Joe Biden's health care whopper

NY Daily News ^ | October 04 2008 | MICHAEL F. CANNON

[knighthawk]

In Thursday's vice presidential debate, Joe Biden changed his tune on John McCain's health care plan - but he's still singing off-key.

The centerpiece of McCain's plan is to alter the tax breaks the federal government grants those who purchase health insurance. Currently, every dollar your employer spends on health benefits avoids federal payroll and income taxes. If you don't have job-based coverage, you generally get nothing.

McCain proposes to eliminate that inequitable tax break and replace it with a universal tax credit. Every individual would get a flat $2,500 tax break, while families would get $5,000, no matter where you purchase health insurance.

[knighthawk]

Ping

[metmom]

I couldn’t believe what Biden came out with on the healthcare issue.

Palin delivers a reasonable, simple proposal.

Biden starts spewing numbers and figures till no one knew what he was talking about. I looked at my daughter and asked her if it made sense to her and she didn’t have a clue what he was talking about.

If he thought that it made him sound more intelligent, as in my daughter’s words..... *epic fail*.

[steve-b]

McCain's plan would mean higher taxes for people who have superior employer-based plans (i.e. the people who educated themselves and made themselves employable in the high-end jobs where employers have to offer everything but the kitchen sink to hire people) and lower taxes for people who have bare-bones plans (i.e. the people who partied their way through school and as a result have lower-end jobs where employers can take a take-it-or-leave-it approach).

It's pure anti-successful, anti-productive class warfare.

[pray4liberty]

They have a really vile television and radio ad running in Philly/New Jersey/Delaware spreading these lies.

[screaminsunshine]

Just read Drudge. The headline is going to make Obama news media go beserk.

[ColdWater]

McCain's plan would mean higher taxes for people who have superior employer-based plans (i.e. the people who educated themselves and made themselves employable in the high-end jobs where employers have to offer everything but the kitchen sink to hire people) and lower taxes for people who have bare-bones plans (i.e. the people who partied their way through school and as a result have lower-end jobs where employers can take a take-it-or-leave-it approach). It's pure anti-successful, anti-productive class warfare.

If I understand it correctly, you are supporting the existing plan which penalizes the independent worker and continues the anti-free market employer based insurance system that was championed in the 1950's by the unions as a way to bypass wage restrictions and got us into this mess in the first place by separating the consumer (us) from the cost-merit decision making in what type of health care coverage we desire and what type of health care we choose.

[Laserman]

It’s pure anti-successful, anti-productive class warfare.

As a small business owner I find this characterization insulting and total BS. I don not believe the employer belongs in the healthcare providing loop. It should be between the individual and the healthcare insurer/provider. It has nothing to do with whether you worked hard in school or not! And for $5000 per year a family should be able to get reasonable coverage while paying a modest deductible/co-pay.

[yazoo]

“they (the Dems) would prefer to let the government control that $9,000 you’ve got coming to you.”

This, in a nutshell, explains everything the Dems do. They want to control everything so the populace is beholden to them. It’s why they won’t let anyone invest some of their social security money, why they won’t support school vouchers, why they love medicare, etc. Letting people make choices is only valid when it comes to abortion.

[savedbygrace]

Admin Moderator,

Are we allowed to quote a paragraph of two from this source? There are a couple of extremely important ones I’d love to see added to the thread, rather than left at the link.

[metmom]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL6IV7fwwXk&feature=related

Biden on healthcare.

Does it make sense to ANYONE?

[steve-b]

Extending the existing deduction to independent purchasers would be fine. Replacing it with a flat dollar amount isn't -- as I said, it shafts the more hardworking and successful (who get high-end benefits because they earned them by qualifying for jobs where employers need to offer them to be competitive) in order to give more to the less hardworking and successful (who get less extensive coverage because their boss can easily find somebody else to do the job without dangling any additional carrots in front of them).

Basically, McCain is "reaching across the aisle" again. He's as flexible as Plastic Man in that regard.

[ColdWater]

Extending the existing deduction to independent purchasers would be fine. Replacing it with a flat dollar amount isn't -- as I said, it shafts the more hardworking and successful (who get high-end benefits because they earned them by qualifying for jobs where employers need to offer them to be competitive) in order to give more to the less hardworking and successful (who get less extensive coverage because their boss can easily find somebody else to do the job without dangling any additional carrots in front of them).

Why is a 'flat' deduction unfair? The employers are always free to increase wages to get the better employees. The employer based health care system is what got us into this mess. It separates the buyer from the supplier thus removing free market decisions from the process.

[Vermont Lt]

You obviously don’t run your own business. If you did you would redact the comment about hard working.

I left my cushy six figure corporate job, with its great bennies and options to start my own business.

Sometimes (not often) I look back at those sixty hour weeks and wonder what I would do with all that free time.

[ColdWater]

as I said, it shafts the more hardworking and successful (who get high-end benefits because they earned them by qualifying for jobs where employers need to offer them to be competitive)

That was true back in the fifties when wages were controlled and the unions fought back by demanding creative ways of increasing compensation. Now, it is obsolete. Companies can pay better wages if they want to keep their employees. The hardworking are NOT shafted.

[reg45]

employer based insurance system that was championed in the 1950's

It actually goes back further than that. It goes back to World War II, when employers used employer paid health insurance as a way to circumvent the wage and price controls put in place during the war.

[Laserman]

?
“You obviously don’t run your own business. If you did you would redact the comment about hard working.”

AS another who started his own business, I agree completely. The idea that just because someone is in a job that has good healthcare benefits that person is harder working or smarted is idiotic, and comes from someone who clearly does not know anything about starting or running a business.

The employer does not belong in the healthcare loop - period!

[jeffc]

A company I started working for in 1987 paid all of an employees healthcare cost, which included family. Now, they pay absolutely nothing - the employee must pay all of what is offered through the employer. (knowing these people, I would not be surprised if they raised the pay only for upper management to cover the cost of their own insurance).
I've seen the insurance costs for people who work at big-box stores. It's ridiculous! The only option they can afford is catostrophic coverage, and that is still a paycheck breaker for them. The managers are paid enough, and given enough hours, to be able to afford something that at least helps them with the average costs incurred for healthcare.

McCain's idea will help make healthcare more affordable and portable to the average worker, who is losing employer-based healthcare at a rapid rate.

[Republican Wildcat]

Once again, it appears Joe Biden had a “greater command of the facts” that he was making up out of the thin air.

[socialismisinsidious]

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