Posted on 10/10/2008 7:06:08 AM PDT by KeyLargo
'I didn't want to shoot anybody'
A CREST HILL MAN WAS PREPARED FOR 35 YEARS FOR A DAY HE HOPED WOULD NEVER COME.
October 10, 2008 From Staff Reports
CREST HILL -- The same six bullets sat in the cylinder of the man's .38 special for 35 years until he fired four of them at someone who crashed through his bedroom window Wednesday.
"I often wondered if I could pick it up and pull the trigger," the shaken and emotional man said Thursday morning, hours after he gunned down an intruder in his basement apartment.
The apparent housebreaker, 34-year-old Demetrious Groves, a downstate man who moved a block away from the apartment about three months ago, was taken to Provena Saint Joseph Medical Center. He died about an hour after he arrived.
The apartment's resident, a 68-year-old man, said he was watching the news on television when he got up and went into his bedroom about 6 p.m.
Because the man has not been charged with any crime, The Herald News is not identifying him.
"When I got to the door, I heard a loud thump at my window," said the retired electronic technician who served aboard an aircraft carrier during the Vietnam War.
"I took a few steps to my window, and this big black guy threw himself through my window," he said.
The intruder hit the floor, he said, rolled and popped up. The resident grabbed the .38 from his night table and squeezed off four shots.
"I think the last shot, I must have hit him pretty good and he fell down," he said. "He was talking to me. He said, 'A black guy was chasing me so I went through your window.' I said, 'Why did you go through my window? Why didn't you go around the building?'"
Police Chief Dwayne Wilkerson said detectives were "still investigating all facets of the case." If Groves was being chased, his pursuers have not been identified.
The resident called the police. When they arrived, he was ordered to the ground, handcuffed and taken to the police station. A detective interviewed him before he returned home.
"Before I left, they told me he had died," he said of Groves.
Investigation continues Charles B. Pelkie, the spokesman for State's Attorney James Glasgow, said the incident remains under investigation and noted that the resident was cooperating with the police.
The man said he did not know where the bullets hit Groves. Deputy Coroner Bob Brenczewski said his office would not release that information. Coroner Patrick O'Neil said only that Groves suffered "multiple gunshot wounds."
The man said he bought the never-before-fired gun for protection decades ago.
"I live here by myself in a garden apartment, and the neighborhood down the street's getting kind of rough," he explained.
He called his reaction to the man coming through his window "instinct."
"I don't know what else to call it, just instinct," he said. "I've had the gun sitting on my night stand for years, loaded. I didn't want to shoot anybody. I was hoping I'd never have to use it."
The morning after Groves' death, he said he was visited by a man who asked, "Did you shoot my brother?"
"He was nice," the resident said. "He wasn't agitated or mad or anything. He said he wanted to see where he was shot."
He said he brought the man into his bedroom, which was splattered with Groves' blood.
"I told him I was sorry," he said. "He just shook my hand or hugged me, or whatever. He cried a little bit, and he left."
It would suck if the guy was being chased. I guess he picked the wrong window to crash through. Hope the home owner isn’t charged but it is Illinois.
I’m sorry to disagree, but if one is being chased, that is no excuse for breaking into someone’s house.
That is just plain stupid. Like jumping out of the frying pan, into the fire.
The end DOES NOT justify the means.
How racist!..................../s
It would help to ease the pain if the intruder’s rap sheet was brought out...
Well, it kind of sucks to be in your bedroom and have someone crash through your window. I believe any reasonable person would have to react as if they were under attack.
I mean, who can blame him! How could anyone know, his reaction would be my exact same reaction. I would’ve shot, too!
Kind of cool though, that the guy’s brother came and made peace with it all. Sad, but good.
This guy didn't think he was going to die and was already getting his defense ready.
That is the biggest fear that any smart gun owner should face. Good for him that he acted in self-defense, but I don’t envy his nightmares.
He's lucky they fired properly.
That was my reaction also.
Naaaa.
Modern ammo should last forever in a “home” environment.
Excessive heat, moisture, etc. are the bane of ammo. My “carry” ammo has the primer and bullet crimp sealed with clear nail polish. I expect that ammo to fire 100 years from now.
Why? I am not surprised, and trust me I have experience in this department. 35 year old ammo in a bedroom, no problem for ammo. You are talking 1973 ammo. I’ve shot 1918 ammo without a hitch. Blast WW2 surplus a lot (corrosive but good). Helps where’s it’s stored. Dry, no serious temperature fluctuations (freezing/hot,etc).
“So, if this isn’t yours, why was it in your pants pocket?”
“These are not my pants and i didn’t know it was in there.”
No, not kidding....
Isn’t that part about the dead man’s brother coming to visit kind of weird?
Treating the victim like the bad guy, as usual for blue states.
I agree with you. That is why I said I hope the owner isn’t charged. Flinching or hesitating can cost you your life.
Do you have any of the specs on what is corrosive or not? I have a bunch of .30 carbine in the original fast load clips, I think it’s Korean war vintage.
Thanks for that. Good to know. Not exactly the opportune moment to test it, though.
The dead guy could also have moved there to look for new victims.
Good shooting.
I’ve shot up plenty of ammo much older. Very few misfires, even with the old paperhulled shotgun shells.
Obviously a nice Greek boy.
one look at the dead guys rap sheet would quickly dispel any thoughts that he was a victim, IMHO.
Aren't there plenty of prisons downstate?
I have ammo that is that old or older, and it fires just fine. Inside the house, not in a wet or damp area, etc.
Ammo made years ago is better than today’s, IMO.
No report as to whether the “crasher” was packing? Gun or knife? How about a follow-up on the perp’s rap sheet contents?
>even with the old paperhulled shotgun shells.<
Are you insinuating that I’m old because I have bought and shot those “old paperhulled shotgun shells”? LOL
A few years ago the young woman who lives across the street from me came home later than she was supposed too so her friends dropped her off at the corner so she could sneak into her house. I guess someone saw her getting out of the car and decided to follow and grab her.
Her screaming woke me up but by the time I got outside I saw her heading to her neighbors house the perp was back in his car. There was a large bang on her neighbors door and then a crash as she went threw a window .
No one was upset at her for that ... off course she had been screaming bloody murder and her skirt had been torn off
a totally different scenario than the one in this thread but there is no way that I would have told her she shouldn’t have broken into the house
Old? A classic perhaps!
This was stuff from the 30’s to work in a short chambered 16 ga. until I got my press set up to roll them the correct size.
I still pick up paper hulls. Next to Hoppes 9, it’s the best smell in shooting.
You can search the net for specifics, but most DOD ammo used corrosive primers/powders into the sixties.
Again, this is not a problem if you clean your weapons after a firing session - the “corrosive” nature of the components is not a problem to the ammo itself if storage conditions are adequate.
Most military ammo was built to withstand temperature and moisture storage extremes that commercial ammo just can’t tolerate. I have fired thousands of WWII rounds without the slightest problem.
I used to have a brand new box of Remington 410’s that were from the late 30’s. Somehow the box got stuck in the bottom of my Dad’s old heavy canvas backpack for 30 years. When I found them again I flipped out. I wrapped the box with paper and stuck it in a Crown Royal pouch for another 25 years. I finally sold it to a collector for a very tidy sum.
I’ll bet, ammo with the box (especially in good condition) brings a good price.
It was in near perfect condition because the backpack stayed in the very bottom of the trunk unmoved for many years. The offer was just too good for me to pass up. I hope it brought back many memories for the man.
On the upside, I have very little powder residue behind the ear...
Ok what would you do if you were in my older brother’s situation. You have absolutely no idea because you are sitting on the computer typing while he was running for his life. I think when you are afraid and in fear of dying you would do almost anything you could. If he were doing anything other than trying to find safety why would he jump through someone’s window at 6 in the evening. Your comment makes no sense. You are obviously a cold heartless indiviual.
He killed some one how would have liked for him to have been treated. What if it were your brother.....think before you speak. That man was not a victim he is still breathing. The victims are my brother (who if he was doing anything it was running to find safety) and his two children, his mother, father, sisters, and brother. God Bless you. I pray you never experience what my family is going through.
He had lived in the area for over a year. He was employed not a thug, a father, son, brother, uncle and friend,. So because he lived near a rough area that means he should have killed my brother. The dead guy Mr. Demetrious Groves Sr. has never robbed anyone in his life, he has never assaulted anyone in his life, he is my brother. He moved there to be with my other brother, to work, and to be a productive member of society. What would you do if you were put in his situation. Would run to someones home, or just stand there. I am his sister. What would you do?
Of course he won’t be charged he is a “white guy’ like he said he saw a “big black guy” isn’t that always the defense. He was 5’7” damn I guess that’s huge. Sincerely TaNiqu Groves.
Thank you. from the family of Demetrious Groves Sr.
Many thanks! It says all .30 carbine is the good stuff!
All too often bad things happen to good folks in very difficult circumstances. Condolences and sympathy to you and your family; the loss of a good man diminishes us all.
I probably would have responded to a violent assault on my home in similar fashion, as would most reasonable people. Being able to know exactly what was happening (and the true motives of the participants) in that instant falls into the realm of the Almighty; us mere mortals must make life or death decisions w/o benefit of hindsight.
The homeowner who killed your brother is indeed as much a victim as your brother. The perpetrators, based on the information provided so far, are guilty of murder. Hopefully the Police investigation will find the truth, identities and follow with full prosecution.
God Bless.
Ms. Groves;
I would have legally defended myself with a legally carried firearm (assuming I was being threatened with deadly force); since I do not live in a state where free men are debarred the use of arms.
If I lived in Illinois, I would have long ago moved, just as I did from my home state of NY.
Again, condolences.
God Bless & MOLON LABE
I would like for someone defending themself in their own home to not be treated as a violent instigator. The shooter didn’t ask Demetrious to come crashing through his window. How would you react if a man half your age and twice your strength broke into your home without warning.. and police came to arrest you at gunpoint for having been assaulted like that?
I am very sorry for your family’s loss. God bless you and yours too.
Do you have any idea how many people we get on FR who log in to only post to defend someone, usually dead by their own actions that we get here?
No you don’t because you are another one of them. Maybe someday one will be real but I don’t think that today is the day.
BTW, I would have shot him too and would have done it with new ammo and current training.
I know some LEO types and I know that every serious perp has a plan to try and get him out of his situation. Knowing this makes me cynical when I hear an excuse from someone.
There are pro football player's who are 5'7" and quite large.
In regard to what I would do if I was being chased I would not jump through a window. I might smash a car window to set the alarm off or throw a brick,log,garbage can etc. through a house window to attract attention but I would not jump through a window in an occupied dwelling.
Once again I'm sorry for your lose.
Another thing, race has nothing to do with this. If a white guy jumped through a black guys window and was shot then oh well, he should not be prosecuted either.
Any relation to the TG that was the Danville Homecoming Queen in 96/97?
And how did you stumble over Free Republic just today (10 Oct 2008)?
Sorry to hear about your loss, was it David that went to the crime scene?
First of all, my heart goes out to D’s family. I can’t imagine the grief you’re feeling right now. I would ask everyone to please stop making assumptions about the circumstances of his entry into this man’s home until ALL the facts are known. Unless you were actually outside that building, you have no idea why D went through that window. And out of respect for his family (who is suffering enough grief over this tremendous loss), try to have a little compassion and not jump to so many conclusions.
Having said that, this is pretty frightening for anyone to go through, but especially for a 68-year-old Navy veteran who served this country in Vietnam. It’s sad that he would have to resort to that type of action in his own home, but under the circumstances, it’s a relief that he had the resources (and the right) to protect himself in that manner.
He said he acted on instinct. I believe that anyone would have acted in the same manner under the same circumstances. I certainly would have done whatever I needed to in order to defend myself and my home, and someone crashing through my bedroom window would definitely be cause for alarm.
I know for a fact that this homeowner regrets having to fire that gun under any circumstances, because this homeowner is my father. He has barely been able to sleep since that night and wishes that the whole incident never took place. This has obviously had a profound negative impact on him, regardless of the situation. I know that he regrets the results of his actions.
Please don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not trying to make light of what D’s family is going through. I just think we should consider the emotional impact on all of us who were affected by this.
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