"The text message sent by the engineer to Nick Williams, one of a group of teen train enthusiasts." CBS
Posted on 09/13/2008 6:49:23 PM PDT by BenLurkin
CHATSWORTH, Calif. (CBS) ― Metrolink officials Saturday put the blame squarely on the engineer of the train for the deadly crash that has claimed at least 25 lives. They say he ran a red light.
But a group of local teens, train enthusiasts, who know the engineer well doubt that he was to blame.
They called their friend professional and caring and said he helped them learn about trains and being an engineer. To a man, they said he would "never" have been reckless or unprofessional or run a red light.
But one minute before the deadliest crash in Metrolink history, one teen -- Nick Williams -- said he received a text message on his cell phone from the engineer, whom the teens identified as Robert Sanchez.
Williams' received text was brief, "Just two lines", reported KCAL 9 and CBS 2 reporter Kristine Lazar, exclusively.
The text apparently told Williams and his friends where Sanchez would be meeting another passenger train.
The teens posted a tribute to their friend on YouTube.
A Metrolink spokeswoman earlier stated that the train's engineer, who has not officially been named, ran a red signal.
Another one of the teens, Evan Morrison, told Lazar that Sanchez " was not the kind of guy who would run a red light."
None of them believe he was at fault.
Saturday, Sanchez's teen friends all went to the crash site. Mark Speer, choking back tears said, "this is absolutely devastating."
Denise Tyrell, a spokesperson for Metrolink commented on the report that Sanchez might have been texting immediately before the crash.
She said, "I can't believe someone could be texting while driving a train."
"The text message sent by the engineer to Nick Williams, one of a group of teen train enthusiasts." CBS
if true,
that’d be funny,
but it’s tragic
not funny.
Does anyone know the exact time of collision?
Just how old was Sanchez?
true.
He (the engineer) only SENT a short two line text message.
BUT that message was a reply to some message previously: They were having an extended conversation. THESE MESSAGES (both inbound, read, and outbound were what was distracting the engineer as he approached the other train.
Texting while driving?
Did he miss seeing the signal because he was texting?
Reportedly 4:23 pm.
Tragedy aside and it’s cause..... it seems that the dead-man switch would be backed by audible alarms for passing a red light would alert controllers, other trains and the engineer with his head up his butt for what ever reason.
Technology is there I am told..... I would hope !
And I bet the engineer, like all those cell phone junkies (some of them here), liked to say say "I know what I'm doing!" Famous last words.
“Trouble ahead....the Lady in Red.....”
Picture of him here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IZz0FkaiGg&feature=related
Credit LadyCalif for locating this link
I didn’t know a train COULD pass a red without the brakes coming on.
Nobody I know is “the type of person who would run a red light”.
And yet probably everyone I know has done so at one time or another, or more.
That’s what I thought when I read “two lines” Glad I read further.
Just imagine if while texting he missed seeing the red light.
Texting or talking on the phone while driving or operating a train is highly irresponsible.
Numerous studies have shown that talking on a cell phone while driving is incredibly dangerous.
The main reason why is that your brain is trying to form a visual picture of the person you are talking to at the time which distracts it from the task at hand.
How many times have you been driving while talking on the phone and arrived at your destination and could not recall how you got there.
If you don’t die in a crash, then, the brain cancer probably will kill you, it will just take a little longer:
Identified Fatalities (8)
» Alan Buckley, 59, Simi Valley, Fleet Mechanic City of Burbank
» Spree Desha, 35, Simi Valley, LAPD Officer
» Walt Fuller, 54, Simi Valley, Tower Manager/Air Traffic Controller , Burbank Airport
» Ernest Kish, 47, Thousand Oaks
» Paul Long, 54, Moorpark, English Teacher, Oaks Christian School
» Manuel Macias, Jr., 31, Santa Paula, Yoga Instructor
» Donna Remata, 49, Simi Valley, Los Angeles MTA employee
» Maria Villalobos, 18, None
Records last updated Sept. 13, 2008 at 6:50 p.m.
People text message while driving automobiles, which amazes me. I guess up in an engine passengers can not see you, so you think you can get away with more. I wonder what else goes on in the engineer’s seat which noone knows about.
I’m calling BS on the concept that he ‘missed’ a red light while text messaging.
First off, it’s not like the red lights at your everyday intersection.
It’s a series of red lights alongside the track.
SECOND, and most important, it’s not like the engineer turns the steering wheel to go off on a siding, while waiting for the other car to pass.
There are ‘switches’ in the tracks that reroute the train onto the siding. The only way you can get back on the main track is that the switches on that end change. This usually only happens after the other train passes, elsewise it would come head on at your on the siding.
Someone had to monkey with the lights and track switches for this to happen.
Just imagine if while Obama was texting he hit the red button!
Trains cannot deviate from the ‘track’.
The engineer has very little to do, compared to the driver of an automobile.
Pilots of airliners have no locked in path, like a train does, yet pilots rarely look out the window while flying.
This whole thing is being so erroneously explained by the media, and officials, that I have to wonder what really happened.
Trains don’t ‘go’ and ‘stop’ like automobiles, and even if there was such a thing as a ‘red light’ (as described in the articles so far), by the time the engineer ‘saw’ it, there would be absolutely nothing he could do to stop the train.
A cars ‘stopping’ distance is measured in feet, a train’s stopping distance is measured in miles.
Anyone who has ever had model trains and tracks, or experience in real trains, knows this whole story stinks.
I know nothing of how the systems work, but I have to agree with you that there must be more to this than a simple matter of missing a signal. I find it hard to believe that any system today would permit two trains going in opposite directions to on the same piece of track at the same time.
“BUT that message was a reply to some message previously: They were having an extended conversation. THESE MESSAGES (both inbound, read, and outbound were what was distracting the engineer as he approached the other train.”
Baloney.
The ‘red light’ is a series of red lights, and once on the siding, stay red until the other train passes.
The only way to get onto the siding, is that the track ‘switches’. The engineer doesn’t control these switches.
Since these two trains were on the same track, that means someone or something switched over the track and turned the lights green. There is no other way a train gets from a siding and back onto the main track.
There ain’t no steering wheel in a train.
You need to read up on the specifics.
I know that this will sound like I'm a conspiracy theorist, but I do hope that this is thoroughly investigated by an outside agency. I wouldn't put it past government officials to utilize a 'fall guy' on which to place blame. Sort of a cover-up for some other significant failure.
And evidence that this engineer was texting while he was being paid to pay attention is a pretty clear indictment.
There's a reason for local laws about vehicle drivers not using a hand-held cell phone while driving. This is the worst-case real-world proof that those laws make sense. And save lives.
If there were red lights, they were before the siding, and just prior to the end of the siding.
If they are on, the engineer slows down, the track is ‘switched’ and the train routes off to the siding.
After it clears the switch, the switch changes back for thru traffic.
At the end of the siding, the switch is set for thru traffic, and the train on the siding must wait until the lights go green and the switch changes to allow the train back onto the main track.
Somehow, this didn’t happen. The engineer does not control the lights or switches.
Methinks the RR company is trying to lay off blame on the engineer, because of lawsuits.
Or it was a terrorist act, and the feds are keeping it under wraps until they can investigate further.
I guess that is supposed to be humorous, but the situation isn’t, and the truth is that trains don’t have a steering wheel.
Since the lights change only when the track ‘switches’, this cannot be a simple matter of an engineer not ‘stopping’ at a red light.
The whole ‘explanation’ we are getting in the media is nothing but misinformed caca.
Perhaps you could explain how a train gets to a ‘siding’ while another train passes.
At about 4:22 PM PST. The sam time as the message showed.
This accident wasnt on a siding. The switch was lined for the s/b freight while the n/b Metrolink went through it, and passed the red light.
I do not understand the mechanics of trains and tracks but I do hope there is some final explanation as to what happened. It doesn’t make sense.
The red light indicates a train occupying the next block.
“I didn’t know a train COULD pass a red without the brakes coming on.”
Of course they can - just like you can go through a stop light with the car.
Even in cab-signalled territory where I work (Northeast Corridor), with continuous cab signals that indicate block occupancy, trains can _still_ pass Stop Signals, albeit at speeds of 15-20mph. The cab signal system can slow you down, but it WON’T _stop_ you.
The only exception that I know of in the United States is that portion of Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor in which the “ACSES” system is in place. There, a train will be forced to stop before passing a Stop Signal.
In the overwhelming majority of track in the U.S., there is no speed enforcement system at all. Signals are in place that indicate the occupancy of blocks ahead, but it is up to the engineman to live up to what they indicate.
Before anyone reading this posting comes out with the remark that “if that’s the case, the government should require that safety systems be installed everywhere”, you should realize the cost of doing this would be billions of dollars. Ain’t gonna happen any time soon....
- John
Let’s lay the blame on the dead man who can not defend himself instead of bureaucrats higher up that have careers to protect.
“Just imagine if while texting he missed seeing the red light.
Texting or talking on the phone while driving or operating a train is highly irresponsible.”
That’s probably what happened.
Where I work, it’s against the rules to use a cell phone while at the controls of a train. It’s even against the rules to copy railroad-related instructions from the train dispatcher, while in control of the train. In the latter case, either the train must be stopped first, or someone else must do the copying.
Of course, it’s premature to speak with certainty before the post-accident investigations are completed, but from the results, you can well understand WHY they don’t want the engineman distracted while running the train.
- John
This hits me hard. I live in Southern California and know several people who take the MetroLink daily. People just like those who lost their lives Friday who we’re just going about their daily routine, coming home from work to be with their families. My heart and prayers with for all those who have lost thier dear loved ones.
Hey now.
Just thinking about it seems to raise several questions. It’s not the color of the signal lights that solves the conflict but the position of the various switches. If the the signal was red it must have meant the track wasn’t clear, so the switches should have been set to get one of the trains off the track and onto a siding.
Nothing about this makes sense. But again, I have NO understanding whatsoever of how the system works and am really just guessing at conditions.
It still seems to me there must have been a discrepancy between the signals and the switches.
It’s going to be interesting to see what develops. Sad, but interesting. My first thought was sabotage of some sort, these trains do this every day, and have done this every day for years. Why is it today they run into each other?
“There are ‘switches’ in the tracks that reroute the train onto the siding. The only way you can get back on the main track is that the switches on that end change. This usually only happens after the other train passes, elsewise it would come head on at your on the siding.
Someone had to monkey with the lights and track switches for this to happen.”
Nonsense. You simply don’t know what you’re talking about.
The signal system in on CTC (Centralized Traffic Control) single track can’t display clear signals for opposing movements. When a train enters from one end of the single track, it will “knock down” all the other opposing signals.
If the passenger train got by a Stop Signal at a passing siding, it would “run through” the switch in the reverse position without derailing (would break the switch, though), and keep going.
If the reports that the engineman of the Metrolink train was busy sending a text message (and not paying attention to the signals ahead), he might well have passed the distant signal displaying “Approach”, continued by the next signal displaying “Stop”, run through the switch, and ended up on the single track in front of the oncoming freight.
This is how the Gunpow wreck on Amtrak happened in 1987. A Conrail light engine move missed a Stop Signal, ran out in front of oncoming Amtrak train #94 (approaching at 125+mph), and the wreck that followed killed 17 people and led to national legislation requiring federal “certification” of locomotive engineers. I’ve got my “certificate” in my pocket right now.
- John
Since you know rail communications thoroughly, I am pinging you for your thoughts on this tragedy.
“I know nothing of how the systems work, but I have to agree with you that there must be more to this than a simple matter of missing a signal. I find it hard to believe that any system today would permit two trains going in opposite directions to on the same piece of track at the same time.”
After the investigations are conducted, it will almost certainly come down to a single finding:
The engineer of one train missed a Stop Signal, and ended up on single track in the face of an opposing train.
You better start “believing”.
There is only ONE section of railroad in the entire United States where a train will be forced to a dead stop before passing a Stop Signal. That’s on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor, in the section between New Haven Connecticut and Boston upon which the “ACSES” system is in place. I believe they’ve also got ACSES operational on certain portions of the Corridor between New York and Washington.
Anywhere else, a train can pass a Stop Signal just as easily as you can pass a red traffic light in your own car. In cab signaled systems (again, not in place where this accident occurred), a train might be slowed to 20mph by the speed control apparatus, but it can STILL pass a Stop Signal without coming to a complete stop.
The truth is, almost everywhere in the United States (except where I’ve described), trains CAN end up (in your words) “going in opposite directions to on the same piece of track at the same time.”
What keeps them from doing that?
Answer: the integrity and character of the folks running ‘em.
It’s really that simple.
- John
Thank you for the insight.
He was obviously texting while operating the train.
I don’t know if MetroLink has the same rules, but, it would be hard to believe that they don’t.
His actions are reprehensible. What a terrible tragedy caused by one irresponsible person.
If the text message was sent one-minute before the crash, then, Metrolink officials should be able to calculate where the train was when he sent the message.
It wouldn’t surprise me if it was right near the location of the red light.
I’m sorry, but, the potential that this person killed this many people because of a text message infuriates me.
This one was not Jerry's fault ...
Scary. Scary how misinformation can spread through Al Goron’s invention. This thread is the best example. Pretend you know, and MSM doesn’t, and millions will believe you. Until someone with a certificate in his pocket (he says) comes along and presents his version, pretty much confirming the “lying MSM’s” version. Who do you believe?
One of my daughter’s Navy girlfriends was on that train. She had just called my daughter and moved back a couple cars so that she wouldn’t disturb the passengers around her with their conversation and was still there when this happened. The car she was in originally was one of the ones that got smooshed. I don’t think she realizes yet that Someone above was watching out for her.
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