Posted on 08/19/2008 4:58:42 AM PDT by SJackson
We are constantly reminded about the destructive consequences of religion -- intolerance, hatred, division, inquisitions, persecutions of "heretics," holy wars. Though far from the whole story, they are, nevertheless, true. There have been many awful consequences of religion. What one almost never hears described are the deleterious consequences of secularism -- the terrible developments that have accompanied the breakdown of traditional religion and belief in God. For every thousand students who learn about the Spanish Inquisition and the Salem Witch Trials, maybe two learn to associate Gulag, Auschwitz, The Cultural Revolution, and the Cambodian genocide with secular regimes and ideologies.
For all the problems associated with belief in God, the death of God leads to far more of them.
So, while it is not possible to prove (or disprove) God's existence, what is provable is what happens when people stop believing in God.
1. Without God there is no good and evil; there are only subjective opinions that we then label "good" and "evil." This does not mean that an atheist cannot be a good person. Nor does it mean that all those who believe in God are good; there are good atheists and there are bad believers in God. It simply means that unless there is a moral authority that transcends humans from which emanates an objective right and wrong, "right" and "wrong" no more objectively exist than do "beautiful" and "ugly."
2. Without God, there is no objective meaning to life. We are all merely random creations of natural selection whose existence has no more intrinsic purpose or meaning than that of a pebble equally randomly produced.
3. Life is ultimately a tragic fare if there is no God. We live, we suffer, we die -- some horrifically, many prematurely -- and there is only oblivion afterward.
4. Human beings need instruction manuals. This is as true for acting morally and wisely as it is for properly flying an airplane. One's heart is often no better a guide to what is right and wrong than it is to the right and wrong way to fly an airplane. The post-religious secular world claims to need no manual; the heart and reason are sufficient guides to leading a good life and to making a good world.
5. If there is no God, the kindest and most innocent victims of torture and murder have no better a fate after death than do the most cruel torturers and mass murderers. Only if there is a good God do Mother Teresa and Adolf Hitler have different fates.
6. With the death of Judeo-Christian values in the West, many Westerners believe in little. That is why secular Western Europe has been unwilling and therefore unable to confront evil, whether it was Communism during the Cold War or Islamic totalitarians in its midst today.
7. Without God, people in the West often become less, not more, rational. It was largely the secular, not the religious, who believed in the utterly irrational doctrine of Marxism. It was largely the secular, not the religious, who believed that men's and women's natures are basically the same, that perceived differences between the sexes are all socially induced. Religious people in Judeo-Christian countries largely confine their irrational beliefs to religious beliefs (theology), while the secular, without religion to enable the non-rational to express itself, end up applying their irrational beliefs to society, where such irrationalities do immense harm.
8. If there is no God, the human being has no free will. He is a robot, whose every action is dictated by genes and environment. Only if one posits human creation by a Creator that transcends genes and environment who implanted the ability to transcend genes and environment can humans have free will.
9. If there is no God, humans and "other" animals are of equal value. Only if one posits that humans, not animals, are created in the image of God do humans have any greater intrinsic sanctity than baboons. This explains the movement among the secularized elite to equate humans and animals.
10. Without God, there is little to inspire people to create inspiring art. That is why contemporary art galleries and museums are filled with "art" that celebrates the scatological, the ugly and the shocking. Compare this art to Michelangelo's art in the Sistine chapel. The latter elevates the viewer -- because Michelangelo believed in something higher than himself and higher than all men.
11. Without God nothing is holy. This is definitional. Holiness emanates from a belief in the holy. This explains, for example, the far more widespread acceptance of public cursing in secular society than in religious society. To the religious, there is holy speech and profane speech. In much of secular society the very notion of profane speech is mocked.
12. Without God, humanist hubris is almost inevitable. If there is nothing higher than man, no Supreme Being, man becomes the supreme being.
13. Without God, there are no inalienable human rights. Evolution confers no rights. Molecules confer no rights. Energy has no moral concerns. That is why America's Founders wrote in the Declaration of Independence that we are endowed "by our Creator" with certain inalienable rights. Rights depend upon a moral source, a rights giver.
14. "Without God," Dostoevsky famously wrote, "all is permitted." There has been plenty of evil committed by believers in God, but the widespread cruelties and the sheer number of innocents murdered by secular regimes -- specifically Nazi, Fascist and Communist regimes -- dwarfs the evil done in the name of religion.
As noted at the beginning, none of this proves, or even necessarily argues for, God's existence. It makes the case for the necessity, not the existence, of God. "Which God?" the secularist will ask. The God of Israel, the God of America's founders, "the Holy God who is made holy by justice" (Isaiah), the God of the Ten Commandments, the God who demands love of neighbor, the God who endows all human beings with certain inalienable rights, the God who is cited on the Liberty Bell because he is the author of liberty. That is the God being referred to here, without whom we will be vanquished by those who believe in less noble gods, both secular and divine.
Tell this to all who are supporting Obama, please.
this is a repost
Definitely worth reaching a wider readership.
right on the money!!
If the author(s) is certain or merely under the impression that a born-in-America atheist cannot live a Christian-valued or by-the-Golden Rule, etc. (Buddhism) life anywhere in the world (or vice-versa) today, then I am happy to vehemently disagree.
It is a total misconception and ridiculously inadequate representation of the belief systems of millions of American citizens and billions of people the world over to suggest that Atheism equates to an effective absence of perception of good and evil and/or beauty and ugliness if ugliness can be described as a perceived absence of the presence of beauty. In fact, it is an abuse of the power of suggestion because the author fails to present in any way, shape or form, any representation of an actual atheist’s personal viewpoint, be they American or not. After all, we are not the Infidel.
Because of this lack of concern or complete disregard for viewpoints other than the author’s, etc. own opinion(s), it is fair to say that the article’s stated OPINIONS border on religious bigotry and goes far to malign the deeply held beliefs of millions of responsible, patriotic, loving and good people who can be proud to call themselves good Americans and rightly so.
That is not at all what the author claimed.
It is a total misconception and ridiculously inadequate representation of the belief systems of millions of American citizens and billions of people the world over to suggest that Atheism equates to an effective absence of perception of good and evil
The author's contention (and it is true) is that, if there is no God, then there is no objective standard of good and evil. That's obvious - look around you at the varying opinions of mankind about what is good and what is evil.
The moral posturing of atheists who think atheism is morally superior to religion is one of the great comedies of our age.
My experience with Obama supporters, and dhimmirat voters in general,
is that they simply deny that those they support
are in favor of infanticide, socialism, fascism, and authoritarian control over the individual.
“They’re/he’s pro-choice, not pro-infanticide, that’s a distortion!”
“They’re Democrats! Not Socialists!”
Wow, you don’t read very well, eh?
They consider themselves “above the fray”, and the “default position” for which they don’t have to “have faith”.
The most arrogant people I know are atheists. And “conservative” atheists are the worst.
Every human is “wired to worship”. Leftist atheists worship the power of “society” and the state. “Conservative” atheists worship themselves.
As the author stated, without a Creator, there is no objective source for “inalienable rights”. Therefore, the state giveth, and the state taketh away.
You can’t be a conservative atheist.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
“secular regimes — specifically Nazi, Fascist and Communist regimes”
The Wehrmacht had “God is with Us” stamped on their beltbuckles, and Communism arose under the shackles of the brutal feudal czarist system...which was supported by the Orthodox Church. Stalin himself was educated in a seminary.
So, don’t let religion COMPLETELY off the hook...
Beat me to it :)
So?
In case you hadn’t noticed, the first word I used was “If” but I still disagree with the categorical descriptions, however many, enumerated in the article.
“...if there is no God, then there is no objective standard of good and evil.”
Again, I am happy to disagree with that assumption. However, I agree that a person’s believing in a benevolent god or creator does enhance one’s awareness of the difference between good and evil. I think it’s unfair to assume that non-believers are somehow ‘disabled’ in their capacity to develop the very same awareness.
“...look around you at the varying opinions of mankind about what is good and what is evil.”
Everything varies because it IS a world of difference. The difference between this and that or then and now. That’s just the way it is. I accept the simple fact that it’s always been and will always be a world of difference, be it dead or alive.
“Wow, you don’t read very well, eh?”
Sorry, “...-the bloody history of militant atheism” (title) just sort of jumped off the page a little more than the rest of it. Probably because I’m more keenly aware of the bloody history of Christianity, not to mention the myriad others throughout the history of the world.
.
Got Mittens?
Really?
The Khmer Rouge followed a harsh brand of communism, killing nearly two million people in their bid to return Cambodia to Year Zero. Now they have a new faith: evangelical Christianity. Hundreds of former fighters have been baptised in the past year.
-snip-
For many, it offers a hope of salvation. 'When I was a soldier I did bad things. I don't know how many we killed. We were following orders and thought it was the right thing to do,' said Thao Tanh, 52. 'I read the Bible and I know it will free me from the weight of the sins I have committed'.
___________________________________
Now, what about the nonchristian torture victims of these repentant Khmer, eh?
And what about Jewish Holocaust victims vs. Nazis who later repented and accepted Jesus - which get into Heaven and which are cast into an eternal Furnace of Fire?
My dog knows the difference between right and wrong. This is empirical. I can show an example at will.
I guess my dog believes in God? Or maybe she has magical special biological properties that give her superduper ‘right/wrong’ decision making skills, without having the requirement humans apparently have of believing in God before you can know right from wrong.
Say, is removing part of a male baby’s penis, without his consent, for cultural reasons right or wrong? I’m an atheist, and I think its wrong, but what do I know. When the doctor asked me if I wanted my boy cut, I said hell no, but how about we take a little off the ears? I do love a good cropped ear. I guess if I believed in God I’d know its right and how its different from female genitalia mutilation practiced by the heathen Muslums.
Haven't a clue, I don't make that decision. Presuming they ceased mayhem upon accepting Jesus, I think it's a good thing. Which in no way exempts them from prosecution for any crimes committed.
should read...”throughout the history of the Homo Sapien-inhabited world.”
You imply that they continued their wicked ways after their conversion.
I don’t see that at all in your post. I see repentance.
Yes, if, which is unlikely, since he didn't make the "point" you're addressing.
As is represented in the presence or absence of a religious entity, that is an absolute. Good and evil ARE subjective according to the measurements one is given to use.
The author wasn't "letting religion off the hook", not his opening paragraph.
We are constantly reminded about the destructive consequences of religion -- intolerance, hatred, division, inquisitions, persecutions of "heretics," holy wars. Though far from the whole story, they are, nevertheless, true. There have been many awful consequences of religion. What one almost never hears described are the deleterious consequences of secularism -- the terrible developments that have accompanied the breakdown of traditional religion and belief in God.
He's addressing the idea that we'd be better off without religion, morality a purely secular concern.
Ironically the underlying objective of Hitler and Stalin, who targeted religion for eradication
I suspect your dog knows the difference between behavior that produces desireable results (praise, reward, pleasant interaction) and behaviors that precipitate scolding, punishment or other unwanted outcomes. That learned response has no bearing on God, or whether an objective standard of right and wrong exists.
It’s not just the mass genocide of the past century,
we’re having our own genocide in America today due to secularism.
Can someone honestly say our culture and society are better today than they were before school prayer was outlawed?
Amen!!
Atheists who expect an instinctive reaction against "mass murder," like homosexuals who expect an instinctive reaction against "hate," are moral parasites living off of and dependent on the moral sensibilities created by what they want to do away with.
Thanks for posting this article.
Please see my post.
In the article, the author associates this with the evil acts of governments and regimes. I'll take a different tack.
"All is permitted"...homosexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, necrophilia, swinging...all kinds of perversions. Also, hate is permitted. Hatred of everyone...conservatives, families, Christians...anyone they don't agree with. Not only that, if you're permitted to hate them, it stands to reason that if "all is permitted", you're also allowed to destroy them.
That's why liberals love the idea of atheism: It allows them to do whatever they want, as much as they want, to their evil little heart's content...and there's no consequences, nothing and no one to answer to.
Sweet deal for them, eh?
Too bad it's a complete deception. Too bad for them, anyway.....
Right, "my" Bible teaches me that the victims of Stalin and Hitler are all burning in hell.
Honestly, do you know how stupid you look when you make up things like this?
No, I assume they (converted Nazis and Khmer) are truly repentant and remain so.
It completely refutes Prager's point #5 since the Jewish and nonchristian victims are cast into an eternal Furnace of Fire. Or am I misinterpreting KJV?
“You can’t be a conservative atheist.”
Rush Limbaugh’s number one “Undeniable Truth In Life” is that “There IS a god.”. However, Rush is just a guy with his opinions and he has a right to list all of HIS as being undeniable. If I’m in agreement with all of them but the first one on the list, am I NECESSARILY something other than a conservative? I don’t think so. Ask me about where I stand on the many OTHER undeniable truth’s in life on Rush’s list and THEN let’s see how it shakes out.
I wouldn’t have used the term parasite, though there are symbiotic relationships in which parasites are quite valuable, but you’re right, the values have to be absorbed from somewhere.
Yes, there is a problem with his “theology” there.
When you state that someone’s level of goodness or wickedness affects their eternal salvation,
you’re saying that you can “get right with God” through works, as if anything you do can make you “good enough”.
This is a terrible falsehood being perpetuated by self proclaimed Christians, of all people.
No, no one is good. Not one. The only salvation available is as a gift of Grace that you either accept or reject.
...”since he didn’t make the “point” you’re addressing.”
Hey, it’s my point to make and I’m making it, however inconvenient for some but not for others.
Inalienable rights endowed to us by our Creator is the basis of classical liberalism, ie Conservatism.
If those rights are not endowed by a power higher than any government of Men, they can just as easily be taken away, and we’d have no right to complain, no Objective Standard to appeal to.
You know, people like you are really starting to annoy me.
First of all, the Bible doesn't belong to chr*stianity. It is a JEWISH book that has been appropriated by chr*stianity. Muvan? (That means "understood?" I doubt that you know Leshon HaQodesh.)
Second of all, while chr*stian believer certainly outnumber Jews (who are, according to the Torah, hame`at mikkol ha`ammim), that doesn't change the fact that atheism's main argument is not with chr*stianity, or islam, or z*r*astrianism, but with Judaism. Atheists like to pretend this is otherwise for two reasons: 1)chr*stianity, not being the true religion, is easily dismissed, and 2)Jewish survival being the main evidence of the existence of G-d in history, atheists are compelled to invert Jewish existence into an indictment of religious belief. Be`ezrat HaShem (that means with G-d's help) I intend to post my ruminations on this phenomenon at length come the penetential month of 'Elul.
But finally, as I have said before, you atheists have no grounds to object to murder, torture, hatred, or any other "evil" you invoke because without G-d, objective evil cannot exist. That's right, unlike chr*stianity (which teaches that G-d has an "evil counterpart" who is responsible for all the bad stuff), Torah teaches that G-d is absolute, with no rival or great metaphysical enemy to struggle against. G-d's decrees determine what is right and what is wrong, which means that the problem of evil is a problem, not for Monotheists, but for atheists, since you have no grounds to label the evils you rail against as "evils" at all. And yes, that includes the Nazis. It includes everything--muvan???
Why don't you Randians stop wasting time online and go count your precious money?
My apologies to all parasites everywhere for insulting them by comparing them to atheists with moral hang-ups!
LOL!!
Not all, just the ones who had not accepted Salvation at their death. Does the NT say nonchristians can be Saved, or are they cast into a Furnace of Fire?
That's my understanding, which is completely irrelevant regarding the beliefs of athiests. They don't look to the New Testament so far as I know.
When men or mankind first decided that there would be a concept of god it had to be the most liberal decision ever made up to that point in time but that’s just one man’s conservative opinion- mine!
It’s funny when someone who is ignorant finds something factual to be funny.
Let me explain 9 and 12 to you.
GOD is THE Supreme Being.
Man is created in His image, and thus has more intrinsic value than animals, but is NOT Supreme.
Man is commanded to steward and subdue the earth and all that is in it.
I see your base assumption:
“In the beginning, nothing”
My assumption:
“In the beginning, God”
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