TAKE THE PLEDGE OVER THERE

Townhall.com ^ | 16 November 2008 | Andrew Roman

[andrew roman]

There is a passionate debate going on in the small Vermont town of Woodbury, regarding the Pledge of Allegiance – but it isn't what you may think.

No, this isn’t your garden-variety, everyday, atheistic attempt to remove the “offensive recitation” from school, as we’ve seen on numerous occasions before.

This debate has a new twist.

It isn’t a “what” issue … it’s a “where” issue.

Specifically, it concerns whether or not the Pledge of Allegiance can be said in the classrooms of the school or if it needs to be done in a different place within the school, like the gymnasium.

It is a bitter point of contention there.

No, really.

From the Burlington Free Press:

Supporters say the classroom is the place for it, and the disagreement has fueled an increasingly acrimonious debate.

"The brouhaha in the Vermont school began in September, when parent Ted Tedesco began circulating petitions calling for its return as a daily practice in the 19th-century schoolhouse, which has 55 children in grades kindergarten through six.

School officials agreed to resume the pledge as a daily exercise, but not in the classroom.

"We don't want to isolate children every day in their own classroom, or make them feel they're different," said Principal Michaela Martin.

That last line is purely stunning. I required a three-man work crew to remove my jaw from the floor after reading it.

"We don't want to isolate children every day in their own classroom, or make them feel they're different."

That has to be one of the most patheticly moronic comments I've come across in a mighty long time. The absolutely fractured liberal feel-good logic of "offend no one except the majority" is spectacular to behold when displayed so prominently.

What pure idiocy.

Ms. Martin (if I may speak to her directly), separating a faction of students from others by extracting them from their own classrooms (which is in itself eerily unsettling) to recite the Pledge of Allegiance to their own country is not only frightening, but is, by definition, an act of isolating one group from another. (Please take a "duh" out of petty cash).

Besides, how in the world does reciting the Pledge of Allegiance "isolate" young American children? Doesn't it, in practice, unite them?

My Lord, what planet is this?

I digress ...

Starting last week, a sixth grade student was assigned to go around to the four classrooms before classes started, gathering up anyone who wanted to say it and then walking them up creaky wooden steps to a second-floor gymnasium, where he led them in the pledge.

Martin and School Board Chair Retta Dunlap defended the practice, saying it restored the Pledge to the school as requested, preserved the rights of students who — for political or religious reasons — didn't want to participate and gave others the opportunity to pledge their allegiance.

"I was happy to have it upstairs. I think it's important that all the kids share in it together," said parent Ellen Demers, 42.

My bellybutton is about to cave in. "I was happy to have it upstairs?"

And since when is allegiance to the United States of America a political statement?

"If you're in a classroom with 15 students and you choose not to say the Pledge, it's much more obvious than a group setting. When they're saying it in a group of 55, it's may not be so obvious. We don't want to isolate children," she (Martin) said.

Huh??!??

Let me try this again ... If you are specifically rounding up and separating, children from others, i.e. isolating them, isn't it reasonable to assume that the children in the Pledge-saying group will know who isn't participating and staying behind? Do they not have eyes? Who exactly is being protected from what?

(Tedesco) plans to continue lobbying for classroom recitation.

"There's no way a heckler's veto should abridge the constitutional rights of the majority," he said.

Amen to that.

Talk show host Dennis Prager often recounts a conversation he had with his son immediately after O.J. Simpson was found not guilty of the brutal murders of Nicole Simpson and Ron Brown in 1995. When the verdict came in, and O.J. walked away scot-free, Dennis turned to his son and apologized for not handing off to him a better country than the one his parents gave him.

Sometimes, it is difficult to argue with that.

_

[clintonh8r]

Public schools are about indoctrination, not education.

[Concho]

They are encouraging diversity, not unity.

One country, one flag, one language which is English, encourage Unity.

[JimSEA]

And since when is allegiance to the United States of America a political statement?

What next? It will be branded as "hate speech".

[Mr. Silverback]

Great column, Andrew.

Metmom, I know you already pinged on this subject, but this column just takes the weasels apart.

[originalbuckeye]

Thanks for this. Yesterday I tried to post the original article from the Burlington Free Press but we can't post from that paper. Many in our younger generations are not being taught to respect and love our country. More's the pity. When you aren't invested in your country you don't care about what happens to it. You just think it'll always be the same, always be there for you. These people should be sentenced to a year in a Socialist country. Oh, wait, we may be the Socialist country by next year. We will all be overwhelmingly sorry. Pray for our country.

[teletech]

I bet most adults today couldn’t recite The Pledge of Allegiance from memory.

[Old Sarge]

And since when is allegiance to the United States of America a political statement?
What next? It will be branded as "hate speech".

Not hate speech.

It will be referred to as either a loyalty oath, or a prayer.

THOSE will get it banned.

[sionnsar]

[OneWingedShark]

>It will be referred to as either a loyalty oath, or a prayer.
>
>THOSE will get it banned.

The Loyalty Oath Prayer.
Let’s just combine everything to make it easier. ;)

[freema]

The comments section shows how much the left wants ‘unity’.

That road goes both ways.

[Abby4116]

Jehovah's Witnesses cannot say the pledge of allegiance nor salute the flag. But I do believe that they can be present during same, just standing quietly.

Not sure if there are any other groups like that, but I don't think segregating some students is necessary. We had the pledge of allegiance and saluted the flag every morning in the classroom when I was in school (back in the dark ages) in public schools in Philadelphia.

[GnuHere]

They ought to make the ones who won’t recite it stand in the hall for the whole 20 seconds it would take, then reenter the classroom. That’s a lot less dramatic than marching the Pledge kids to a central location - but I guess that’s not the effect they want...

[DHC-2]

I bet most adults today couldn’t recite The Pledge of Allegiance from memory.

Yeah, I'm having a problem with that lately, I keep saying "stood" instead of "stands."

[teletech]

Yeah, I'm having a problem with that lately, I keep saying "stood" instead of "stands."

You're having trouble with one word. I'm talking about adults that don't know ANY of the words! If you ask them to say the Pledge, you get a blank stare.

[So Cal Rocket]

I'm so glad I'm in a position to be able to send my daughter to private school... each morning her class recites three things:

The Pledge of Allegiance: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, with liberty and justice for all".

A prayer: "Father in Heaven to Thee we pray asking Thy help day by day. In all we say and in all we do make us kind and generous too. Make us eager in our work today, make us joyous in our play. Help us always to follow the rules, Father in Heaven bless our school!"

The Preamble to the Consititution of the United States: "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

[metmom]

Sometimes related threads provide extra insight. No problem pinging it for another perspective.

[metmom]

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[stentorian conservative]

The absolutely fractured liberal feel-good logic of "offend no one except the majority" is spectacular to behold when displayed so prominently.

Very well put. I like your no holds barred style.

The last line bears repeating. . .

Dennis turned to his son and apologized for not handing off to him a better country than the one his parents gave him.

Sometimes, it is difficult to argue with that.

Thank you for writing and posting it.

[cyclotic]

I recite the Pledge of Allegiance at least 7 times a month, followd by the Scout Law and Oath or the Cub Scout Promise. There is usually a prayer tossed in there too.

And horror of horrors, last week, I took part in a flag burning. Two of them in fact.

As I looked over at one of my fellow scout leaders, a soldier in service to our Nation, I noticed tears in his eyes as the flag was retired.

People have fought and died under the cover of our Red, White and Blue colors.

That, people of Vermont, is why we pledge allegiance to the flag of our nation. The absolute least you could do is take two minutes of precious indoctrination (I mean class) time and at least pretend you love America.

[teletech]

That, people of Vermont, is why we pledge allegiance to the flag of our nation. The absolute least you could do is take two minutes of precious indoctrination (I mean class) time and at least pretend you love America.

My post said there are adults who cannot recite the Pledge. I AM NOT one of those adults! I love this country and I have served her in the Army so BACK OFF!

[cyclotic]

What in the world are you talking about? I never accused anyone except the idiots in that school and those that support them of anything.

My comments were directed completely at them. I apologize if I wrote it wrong or you took it wrong cause that’s not what was meant.

[teletech]

What in the world are you talking about? I never accused anyone except the idiots in that school and those that support them of anything.

My comments were directed completely at them. I apologize if I wrote it wrong or you took it wrong cause that’s not what was meant.

Let me then apologize to you. I'm sorry.

[cyclotic]

Cool,

I guess we’re friends again. :)

Have a great day.

[A Woodbury Parent]

I am a parent of a child at Woodbury. The AP article that came out last Friday is biased and intentionally omitted many facts solely to make it sound like the pledge has been banned from our classrooms. Nothing could be further from the truth! Here's what is really happening in Woodbury, Vermont: For the last ten years the pledge was said once a week, during the weekly school-wide assembly (wednesday mornings). Late last year the pledge stopped being said - and not intentionally! No one can say exactly when or how, but it did stop being said, toward the end of the year (about one month, tops. This year, a parent wrote a letter to the Principal asking for the pledge to be said again. Without following established procedure, and only one week after that letter, that same parent started a petition which requested that the pledge be said every day. This parent told me that he did not get a satisfactory response from the principal in time and that's why he started the petition. His petition said NOTHING about where or how the pledge would be said, only that it be daily. Our town has over 600 registered voters and a total population of over 800. He did receive 310 signatures, he stood outside the school and he went door to door. (BTW, our town voted for Obama by over 60%) Last month the school staff acted on the petition and they decided to have the students say the pledge together as a group. Their original decision was to have a 6th grader go to each of our four classrooms and ask those that wanted to recite the pledge to all go to the large common room, one floor up. A large majority of the students participated. Last week the school staff changed that to having the school kids gather together right outside their classrooms. Our school has only four classrooms, all on the same floor. The students all gather together as a group and the six grader selected for that day makes the school announcements and then leads their fellow students in saying the pledge. Then students then return to their rooms. Many parents I talked to that DID sign the petition are satisfied with the school gathering together as a community and giving the older students the position of leadership for this historic oath. Fox News has been running a report on our school all day Monday (Nov. 17). Their report claims that the students are banned from saying the pledge in the classrooms. THAT IS A LIE. There is NO policy banning them from the classrooms. If a student really wants to NOT join their fellow students but remain in the classroom to say the pledge, they would not be stopped. Out of 50-something students, grades K through 6, I counted only 7 students that were not joining in saying the pledge. Many of those were Jehovah's Witnesses and therefore had religious reasons for not doing so, and I respect them for that. I told MY daughter that is was HER choice to say the pledge, after I made sure she understood ALL aspects of what it truly means, the good and the bad. She decided to say the pledge Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. On Monday and Thursday she is preparing herself for being the class helper, which is a good thig for her to be doing. Our school has NOT been 'taken over by America hating Communists'. The parent that started the petition has succeeded in fulfilling the exact text of the petition, to the satisfaction of many of the signers, yet he refuses to accept the decision of the Principal (which is all about his own agenda to force the principal out, as he said to me one night after we attended a school board meeting). Worst of all the parent that started the petition brought an angry mob of mostly NON-Parents to the school last Friday to scare the school staff into doing it his way. The staff and students told me they were terrified of him and his unruly mob, as they stood right outside the front door and berated the School Board chair woman - who is a Christian home-schooler!!! He did NOT follow the established procedures, by going right to a petition, and now he's resorted to mob intimidation to force his agenda. That is the true story here. He is using the Rule of the Jungle to supplant the Rule of Law, and THAT is Un-American! Our town is a healthy mix of left and right, as America is meant to be. We still have our annual Town Meeting to discuss all the matters before the town. We still agree to disagree with each other and yet remain friends and respect each other here. It is the author of the petition that is damaging all of that. You have all been tricked by a biased AP reporter and lied to by Fox News, your hated and anger at our tiny school is wrong and unjustified by facts. Please, in the future, withhold your bile until you know more about the issues.

[Capagrl]

I grew up in Southern California in an area seemingly full of Jehovah’s Witnesses with several in my classroom throughout elementary school. Those kids simply sat at their desks while everyone else stood to say the pledge. I recall asking one of the girls why she didn’t stand and she said it was against her religion to say the pledge. I said, “Oh, interesting. Let’s go play!” and that was it. I didn’t find it too weird or unacceptable.

However, I also remember in 5th grade when the day came that the boys were taken outside for a game of kickball and the girls had to stay inside for a “talk” from the school nurse (with samples that we then had to try and hide from the boys). The boys were BURNING UP with curiosity when they came back inside about why we couldn’t go with them to play, what had happened that they’d missed out on, etc. - separating the groups had a HUGE effect on everyone. The girls were mortified and the boys were intrigued. I imagine separating out the pledge-sayers from non-pledge-sayers in such a fashion has a similar effect on the kids; the creation of absolute division. And I also imagine there are several kids who are NOT stepping out to say the pledge b/c they feel pressured into not going or vice versa.