California Proposition 11 -- Redistricting

Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association | October 16, 2008 | Jon Coupal

[Czar]

Jarvis Taxpayers Association Endorses Proposition 11

The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association has announced the endorsement of Proposition 11 to stop the conflict of interest of lawmakers drawing their own districts and choosing the voters they want to help ensure their reelection.

"The current system fixes elections so that fewer than five percent of state representatives face a challenge to their reelection," said HJTA president Jon Coupal. "This has resulted in a climate where lawmakers do not have to be accountable to voters for effectively addressing problems like on-going budget deficits and out-of-control spending."

Proposition 11 will take the power to draw districts out of the hands of the politicians and put it into the hands of a citizens commission.

"Prop. 11 creates firm guidelines and a transparent system for drawing fair districts," commented Coupal. "We need to change districts so that candidates have to compete for our votes. This is the only way to make our votes meaningful."

[Czar]

I am rather surprised that HJTA has decided to endorse Proposition 11. Apparently, they feel the situation has become so desperate it is worth taking a chance despite a number of open questions and the suspicion this will simply be co-opted by the political hacks who pose as the Legislature in Sacramento.

[Czar]

Any comments?

[mhx]

I was leaning toward voting for it, but was a little uneasy that we might just be swapping out one dysfunctional mechanism for another. This is interesting.

[goldstategop]

Competitive elections would be wonderful. The approach works well in Canada. It would be great to have gerrymandering abolished in California. When the majority party draws the boundaries itself, you're not going to have competitive elections.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Sergio]

This will be a good or bad thing depending upon who gets to do the redistricting.

[goldstategop]

Prop 11 sets up a 60 member redistricting commission composed of 20 Democrats 20 Republicans and 20 Independents. To pass a redistricting plan requires 3 Democrats 3 Republicans and 3 Independents to vote in the affirmative. If for any reason, the commission cannot agree on a plan - a special master appointed by the California Supreme Court will draw up a redistricting plan. So instead of having the majority party draw the boundaries to entrench its power, those lines would be drawn by a non partisan body that cannot give consideration to how the boundaries would affect incumbents, political parties or political candidates. Public hearings would ensure the plan is fair and represents all Californians, not just the political elite. It flows from a simple premise: politicians should not be allowed to pick and choose their own voters.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[NormsRevenge]

anything beats what we have.. I reckun..

how could they possibly screw it up any worse?

I’m leaning Yes on 4, 8 (maybe 9 too), 11 and 12

NO to High-speed rail for sure.

I am not Joe the Plumber but I endorse this post. :-]

[kabar]

That works two ways. With the rapidly changing demographics in CA, it would probably result in less seats for the Reps.

[newzjunkey]

This is puzzling.

There are many Leftist interests from ACLU and NAACP chapters to Democrats like Grey Davis, Leon Panetta and Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates in support of this Prop.

On the other hand besides Arnold and some scattered GOP groups we now have the HJTA, the CA Republican Assembly and Roger Hedgecock for Prop 11.

I'm concerned about potential for mischief in the selection of "qualified" citizens for this board. There's also no guarantee Democrats won't increase their near super-majorities or that any of the districts will become more competitive.

[Truthsearcher]

Gerrymandering is nothing more than an under the table attempt to rob people the value of their vote. I can’t believe that people put up with it to begin with.

[goldstategop]

If you read the NO side - no surprise - the opponents are leftist Democrat constituency groups like labor, latinos and blacks and of course the state Democratic Party establishment. They don't want competitive elections. Why would they, if you were a Democrat? It all makes sense now.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

Due to lack of agreement on an alternative redistricting procedure. People see only winners and losers rather than voters.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

There are no guarantees in life - and that's the way it should be in a free society.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[SierraWasp]

Yes. I think Jon Coupal ought to know better! He endorsed Arnold Schwartznegger early in the Recall and regretted it when the baloney borrowing started and the huge land control grab in the Sierra-Nevada happened almost immediately.

My comment is: I believe Howard Jarvis would rise from the danged grave to strangle Jon if he had anyway of doing so and could be aware of what Jon's doing in Howard's great name!!!

Again, like the federal bailout, the idea that you must hurry up and endorse something, or do something, even if it's flawed is foolhardy, dubious and dangerous!!!

[goldstategop]

And you think the Democrats are going to keep Republicans anywhere but in the minority after 2010? That's life, son.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[tubebender]

20 R + 20 D + 20 I = 40 dimwits. The only 20 Independents in Kollyfawnia are members of the Fourth Estate aka The Lame Stream Press

[ElkGroveDan]

a number of open questions and the suspicion this will simply be co-opted by the political hacks who pose as the Legislature

They already control the redistricting process 100%, with no restrictions whatsoever. Why would they support this?

It's not perfect, but it's way, way better than what we have now and there is zero, zilch, nada of a chance of anything else coming along to fix it any time soon. I'm voting for it.

[goldstategop]

The enemy of the good is the insistence on the perfect. No such thing will ever come along. Ask yourself why the Democrat Party and the organized Left is against Prop. 11. It certainly isn't out of an affection for good government or that they respect the will of the people. They disregard California's welfare and when it comes to the people, they do whatever the hell they want. I'm normally against changing the status quo but it seems to me here change is the lesser of two evils.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[John Jorsett]

I’ve been suspicious of this initiative since I saw that the AARP is endorsing it. They’ve endorsed some pretty lefty measures in the past, so I’m wondering if they know something I don’t.

[SierraWasp]

"That's life, son."

You might pursuade some on here but you'll never convince me of anything by trying to make me your danged "son!" Just fergedaboudit!!!

[SierraWasp]

"The enemy of the good is the insistence on the perfect."

And the enemy of good sense is to buy into something that is screwed up because you just can't wait to get it done right a little later, so you go tearing off to do something, even if it's easily screwed with by your adversaries who are trying desperately to rush you into doing it because they already know how to game it to death!!!

That's just borrowing more trouble for your future.

[ElkGroveDan]

You are missing my point Wasp. They already 100% power to thoroughly rig the system however they want.

[SierraWasp]

I'm well aware of that as I presumed we both were aware of it. My point is, don't bite on this half measure that can still be gamed and saturated with ringers at a couple of levels... Make 'em keep trying till they get it right unless you want to take over the initiative process and do it for 'em on this issue.

I'm still sore over the fact that almost 50 years ago Earl Warren and the dumbass Supremes decided that "Cows Don't Vote" and jury-rigged half the State Legislature to look just like the other half, thereby making BOTH halves subject to gerrymandering!!!

You couldn't gerrymander the old original set up for the State Senate with one State Senator appointed by each County Board of Supervisors!!!

Now us rural property owners are stuck with taxation with lousy representation, while the city slickers out vote us at every turn and routinely remove our property rights!!!

Tell me why it wasn't equally as important to have one house based on "One Man, One Vote" demography and the other based on geography with "One County, One Vote?" It has at least a partial bearing on this subject of Prop 11...

[calcowgirl]

I'm leaning NO. I see it as a way for Arnie and his clan to snuff out conservatives. I don't know of a single district where a conservative lost because of the way the district line was drawn.

As to Coupal, I gave up on him a few years ago when he hooked up with Arnold and actually backed one of his big borrowing schemes. HJTA got bought, IMO--although they still occasionally take the right position on issues.

I also don't like the long list of lefties supporting this measure. And I generally don't like taking responsibilities and handing them off to some specially selected panel that can't be directly removed (as our elected ones conceivably can be).

[calcowgirl]

Ask yourself why the Democrat Party and the organized Left is against Prop. 11.

Huh? There is a long list of lefties supporting this measure.

[Amerigomag]

Any comments?

Yes.

I can't recommend Prop 11. Prop 11 is a manipulated, convoluted arrangement designed to favor the status quo.

Non-partisan redistricting is a simple process that can be developed by a junior, computer science major at Cal Poly. All the necessary data is already available and a coordinate geometry solution is almost elementary.

The most difficult aspect of the process is to seek the cooperation of the legislature, especially with regard to exemption of statewide office from local, geopolitical, boundary restrictions, specifically municipal boundaries.

Modern machine computing easily allows ballots taylored to indiviual registrants. Any limitations are driven by considerations for political gain. We have the ability to allow individual voters, residing juxtaposition, to participate appropriately in contests in different municipal, county and special district boundaries.