Posted on 08/11/2008 4:57:48 AM PDT by CT-Freeper
WATERBURY — Now Mark Albino has two reasons for not liking California very much.
Albino, owner of C&M Antiques & Collectibles, a company that sells a wide range of antiques exclusively through Internet auction sites, said he has been selling vintage American flags on eBay for the past five years. eBay, based in San Jose, Calif., is far and away the largest auction site on the Internet.
Though Albino is a designated eBay power seller, which means his auctions have resulted in sales of at least $76,000 over the past 30 days, and though he has somewhere between 250 and 800 auctions under way on the site on any given day, he has apparently held his last auction on the site involving vintage flags.
It seems eBay has a problem with Albino's flag auctions, or at least the restrictions that accompany them.
"Those are wonderful items, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that would be interested in bidding on them," said Usher Lieberman, an eBay spokesman, speaking of Albino's flags. "But we have pulled those auctions off the site. All our sellers must abide by the rules and policies we have established and we can't make any exceptions."
Albino said he has been running an average of about 15 vintage flag auctions per year on eBay and has sold somewhere between 75 and 100 flags on the site over the past five years. He acquires the flags primarily through estate auctions.
The flags vary in size and value and generally date from the 1870s to the 1940s. Winning bids range from $50 to $500, he said.
Every vintage flag auction Albino has ever run on eBay has contained the following caveat to potential bidders.
"Please note that this flag is not for sale to anyone residing in any country in the Middle East, France, and the State of California (unless you can show proof of serving in the U.S. military) or to any person in any country not allied to the USA. I reserve the right not to sell this flag to anyone I deem may be disrespectful to it. God bless America and its true allies."
And therein, according to eBay, lies the problem.
As an eBay auctioneer, Albino can choose not to ship his items internationally, or he can choose to ship them anywhere in the world, said Lieberman. What he can't do is choose to ship internationally and then arbitrarily rule out certain individual countries.
"You either sell your items to international bidders or you don't," he said. "Choosing to open your auctions to international bidders and then not accepting bids from certain countries, for whatever reason, violates our Search and Browse Manipulation policy."
As for prohibiting residents of California from bidding on his flags, Lieberman said that's something eBay is simply not going to tolerate.
"Our auctions are open to anyone in the United States," he said. "We're not in the business of restricting bidders based on their geographical location. That's just not something we do.
"We don't deny access to perfectly legitimate buyers based on where they live. He certainly has the right to sell his flags to whomever he wants, but when he's doing it on our site he has to abide by our policies."
Lieberman said Albino's flag auctions were also pulled off the site because his refusal to sell the flag to residents of the Middle East, France or California, as well as to people living in countries not allied to the United States, is an "inappropriate seller term" and violates the user policy all eBay sellers must agree to.
"Under terms of the User Agreement, sellers agree to deliver all items purchased from them unless the buyer fails to meet posted terms, or the seller can't verify the buyer's identity," eBay's Trust & Safety department said in a recent e-mail to Albino.
In all, eBay pulled three of Albino's auctions off its site on Aug. 1: an auction for a 46 x 32-inch 1896 Indian Wars era 45-star American flag; an auction for a larger 114 x 72-inch 1896 American flag, and an auction for a 32 x 56-inch 48-star World War II era American flag.
Albino said he has been selling flags with the same disclaimer for five years and eBay has never said a word to him. His first inkling that something might be wrong came July 31, when a stranger from New Jersey called him to tell him his flag auctions were going to be discussed on eBay's Internet radio Webcast.
The following morning, he received a critical e-mail from a California resident who said the prohibition against selling the flag to Californians offended him. Three hours later, he received a call from eBay management warning him his flag auctions would be deleted unless he revised his disclaimer.
Shortly after that, the three auctions disappeared from the site.
Albino, a 43-year-old Plymouth resident, served eight years in the Navy, including five years of active duty. He said he was born into a military family, the son of a veteran of both World War II and the Korean War, and unabashedly describes himself as a man who loves and respects his country.
He said he placed the caveat on his flag auctions because he worries that people in the stated geographic locations might be acquiring the flags strictly to destroy them.
"I refuse to be a party to anyone desecrating or burning the U.S. flag," he said. "Too many good people have died defending that flag."
He said he refuses to sell the flag to nonmilitary bidders from California because he has read on "numerous" Internet sites and has confirmed through independent research that more U.S. flags are burned in California than in any other state.
"I believe it's my right not to sell the flag to someone I think is going to destroy it," he said. It's that simple."
Mark Albino, owner of C&M Antiques and Collectibles in Waterbury, was contacted by eBay and told he could not sell vintage U.S. flags on their auction site because Albino restrict the sale to anyone from California, France or the Middle East. (Jim Shannon / RA)
While I admire the man’s enthusiasm, I can’t see how anybody would really think he wouldn’t get in trouble for pulling something like this. It’s not his site, so he has to follow their rules. It’s as simple as that.
Though Albino is a designated eBay power seller, which means his auctions have resulted in sales of at least $76,000 over the past 30 days.
He must be rolling in the dough. That's around $900K annually, I think.
I used to sell on eBay all the time and I’m pretty sure you can choose to not sell to certain countries, but you can’t sell just to certain states within the United States, I don’t think. Not selling to California was probably the problem here, not the Middle East or France.
Actually, he should sell to California, just not to Berkeley zip codes. :O)
Correct. Refusing to ship to certain foreign countries is no problem. I see everyday sellers refusing to ship to Nigeria, China, Syria, Iran or certain European locations. Some are based on bad expirience, some on caution and some on political reasons. It's no big deal.
Yeah, I don’t think it would’ve been a problem if he had excluded parts of the world. I sell occasionally as well and I don’t remember exactly what the restrictions were, but I recall being able to isolate certain countries and/or areas of the world. (For example, the U.S. and Canada.)
He can’t just arbitrarily not ship to California, though. If he doesn’t want to ship to Europe or the Middle East, that’s fine; he can specify that in his auction. California would prevent him from shipping anywhere.
I just think the guy should know better. He can’t reserve any rights since he has to abide by the terms of the facilitator. If he is that paranoid about who is buying his items, he shouldn’t be selling them through an effectively anonymous venue.
That's not true. There are zillions eBay sellers who refuse to ship to countries such as Nigeria, Indonesia, or (this started recently) even Italy. As for the US domestic, how many of them say "Only to the 48 lower states" or something to that effect, leaving out Hawaii and Alaska?
His refusal to sell to Californians, however, is a bit over the top.
“No international sales” is always a restriction in my eBay auction and almost every sale gets an email question, “how much will it cost to ship to Canada”.
**California, France or the Middle East.**
“This establishment retains the right to refuse service to ANYONE” ... once words to protect the proprietor, now BAIT for the ACLU.
At the same time, eBay would refuse him to sell a NAZI flag to the Mideast, France or California. or ANYONE for that matter.
PowerSELLER ... that makes a LOT of Money eBay is giving up, and if EBAY is willing to allow Politics to soften their bottom line, so be it (sounds like a NObama voter)... there are other auction sites. I will have to rethink my relationship with eBay.
How about Hawaii and Alaska?
At the same time Mr. Albino’s restrictions sound perfectly reasonable, and for very sound reasons. The eBay crowd should adjust their rules.
I'll take 3.
I think a US Seller has to sell to those two as well.
Unfortunately, that's not the case. What irk me more is when they say they ship with USPS, but don't want to ship to HI. I'm talking about small stuff that can go to Priority Mail box.
Easy enough. Don’t ship Internationally and advise California residents that there is an additional $500 for shipping and handling to their state.
There’s no real ‘right’ answer here.
eBay is not the public square and they are entitled to establish policies, inform users of their policies (which ALL sellers agree to before listing items) and enforce those policies. If eBay were to allow sellers to restrict sales by state then no doubt the feds would target them for restricting (or assisting in the restriction of) interstate commerce.
The seller probably knows that his ‘policies’ (actually just preferences) are unenforceable on the eBay end and on the buyer end (what’s to stop a motivated flag burner and/or Californian from using a third party to bid/buy?) but he’s making a statement. Unfortunately he’s doing so with a borrowed microphone.
Back to eBay...they have developed a serious case of selective eyesight over the years. Heaps of dodgy sellers from the Pacific Rim and elsewhere are rife on eBay selling goods they flat-out don’t have or are counterfeit. Of course, the seller’s fees are collected up front so what does eBay care?
that would solve the problem
Ebay’s site, Ebay’s rules...
I personally like his enthusiasm and respect for the flag, and I am glad it got this amount of intention. I hope it is good advertising for him.
Just one more reason why eBay sucks.
Yep, by ticking off eBay, he became a hero. He’ll do well out of this, and more power to him!
“No international sales...how much will it cost to ship to Canada?”Sounds like good business to me.Note:I’ve been buying on ebay for several years(200+ transactions)and very happy with my purchaces-with only two exceptions.Both sellers from Canada.After repeated attempts to reconcile,Ebay closed down their accounts,but at the end of the day i was still sc@@@ed.Fortunately they were small $$ items but it’s the principal.Live and learn.Later
Ebay stinks. 1st they banned guns, then gun related items, and then items mentioning guns. Total left coast liberal mentality. They don’t get the fact that he is trying to protect US flags from desecration. In true free trade, you can pick and chose who you want to sell to. Example: Many US businesses post a sign stating, “We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone!”
If you want to burn a flag, why go for the time and expense of burning a more expensive vintage flag? Who would notice the difference, or distinction, during your protest?
Seems as if there’s some baggage here that Ebay just doesn’t want to deal with.
Ebay has been building up a lot of bad karma lately, raising fees and insulting their long-time faithful sellers and just generally throwing their weight around.
Never fear, in their power-crazed delusion that they are exerting decisive influence over the course of world events, they will eventually be brought to their knees by a competitor like Google or Amazon.
Yes. And E-bay is within their rights to pick and choose their terms and conditions.
I wonder if he has ever been to California?
So does PayPal, which is really, one in the same (See: http://ww.paypalsucks.com/)
I used to sell on Ebay and then had (FOR NO LEGITIMATE REASON) my account frozen.
After months of trying to satisfy PayPal's stupid requirements, I gave up and lost $700.
Alas, I am not the only one who has been screwed royally by Ebay/PayPal, there are thousands of others.
Beware all, who insist on selling on Ebay.
Also, even those who purchase using Ebay (which I admit I sometimes, still do) they CHEAT YOU by holding the float for 3-4 business days from the time your card is debited until the time they "clear the sale."
Likewise, if you get a rebate they do exactly the same thing.
PayPal, not being a bank have no external controls and can get away with this scam.
Multiply this times millions of transactions a year, and pretty soon, you talking about real $$$$.
Last but not least, one must necessarily conclude that there is a conflict of interest (AND PURE GREED) in that Ebay will not allow any other means of purchase other than the use of PayPal
BE CAREFULL ALL--BE VERY CAREFUL!!!
Although I am from CA I admire this man and his sentiments.Under our constitution he does have the right to refuse service to anyone. F*** ebay and the horse they rode in on.
Let me guess, these emails are signed "Kwame Kilpatrick"?
I wonder if he has ever been to California?Probably not. The pinhead probably only reads what other numbskulls who've never been to California say about Californians on FreeRepublic.
There are more conservatives in CA than any other state. More Californians donate to FR than any other state. To deny selling his wares to any Californian because of the actions of a few knucklehead liberals is idiotic.
This guys heart may be in the right place but his head is definitely up some crevice.
Sure Ebay is within their rights.
But Ebay is being hypocritical in banning this man.
There are literally tens of thousands of auctions every day on Ebay that have geographical restrictions on purchasers.
“Lower 48 only”
“Will not ship to Romania, Russia” ETC
Why target one man who will not allow US flags to go to places where our flag may not be treated with dignity, while not enforce the same standard on the multitude of other Ebayers with similar restrictions.
Hello,
I would like to take the time to thank those people out there that support my beliefs about the U.S. flag. I also would like explain what some of you do not know. EBay makes up a lot of their rules as they go along and what rules they do have are open to interpretation by whomever in trust and safety is on duty at the time. At least a 3rd or more of all eBay auctions have some type of buyer restriction and eBay itself allows sellers to set buyer restrictions. For example, the number of non paying complaints or feedback score and location. Many auctions state that an item is not for sale outside the main 48 states. I offer most of my items for sale worldwide.
For more than 5 years I have been selling vintage and antique flags on eBay restricting their sale to certain locations and have never had a problem. Let me state this I was told a while back by my senior account manager at eBay and I quote “You can state in your listings that items were not for sale in certain areas and the reason for that was there is a high amount of fraud being perpetrated in some countries and since eBay’s site is not set up to exclude shipment to some countries it need only be stated in the listing.” I would also like to state in this can be read in the usps shipping regulation book. Each country has different items that can not be imported to their countries. In Italy for example I can not ship edged weapons, clocks, jewelry and clothing. I can ship these items to almost every other country. Seeing I sell most items worldwide eBay’s system does not allow me to exclude Italy I can only state in the listing that these items are not for sale in Italy. Now does that mean those auctions should be ended as well? My surname is Italian does this mean I’m prejudice? Does not eBay want to cater to a worldwide audience?
In the past I have had auctions pulled because some kid at eBay’s trust and safety misinterpreted the rules. Last year this was the case when I had close to 500 auctions deleted by eBay in one day closing me down, this after I had the go ahead from someone at eBay to list an item that I questioned. The loss to me was over 30k in sales and a weeks worth of lost work. EBay did send me an email apologizing for their error.
The flag auctions were pulled because a few people complained. When I got the call from eBay’s trust & safety asking why I would not sell to California, France or the Middle East I explained why and that it was my right not to sell this item to them. EBay gave me the choice edit the auctions or have them ended. I chose the later. When I asked where it was stated in eBay’s rules that I can not restrict by location the person in trust and safety could not answer me. The reason is there is no such rule. They ended the auctions under 3 different rules and not one of them states that you can not restrict selling an item by location!
This is just another way in which eBay is trying to control the people who sell on their site. Just like a seller can no longer say anything negative about a buyer in the feedback forum no mater how true it is. It is my right as an American to refuse to sell my flags to someone in California. Why would they care, they burn them, they ban them from front yards, they ban them in public schools. My flag auctions being ended is just another assault on old glory herself. I did abide by their rules! As for France and the Middle East you need not be a rocket scientist as for why. And yes I did live there once.
Mark E. Albino Sr.
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