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Obama's first problem is US war crimes. (UK Times, by Andrew Sullivan) (Beyond B^RF ALERT)
UK Times ^ | Nov. 30, 2008 | Andrew Sullivan

Posted on 11/30/2008 1:00:31 AM PST by FocusNexus

The president-elect has to take a stand on Bush's dark legacy.

A small and largely unnoticed spat among the transition planners for the president-elect, Barack Obama, broke out last week. It was the first genuinely passionate debate among the Obamaites and it centres on a terribly difficult and terribly important decision that will be among the first that Obama has to make.

How does he deal with the legacy of criminal actions of his predecessor's administration when it comes to detention, interrogation, abuse and torture of terror suspects? That has long hovered in the back of the minds of those of us who supported Obama, in large part because he alone had the moral authority to draw a line underneath the criminality of the George Bush-Dick Cheney years and restore credibility and honour to America's antiterror policies.

At the end of the second world war, US officials prosecuted Nazi lawyers and civilians who tortured no one themselves but came up with legal flimflam to turn war crimes into legal policy. Why not apply the same logic to Bush's legal architects - the men who declared the president was bound by no law and no treaty in subjecting prisoners to torture up to the very edge of death?

And the evidence we now have, undisputed evidence, proves already that war crimes were indeed committed - by the president and vice-president on down. I mean: why else Guantanamo Bay and secret black sites if the president believed he was obeying domestic American law?

(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 111th; akenyaboy; bds; bho2008; bushlegacy; foreignmedia; hystericalmedia; michellewarthog; obama; obamasupporters; obombathemessiah; sullivan; wot
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I can't believe the UK Telegraph actually published this evil rant.

Andrew Sullivan is still senior editor of The New Republic?! He is just plain insane.

1 posted on 11/30/2008 1:00:31 AM PST by FocusNexus
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To: FocusNexus

Obambi’s first problem was Mumbai .

He already said nothing about it !


2 posted on 11/30/2008 1:02:16 AM PST by Indian_Fighter_Kite
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To: FocusNexus

Related thread:

Bill Kristol: Before He Goes-What President Bush could accomplish in his final days in office
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2140286/posts

Bill calls for a blanket pardon, and so do I!!


3 posted on 11/30/2008 1:03:32 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: Indian_Fighter_Kite
"Obambi’s first problem was Mumbai.
He already said nothing about it!"

Silly, he voted "present", doesn't that count?!!

4 posted on 11/30/2008 1:04:52 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Barack Obama: In Error and arrogant -- he's errogant!)
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To: FocusNexus

If Obama does this it will be at least a year into his ‘rule’ before he ‘reluctantly’ acts.


5 posted on 11/30/2008 1:05:32 AM PST by Sharrukin
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To: FocusNexus
"The president-elect has to take a stand on Bush's dark legacy. "

His stand includes the hiring of Gates!

Sadly, Sullivan was not in the Taj Hotel on Nov 26,2008.

6 posted on 11/30/2008 1:06:29 AM PST by NoLibZone (To All those that have sworn the Oath- Time Has Come. Or your service has been for the benefits.)
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To: FocusNexus
> That has long hovered in the back of the minds of those of us who supported Obama...

"Us"? What's this "us" stuff? Isn't the writer a Pom? He can no more support Obama than I can support McCain.

7 posted on 11/30/2008 1:07:52 AM PST by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: NoLibZone

Andrew Sullivan deserves to be in the firing line of the next terrorist attack anywhere in the world — maybe in his last fleeting instant of life he would discover that his favorite jihadists are happy to go on killing so long as vermin like Sullivan want to enable the jihad.

Propagandist for the worst filth of humanity, that’s all that Sullivan is......


8 posted on 11/30/2008 1:10:50 AM PST by Enchante (Countless Innocents in Mumbai, India Now Face the "Religion of Peace" in Action)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think the fate of the civilized world hangs in the balance because of 0 .

Sigh - India you are alone - now


9 posted on 11/30/2008 1:11:41 AM PST by Indian_Fighter_Kite
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To: Indian_Fighter_Kite

I think he did or actually I think it was an assistant that put out a statement on his behalf. I have a feeling Obama is going to sell out a lot of our Allies.
He wants Russia’s cooperation on Iran so he may look the other way when they threaten the Eastern European countries...Ukraine, Poland, Georgia.
In exchange for the Pakis cooperation on the Afghan border, he might end up giving India the shaft.


10 posted on 11/30/2008 1:12:06 AM PST by SMCC1
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To: SMCC1

It was a statement . And it was horrible .

I think he really does not care .


11 posted on 11/30/2008 1:15:19 AM PST by Indian_Fighter_Kite
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To: FocusNexus

For those like David Brock and Andrew Sullivan, penis trumps principle.


12 posted on 11/30/2008 1:16:12 AM PST by appleharvey
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To: FocusNexus
And the evidence we now have, undisputed evidence, proves already that war crimes were indeed committed ......I mean: why else Guantanamo Bay and secret black sites if the president believed he was obeying domestic American law?

"I mean: why else..." Which is to say, this is unproven, non-evidence, slander, speculation and we have no proof, no genuine evidence, are calling legitimate interrogation (to prevent terrorist attacks) torture and this is another baseless assertion.

Which means this was printed for political purposes to undermine our security. In the light of what just happened in Mumbai, India, it beyond disgusting.

13 posted on 11/30/2008 1:17:05 AM PST by verklaring (Pyrite is not gold))
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To: All

Everyone, please NOTE CORRECTION:

It was the UK Times that published the article, NOT the UK Telegraph — I erroneously misstated the source and blamed the UK Telegraph.

The link is correct, though.

Sorry.


14 posted on 11/30/2008 1:18:38 AM PST by FocusNexus
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To: FocusNexus
Well Andrew, my bet is you are going to be sorely disappointed. Obama had his come to Jesus moment with his first real security briefing. He doesn't want to be the one to put on his resume for all of history that he failed to protect the American people by going PC. That he didn't use all the tools at his disposal to prevent the next “big one”.

I'd guess the Indians have done far worse to the people they've captured with their last “event”. No screaming of war crimes from you...

Here's a little morality quiz for you... Lets say you just captured a person that knows where a nuclear weapon was planted in a large city. That it will go off in 15 minutes. What do you do?

There's a little reality for you. Suck it up, be a man. You don't get second chances.

15 posted on 11/30/2008 1:34:42 AM PST by DB
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To: appleharvey

Yep. And as Coulter, I believe, wrote, it probably ain’t abuse or torture if you can pay to have strangers do it to you in America’s trendier cities.


16 posted on 11/30/2008 2:07:21 AM PST by flowerplough (Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. -O, Jan '08)
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To: DB
Obama had his come to Jesus moment with his first real security briefing. He doesn't want to be the one to put on his resume for all of history that he failed to protect the American people by going PC. That he didn't use all the tools at his disposal to prevent the next “big one”.

You are correct. I am sure Bush and Company are showing the incoming team all the attacks that were foiled as a result of interrogation.

Bush is probably telling him, "...well, you can shut this down or you can answer for a major attack against a US city."

17 posted on 11/30/2008 3:24:04 AM PST by Erik Latranyi (Too many conservatives urge retreat when the war of politics doesn't go their way.)
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To: Indian_Fighter_Kite
He already said nothing about it !

I understand he called on both sides to exercise restraint. Yet, a few months ago he said he would be willing to send troops into Pakistan to fight terrorism.

18 posted on 11/30/2008 3:39:37 AM PST by Fresh Wind (Hey, Obama! Where's my check?)
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To: Fresh Wind

He will never side with India !


19 posted on 11/30/2008 3:42:03 AM PST by Indian_Fighter_Kite
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To: Sharrukin

Of course there was no crime but that matters little to the idiots.


20 posted on 11/30/2008 3:47:07 AM PST by driftdiver (No More Obama! - The corruption has not changed despite all our hopes.)
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