. R.I.P Brice “
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mrsboudreaux wrote on Dec 24, 2008 10:18 AM:
” I think it is awesome that Brice was loved by so many. I am the wife of his brother and Brice was very close to my heart, as well. I have been on this sight before and its comforting to hear so many kind words about him. He was a wonderful man and I am blessed to be apart of his family and his life.
I did read one blog that was very negative against his (wife). At first, I felt she truly deserved what was written about her and am very angry his life was taken because he wanted to see the kids, but my mother in law keeps reminding me, We do not repay evil for evil. Brice is in heaven, where he is happy and spreading those wonderful hugs we all remember, they cannot hurt him any longer. He will always be able to watch over his babies and no one has control of that. He can see them anytime he wants. As for her, she is mourning in some way. She knows what she has caused and the depths of her choices. All I ask is that please refrain from negative words because everyone loved Brice. We are all grieving and will be for a long time. Lets please keep this a positive place to come and share our love for Brice. Please pray for our families because they are truly needed. God Bless. “
RG is actually trying to do you a favor. He's trying to keep you out of trouble with an aggressive prosecutor. You might not care what he or I think but if you decide to unload on a threat and shooting long after the threat is over, you will be prosecuted.
You should get on the phone right now at this moment and call your instuctors to review your knowledge of threats. No instuctor will tell you to empty a firearm after the threat is over.
They will explain to you two things.
One. You shoot until the theat is over. Not after.
Two. You shot to stop a threat. You did not shoot to kill.
No law enforcement officer will tell you any different.
It depends on the situation- some mothers are vindictive but some fathers are drug addicts or have other issues where they have no business with the children. I would have to know the rest of this story to feel sorry about the dad not being able to get to see his children- there could be a really good reason.
My ex son-in-law is a meth addict/drug dealer and has only supervised visitation with his son. This state generally awards joint custody in nearly every case- yet my SIL had so many issues the judge didn’t even hesitate to give my daughter sole custody and supervised visitation only to the dad.
At one point in my daughter’s messy divorce the dad threatened to kill her and kidnap his son; trust me when I say if he had actually showed up to do that he would have been the one killed. She was staying with us for that very reason- but SIL knew hubby well enough to stay away from here.
RG does not need to keep me out of trouble. I have never been in trouble. I have LEOs, military, and attorneys in my immediate family, and I am not in the slightest concerned about some internet opinion about a domestic shooting.
Frankly, anyone who takes advise from an anonymous idiot on an internet political opinion site OVER real life instructors, advisors, and trainers is even more stupid.
You are nothing.
Hello? What am I advocating?
Being behind on child support is totally separate from visitation and custody.
You posted you had firearms training. What was the name of the school and it’s location?
We don’t know all the facts of the case here. However, a few thoughts:
1. If the father had the legal right to visitation at that point and the grandfather was denying that, the real problem is if the dad had contacted the cops they would not have done a damned thing. I don’t get why people can get court orders, but the cops won’t assist in enforcing them when asked.
2. If the father was a violent sort and mom was afraid that there would be a problem, she was justified in trying to avoid his contact by going to her parents. The courts sometimes ignore pleas by moms that they are afraid. I know there are plenty of moms who make up a bunch of crap to be vindictive, but there has to be a better way to ensure the safety of the kids.
3. If the father was loud , and physically intimidating grandpa should have demanded he leave. It also is reasonable that he escort him off the property to protect the children (not sure if mom was inside too) We don’t know if dad was planning on retrieving a weapon from his car.
4. Once you feel like your life is in danger, however many bullets it takes to feel safe from the threat it what you shoot.
I have a relative being stalked by her ex, he has drug addictions, no job, pays no support and even has his children telling her to give him money because he is living out of his car. He would rather quit a job than pay anything to her for the sake of his children. She has full custody, but he gets visitation. Unsupervised at that. The oldest child does not want to see him. It’s a bad situation and very scary.
Or maybe the opposite. There isn't enough information in the story to determine who was at fault.
The two incidents you cite are interesting in that in most states, visitation is independent of support.
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