Posted on 10/11/2008 5:37:24 AM PDT by reaganaut1
[I]t's not just residents of the Last Frontier who favor breaking away from the Union. According to a Zogby poll conducted in July, more than 20% of U.S. adults -- one in five, about the same number of American Colonists who supported revolt against England in 1775 -- agreed that "any state or region has the right to peaceably secede from the United States and become an independent republic." Some 18% "would support a secessionist effort in my state."
The motivation of these quiet revolutionaries? As many as 44% of those polled agreed that "the United States' system is broken and cannot be fixed by traditional two-party politics and elections."
Put this in stark terms: In a scientific, random sample poll of all Americans, almost half considered the current political system to be in terminal disorder. One-fifth would countenance a dissolution of the bond. This is not a hiccup of opinion. In an October 2006 poll conducted by the Opinion Research Corp. and broadcast on CNN, 71% of Americans agreed that "our system of government is broken and cannot be fixed."
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
Personally I wouldn’t mind if certain states calved off, except they’d soon be demanding foreign aid from the US.
And getting it.
At this point... I favor it.
Lets divorce ourselves from the rotting flesh that is the liberal collectivists. We cannot coexist. Its better for everyone if we all just went our own separate way.
I guess I’m one of the 20% who think the political system is broken and can’t be fixed.
I don't think it would be the welfare states that dropped off. It would be the heartland, the frontier, and the rest of "Flyover Country". Would that be a bad thing? I'd be tempted to move to Flyover Country, if they wrote a constitution that said what ours used to say, except with the "ambiguities" clarified. As for a second civil war with the remaining states trying to stop them, I don't see that happening. The red states could exercise their constitutional right to seceed, do it peacefully, and no one in New England and the Left Coast would have the expertise or even the power to stop them.
I was watching a Family Guy episode and they are pretty left leaning as you guys know. However every now and then they’ll throw a little logic in their jokes and sarcasm.
So they flashed back to the founding fathers writing the constitution and said “Do you think they’ll understand the “right to bear arms”? and the other one said “Sure, they’ll know everyone has the right to have bear arms on their wall!” and pointed to stuff and mounted bear arms on the wall. (pretty funny)
And the guy said “Ok, well we’ll just take out this part about the right to an abortion”, and the joke of that is that of course abortion wasn’t a right in the intent of the constitution. It wasn’t even a possibility at that time.
And military protection and everything else that benefits them and yet wouldn’t contribute to anything American.
If they would take a poll south of the MasonDixon line and east of the Mississippi, they would get results more like 75% favor secession.
I’d certainly support giving California to Mexico. At the same time, if a conservative state were to break away, I would move there and join it.
You are right about that, and I would be part of that 75%. If it happens again, lets allow the Union to keep Northern Virginia.
Better would be a people exchange with, say, our Canadian neighbors: they take our pushy New England 'Rat-voting Yankees, and we get their more-conservative High Plains wheat-belt farmers and miners in return. (And all the Molson's, eh.)
Alternatively, if we did have to give up territory, I'd just split it at the Hudson (keeping Bedloe's Island, and letting them have Riker's) as high as the Croton Reservoir, and then follow the Connecticut/New York state line up to Lake Champlain. Canada gets everything to the east, we get BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, the Yukon, and most of Nunavut in return. And an option on Manitoba if they want to throw in.
But they get to keep the Archipelago, the western shore of Hudson's Bay, and all the continental shelf.
And they get six and a half states (they get Long Island and most of metro New York City except Staten Island), MIT, most of the Ivies and Seven Sisters, plus we'll physically move Princeton and Cornell to new quarters in Canada -- and the entire population of Ithaca, New York, City of Evil.
And the population of DC.
Sounds fair to me -- they get 30,000,000 'Rat-voting Yankees, we get about 6,000,000 Canadian Westerners in return. And Vancouver, and the Athabaska Tar Sands.
Sound fair to you?
They could go back and look at the elections. Any state that consistently goes blue goes one way and calls themselves the United Socialist States of America. The red states goes another and call themselves the United States of America. Any state that has been inconsistent, can chose which way they want to go. We would have many more states in our camp. They would have mostly the coastal states. We would have Alaska. Big plus because thats where all the fuel is. We would also have shipping lanes in Texas and off the southeast Atlantic states. We would have Kentucky and thats where the money is; Fort Knox.
And what would the number be for those WEST of the Mississippi to say . . .the Rockies? Methinks it would be more than 75%.
Good idea. We would have Louisiana now too since the election of Bobby Jindhal. Maybe we could even get Ray Nagin to come around. LOL
Change and Hope!
Hope and Change!
Correct, except that it has to be the act of an entire State, i.e. its People (not its legislature). They have to go out by an act of the People themselves.
The United States is a federal republic, not the Nazi Empire.
Let's add the proviso,..and not to foreign nations or interests. (Clinton thinks the same thing but wants to sell to the Chinese or revolutionary Mexicans.)
I am not for seccesion. What I am for is cleaning the parts of the country that are rotten. Why should good hard working Americans in “blue” areas be abandoned?
The American historic model is secession but there is another course.
That course is purging. The red states should just kick selected blue states out of the union, that is, purge the union of the socialists.
Very fair. Yes we would definitely have to figure out a way to get our conservative friends out of the United Socialist States of Amerika. We could elect Governer Palin to be our president and I think Bobby Jindahl would make a great VP. Or vice versa. Either one would be a good president. Let the USSA have Obama/Biden.
Hold on now... The industrial power of New England, with its armories, textile mills, and factories were the heart of the Union victory in the Civil War.
Oh, wait a second. They are all either museums, condos or empty.
You guys run along and have a good time.
Absolutely! We could band the southwest and southeast together and have one helluva country! The problem would be how to bring in New Mexico. I guess we could bring in a few liberals just so we never got complacent.
Referring to the photo, I can’t say that I speak for my fellow Texans, but you ain’t giving us to Mexico, nossir. I believe we can hold our own in this state, matter of fact Dr. Walter Williams has already advanced this idea but he paired us off with Louisiana for some reason.
I’ll just take Texas, myself.
Thats the best idea. We need the Dakotas and Montana and Idaho. They are all red but very north. We could trade our liberals in say Atlanta for the Conservatives in California. Set them up in a new wonderful life in a place that appreciated them.
Sorry, but states rights died outside a small whistle stop town in Pennsylvania, It took three days to finish the job.
I guess you’re right but it is fun to dream.
Key West (Florida) seceded from the Union and has not ‘officially’ been repatriated.
http://www.conchrepublic.com/visit.htm
In the American civil war the South fared poorly because of its low industrialization. It never was a “poor” region till the enlightened New Englanders literally looted the region of any value it had for the next 30 years.
In a new shake-up there would be a lot of value fleeing the “Yankee” states as a “mailing address” isn’t very good if there’s not a lot of incentive to do business there. There is a lot of industrialization and agricultural ability (and fuel) to make the Red states pretty well off.
Um . . .you unfortunately left out a whole helluva lot of states, including mine. Don’t forget the good ol’ flyover states west of the Mississippi. MO, NB, ND, SD, MT, ID, WY, OK etc.
ewps! NB should be NE.
The South Was Right!
by James Ronald Kennedy; Walter Donald Kennedy
The South was out numbered 2-1 in the war. The North had 71% of the US population with 2,200,000 soldiers. The South had 29% of the population with 1,064,000 soldiers.
This govt. kisses the backside of Any big business.
Where does the govt. get power to make you wear seat belts? They got pressure from the insurance industry.
The govt. has no constitutional authority to force this kind of crap on us.
Just pay ever more of your earned money to taxes and STFU.
Just one of hundreds of issues this govt. has taken and shoved up our backsides.
Abortion, Education, busing free sepeech etc etc etc.
“secession”? Fine, let red flyover become its own conservative country and let the blue states keep murdering their babies.
See my post #26
Also the north was importing troops from Irish prisons. They were told if they survived the war they were free and automatic US citizens. When the south lost a man he wasn’t replaced. When the north lost a man he was replaced. They had the food. They blocked food from coming into the south. They starved women and kids. They looted and burned their homes. They stole what little food they had to feed their children.
I'm not sure what the "angry voters at McCain rally" topic portends, but I've never seen so many people so riled up over an election. I've considered CWII pings for a few of them, but didn't. This one, on secession, merits a ping for sure, so here it is.
There are few around the edges we can just shove over the side. Heck, we can even give them to Canada.
I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
It was meant as sarcasm. Sorry I didn’t tag it. The north has lost almost all of the industrial power it had just 50 years ago. We could not repel a horde of ducks.
This may be the only remaining lapel-pin from the early 80’s Alaska movement.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/hockea/scan0002.jpg
New Hampshire
Wyoming
Alaska.
Texas.
Montana.
Baja California, California, Oregon, Washington, B.C., Alaska, Idaho. (Warning: leftist site!)
Vermont. Leftist!
Secession in the News
The Sovereign Secession Solution
Article from the Idaho Observer, 2003
Secession in Fiction
Boston T. Pary's novel of a breakaway Wyoming
The one that started it all.
A two book series on Montana breaking away.
And last, but certianly NOT least, our very own Freeper "Travis McGee's" series (two delivered, one in the works) dystopia concerning the break-up of the USA, including several sovereign states and Aztlan in the South West.
.jpg )
And speaking of Aztlan:
And Finally, a critical topic to us all these days, Money:
We are at the Triage stage. Not everyone can be saved from the coming Socialist nightmare, but some can. Realistically many of the blue states are far-left by choice, with overwhelming majorities. What method can you possibly use to "clean them up". In fact, they are cleaning YOU up, with laws like Motor Voter, that enable stuff like ACORN, that is supported by elite eastern judges and groups like the ACLU.
Not to mention California, many parts of which are now majority non-English speaking recently arrived and mostly illegal Mexicans. Do you really think we can save L.A. from itself? Why should we?
Secession is the ONLY hope that some of us have to live in a traditional, non-socialist, freedom and liberty loving place in our lifetiems.
If this election has not convinced you then I guess nothing will. Now that the MSM have figure out that they can stampeed the fools in the middle do you think they will voluntarily restrain themselvs in future elections. This train only goes one way, and it ain't in the RIGHT direction.
I'm not even sure that the party stands where Vogler did on separation. If it doesn't, that's a testimony to astute politicians like Palin who won disaffected Alaskans over.
Secession isn't really an answer. If we stop being the United States we lose a lot of clout in the world. Some people who want to say goodbye to the "empire" haven't really thought out what that would mean in practical terms. It would certainly ease the way for China's ascent in the world.
The idea that some parts of the country would follow Canada's or Europe's model, while others would defiantly go their own way is unrealistic. Let Texas secede now, and in ten years they'll be trying to secede Houston, Austin, and Dallas, from the rest of the state.
Clearly local control is a good thing. People on different sides of major political divides aren't going to be able to convince each other, so they're better off making local decisions locally. But if you stop making your argument to people who don't agree, then you really begin to lose ground in the world, and amputation isn't going to help.
Yes, but the ever growing beast in Washgington requires we all do as they say. Very little is left to states. All the relly big money sucking programs are Federal ones. So it doesn't really matter if most popel in Everytown, SomeState, USA don't want to participate in a bogus federal insurance system (SSI), or medical insurance system (Medicare), or give free stuff to people in their community (Medicaid, Sectoin 8 housing, FoodSamps, etc.) because the FedGov insists that ONE SIZE FITS ALL.
... . But if you stop making your argument to people who don't agree,
Conservatives have been "making the argument" since before WW2. We haven't won much. A few big states control a lot of things.
then you really begin to lose ground in the world, and amputation isn't going to help.
Forget about losing ground in the world, what about losing ground in your home town? Staying all together while quicly transitioning from semi-socialist to fully socialist - with special rights for gays, blacks and Latinos - is where we are headed.
A lot more people need to start waking up and smelling the coffee. Amputation is *STILL* the only viable treatment for some injuries and illnesses!! Ask any doctor, a limb far gone to gangrene, infection or badly mangaled MUST be cut off. Failure to do so will mean the DEATH of the patient.
Look at our financial system for heaven's sake. It is the classic BLUE STATE PROGRAM. It enriches super elites and provides freebies for beloved minorities while screwing eveyrone in the middle. It is gamed so that a huge percent of profits in the entire country go to the banking sector, which is very very concentrated in Blue States (and one or two of those to boot). It requires a constant debasement of the currency by which method those practicing traditional virtures of modest living, frugality and saving for a rainy day are made fools.
TIME TO AMPUTATE !!
You don't?
Found in a blue tarp 'coffin' in a gravel pit outside of Fairbanks - bullet to the back of his head.
All very mysterious..... He was buried in Canada so as not to have the flag of the USA flying over his grave...
A few years back 10 counties in KS and CO tried to secede and form a new state. Farmers were tired of paying taxes to support "welfare maggots" in Denver and Kansas City. SO odd that....
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