Kurdish Rebels Kill 15 Turkish Soldiers

Voice of America ^ | 4 Oct 2008 | anon

[BlackVeil]

The Turkish military says 15 of its soldiers have been killed in clashes with Kurdish rebels in southeastern Turkey.

At least 23 members of the rebel Kurdistan Workers Party were also killed in the fighting near the Iraqi border.

The Turkish military says it was responding to a rebel attack on a military outpost.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he will return early from an official visit in Turkmenistan because of the attack.

Turkey has carried out several air strikes and a brief ground offensive against PKK targets in northern Iraq this year. Turkey claims that the rebels base their operations from Iraq.

Turkish forces have also intensified attacks on Kurdish rebels in southeastern Turkey.

The PKK has been fighting for Kurdish autonomy in southeastern Turkey since 1984. The violence has killed at least 37,000 people.

Turkey, the United States and the European Union consider the PKK a terrorist group.

[BlackVeil]

The Turkish soldiers were killed within Turkey itself.

[wita]

...and as far as Turkey is concerned killing Kurds on their “home” territory will be fair play.

[eleni121]

Turks unleashed Kurds to strategically butcher Chrstians during the genocides of the early 20th centry.

It’s quite a distinct pleasure to see them going at each other now.
A pox on all of them.

[Alter Kaker]

It’s quite a distinct pleasure to see them going at each other now. A pox on all of them.

Let me guess... that's a "Christian" attitude? Somehow, I doubt very seriously that any of the Turks killed today had anything to do with the Armenian Genocide... or their parents or their grandparents for that matter. You're quite a character. Reveling in the death of innocents.

[eleni121]

You are quite a clueless holocaust denier....Turks have never apologized nor have they recoginized the genocide they perpetrated. Muslime after all ture to their koran ....Get a clue buster.

No justice no Peace

[ScreamingFist]

Get a clue buster.

Let me guess....you're Greek. I was with the Turks during a joint F-16 op between Turkey and Greece, much fun was had by all. Everyone agreed it was time to put the sillyass Turk/Greek hatred behind them....to bad the politicians are to stupid to listen to the people.

[LonghornFreeper]

You're quite a character. Reveling in the death of innocents.

Well, to be fair, these were not "innocents" they were Turkish soldiers. The US policy of calling everyone who opposes an oppressive government with force a "terrorist" is getting a little stale. The Iraqi insurgents who target civilians are without a doubt terrorists. As are the Taliban in Afghanistan, and Hezbollah and Hamas. If Kurdish groups intentionally target civilians, then those groups are terrorists. If they are targeting Turkish soldiers at a military base, I fail to see how this constitutes terrorism.

We support Taiwan and Tibet being free from China, and Georgia being free from Russia, and for that matter, we supported the Iraqi Kurds in being essentially autonomous from Saddam's control. It takes some real ethical jujitsu to explain how Kurds who oppose Turkish domination are automatically in the wrong.

[eleni121]

Let me guess: you are an apologist for thuggery and brutality on a grand scale. But that can't be...????

Read your history and then weep for a deeply flawed American stete dept managed policy that puts our heroes’ lives at the service of genocidal monsters like the Turks.

[ScreamingFist]

Read your history and then weep for a deeply flawed American stete dept managed policy that puts our heroes’ lives at the service of genocidal monsters like the Turks.

Yes yes, the PKK are just nice, fun loving people under the boot of the evil Turks. Spare me. I lived in Diyarbakir for a year, after watching those PKK savages slaughter school teachers and children, my pity level is low. The Turks will be mounting a payback as I type.......cry for your marxist friends.

[eleni121]

Marxists Shmarxists..we welcome the newly elected Maoist leader of Nepal in the White House...international politics is not what it was during the height of the cold war.

The Turks are fascist destablizers and deniers of freedom for people-—i am n fan of the kurds — they were murderers of children and women but the Turks were the Svengalis behind that genocide.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1192910

[UKTory]

“The US policy of calling everyone who opposes an oppressive government with force a “terrorist” is getting a little stale. The Iraqi insurgents who target civilians are without a doubt terrorists. As are the Taliban in Afghanistan, and Hezbollah and Hamas”

Actually the Taliban in Afghansitan are essentially engaged mainly in the same activities as the PKK, only directed against NATO and Afghan government forces in their case rather as opposed to Turkish forces in the case of the PKK.

What distinction are you making?

[SunkenCiv]

Turkey, the United States and the European Union consider the PKK a terrorist group.

Gee, any word on the PLO?

[omega4179]

Who is our ally here?

[LonghornFreeper]

Actually the Taliban in Afghansitan are essentially engaged mainly in the same activities as the PKK, only directed against NATO and Afghan government forces in their case rather as opposed to Turkish forces in the case of the PKK.

The Taliban in Afghanistan have launched quite a few bomb attacks against purely civilian targets, and other non-military government targets, including the Indian embassy. Their Pakistani counterparts have launched even more attacks against civilians.

Also, I am not saying that just because a group only attacks military targets means we shouldn't oppose them, and if necessary fight and kill them. The Japanese attacked a military target at Pearl Harbor, and did very little if any damage to any US civilian targets over the course of the war, but of course we had every right to fight and kill them.

My point is that not every group that fights against an established state is necessarily a terrorist group. Just like our own founding fathers, some groups have very legitimate reasons to rebel against their oppressive governments. The rebels in Sudan are one example of this, and if the Zimbabweans would ever mount an uprising, they would also fit the bill.

The US government seems to have decided at some point that any group which uses violence against an established goverment should put down their weapons and "end the cycle of violence". We tell them that they must negotiate, even when they are being oppressed and killed by their government. It is fortunate that those who met at the Continental Congress in 1776 were not like the men in our current State department.

[AdmSmith]

Who is our ally here?

It is a complicated answer, but the short version is that Turkey and the Kurds are our allies, but they sometimes have strange behavior. In Turkey we today have a trustworthy military but not so trustworthy politicians. Do they have a hidden Muslim agenda? The political system in Turkey is lacking a middle class, business friendly political party that is the back bone of a country aspiring for political stability and growth.

With respect to the Kurds we should discriminate between different groups. The Marxist inspired PKK was founded with assistance from KGB and still maintains close contact with the Russians. There are information that indicates that they were working on Russian instructions when they attacked the BTC pipeline at the start of the Russian-Gerorgian. Read about the pipeline here:

http://www.jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2374426

[nuconvert]

” information that indicates that they were working on Russian instructions when they attacked the BTC pipeline at the start of the Russian-Gerorgian.”

Thanks for the link

[nuconvert]

While I agree with some of your sentiments, I disagree with you saying “ The US policy of calling everyone who opposes an oppressive government with force a “terrorist” is getting a little stale.”
We most certainly do not have that policy. A group has to commit and sanction acts of terrorism .

[eleni121]

The Maoist leader of Nepal just had a dinner at the White House...we've been kow-towing to the Palis for years-—we've been sharing lamb kebabs with the Saudis for many years...we've been dim suming with the Chicoms for a long time...

And the worst are the Turks—the perpetrators of the first genocide in the 20th century.

get your blinders off.

[nuconvert]

Nothing you’ve said has anything to do with the statement I disagreed with you on.
“The US policy of calling everyone who opposes an oppressive government with force a “terrorist” is getting a little stale.”

[nuconvert]

Actually I had written to LonghornFreeper, not you.

[eleni121]

Tough luck ignoramus-—you want to post privately do it by email

[nuconvert]

My you’re such a polite, friendly person with such a winning personality - giving people orders, calling them names. Such a gentleman.

Have a nice day

[eleni121]

My you’re such a polite, friendly person ...a gentleman

---

well thanks I think. And I do not abide with genocide deniers. If foggy bottom doesn’t wake up from its wrongheaded immoral and amoral policies real soon - there won’t be anything left to quarrel about.

BTW —I’m a girl :>)

[eleni121]

Maybe those lovable Iranians can help their fellow Moolems the Turks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CPN5KN7RJs

[LonghornFreeper]

We most certainly do not have that policy. A group has to commit and sanction acts of terrorism.

Can you name a group fighting an oppressive government that the US has not at least repeatedly lectured and berated for not "resolving things peacefully" when clearly peace has failed? Or, to let a more eloquent man say it, "Men cry peace, peace, but there is no peace".

Also, when you say a group has to have committed "terrorist acts", that term requires a definition. If you define terrorist acts as deliberately targeting innocent civilians, then I agree completely, and the group deserves to be considered a terrorist group. However, it seems that we and others often cry terrorism even when the group is attacking a military target (as was the case with the incident in the original article).

Again, this doesn't mean that if we or our legitimate allies are attacked, we shouldn't fight back, even if the target was military. But if we have no dog in the fight, as I feel is the case with Turkey and the Kurds, or if the government itself is oppressive, than we should just stay the hell out, and not implicity take the side of the government by labeling the attacks terrorism. In some cases, such as Zimbabwe, we should actually encourage and support these type of attacks. Or has the US decided that "consent of the government" only applies to Americans, and everyone else take a long walk off a short pier?