Posted on 08/10/2008 6:00:49 PM PDT by TheDon
The pastor of the Set Free motorcycle ministry, out of jail on $50,000 bail, spoke about his arrest to more than 100 of his parishioners over the weekend.
Pastor Phillip Aguilar, 60, founder of the Set Free church, told the congregation he was not angry about 150 police officers raiding his properties on Wednesday. Officers from police departments throughout Orange County got warrants to search and seize properties from several Set Free homes.
He said he knows the image his organization portrays -- one of heavily tattooed motorcyclists who drive fancy bikes and cars -- played a role in how officers reacted to the barroom brawl in which he and six other members of the church were arrested on attempted murder charges.
...
A crew of the Set Free Soldiers is accused of fighting with members of the Hells Angels at Blackies by the Sea in Newport Beach late last month. The attempted murder charge against Aguilar was dropped, and prosecutors have charged him and two other members with weapons violations and street terrorism.
...
Thirty years ago, Aguilar was addicted to heroin. He also has spent time in jail for child abuse.
Aguilar now preaches to a mix of recovering drug addicts like Jeremy and Jennifer Gaither on Saturday nights in the backyard of one of his properties.
Aguilar said during the raid last week, a legally-registered pistol was discovered in his son's, Phillip Aguilar Jr., room. He hopes once the gun is explained in court, charges will be dropped.
"When I heard that they took all the cars, and they took all the motorcycles – I thought none of that really matters,'' Aguilar said of the vehicles seized by authorities. "What really matters is seeing the people you love."
(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...
Oh I see, Bentleys and a pastor. he must be guilty eh?
“Christian bikers glad pastor is out of jail “
- - -
I think that just about anybody anywhere
would be glad their pastor was out of jail.
Very hard to reconcile guys supposedly in recovery, at Blackie’s bar.
Blackies is a hard drinking establishment, not a church and not a sober living place.
Ergo these guys were looking for trouble, and got it.
"Go ahead punk, make my daily bread!"
> Ergo these guys were looking for trouble, and got it.
Or maybe they were following Christ’s example and preaching to sinners by going to where the sinners are.
No point preaching to the converted...
I personally know people here is Southeast Texas who went to the Set Free Drug Program in CA and totally got off of drugs; and, they are still drug free today.
It’s really difficult for anyone to tell the complete story on Phil and his cronies.
How many other ministries has he sued now?
TBN owns some of the sober living homes - there’s weird entanglements there (or used to be.)
The comments on the OCRegister this week have been from one extreme to the other on whether he’s still a decent guy or if he’s gone back to his darker roots.
I first -literally ran into — Set Free, at Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa - around 20 years ago, they were “guarding” against skinheads because there of a threat against a celebration of Israel. They were intimidating then, but they look creepy now.
As far as I can tell Christ didn't go to where the sinners were. Rather, they came to him:
Mar 2:15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him.
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.
This is a far different situation than so called Christian going to a bar. IMO, they were either going there to party or they were going there to preach to others in the bar about what sinners they were. That's the only reasons I can think of about why a fight would break out. And the fact that it even became a fight is telling about the character of these so called Christians:
Jas 3:16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
Jas 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
perhaps in this situation you are correct... i don't know... but in general, a fight breaking out may have nothing to do with the characer of any Christian... my husband and i have walked into a bar numerous times to visit his brother who was a bartender... and to visit his father, who frequented the bar... many times that was the only way we would get a chance to talk and visit with them...
> As far as I can tell Christ didn’t go to where the sinners were.
I don’t think I can agree with you there:
He certainly went to Samaria, and went to the well where the Samaritan woman was.
He was also present at the place where the woman taken in adultery was — I can hardly imagine that she came to him.
And He certainly went to Zacchaeus’ house for dinner — and he was a publican.
And He certainly went and found St Peter, St James, St John and St Andrew and St Matthew — rough-and-ready fishermen and a tax collector, sinners all.
Indeed, He was accused by the Pharisees of eating and drinking with sinners. But as He observed, He came to call sinners to repentance, not the righteous.
Nope. Christ went to where the sinners were. So did St Peter. So did St Paul. So did they all. And so should all Christians do likewise.
There’s no point preaching to the converted, nor is there any future in waiting for sinners to come to you.
Every large biker event [both “nice” *and* “nasty”] I’ve ever gone to has had at least one Christian MC in attendance.
They held church services and invited *all* to attend.
Just because they’re Christians doesn’t mean they aren’t still bikers and they’re not very likely to stand around and let somebody stomp them.
Barring hard evidence to the contrary, your guess is mine, also.
The do evangelize....and usually, they’re found in the best [or worst, depending on your perspective] place possible place for doing so.
The Set Free people did the rock work on our
“Flintstone” pool back in ‘92. They were wonderful
and skilled and a pleasure. Not one negative.
They were above reproach.
Now about Phil Aguilar... I don’t know. I’ve
heard him teach. So what if he thinks he’s
Paul and Jan Crouch - Liberace.
Suspect the converted need a lot of preaching too. To keep them on the "straight and narrow."
> Just because they’re Christians doesn’t mean they aren’t still bikers and they’re not very likely to stand around and let somebody stomp them.
It’s true. We (the Guardian Angels in New Zealand) often patrol events where one such group, “The Redeemed”, are in attendance.
They are all hard-core bikers, fully patched-up, devout Christians, and all formerly from criminal MC gangs. A rough-and-ready bunch, generally very well behaved friendly guys.
Beautiful Harley Davidsons and custom-built choppers. But I wouldn’t want to get them riled, not for all the tea in China! Even the Bad Guys seem to leave them alone.
“This is a far different situation than so called Christian going to a bar. IMO, they were either going there to party”
I’m a Christian.
I go into bars.
Hubby has a beer and a burger while I listen to the bar bands while I drink my bottled water quite contentedly.
In years past, occasional fights broke out that involved our friends and we stood with them.
Am I going to Hell?
I had a couple guys from setfree build a fence for me. The guy I met was on probation at the time. I didn’t spend much time on what he did. Basically getting drunk and doing stupid things. He really knew what it was to be setfree. There are several groups related to setfree. I am not sure how connected they are.
Please adopt me.
I eat very little and take up even less space.
I’m house-trained, don’t claw the furniture, am good with children and I only bite when provoked.
;]
“Abusive Churches: A view from within”
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/704-abusive-churches-a-view-from-within
Yes and no. He didn't make a special trip to Samaria, but did stop there on his way to Galilee:
Joh 4:3 He left Judea, and departed again into Galilee.
Joh 4:4 And he must needs go through Samaria.
Joh 4:5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave to his son Joseph.
Joh 4:6 Now Jacob's well was there. Jesus therefore, being wearied with his journey, sat thus on the well: and it was about the sixth hour.
But even so, a well isn't a biker bar.
He was also present at the place where the woman taken in adultery was — I can hardly imagine that she came to him.
She did come to him, albeit against her will:
Joh 8:2 And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them.
Joh 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Joh 8:4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
And He certainly went to Zacchaeus’ house for dinner — and he was a publican.
Well, yes, but he was a righteous man:
Luk 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
Luk 19:9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
And He certainly went and found St Peter, St James, St John and St Andrew and St Matthew — rough-and-ready fishermen and a tax collector, sinners all.
Well sure, everyone is a sinner. But being out in the world guarantees that we run into people of all kinds. But he didn't make a special trip to the Judean equivalent of a biker bar to find converts. Converts were drawn to him.
There’s no point preaching to the converted, nor is there any future in waiting for sinners to come to you.
Yeah, but going into a place where sinners are engaging in their favorites sin and being confrontational enough to cause and participate in fight isn't Christian behavior. And He certainly went and found St Peter, St James, St John and St Andrew and St Matthew — rough-and-ready fishermen and a tax collector, sinners all. Indeed, He was accused by the Pharisees of eating and drinking with sinners. But as He observed, He came to call sinners to repentance, not the righteous. Nope. Christ went to where the sinners were. So did St Peter. So did St Paul. So did they all. And so should all Christians do likewise. There’s no point preaching to the converted, nor is there any future in waiting for sinners to come to you.
(grin!)
Should I start packing, then?
How will I ship the Harley?
[bigger grin!]
Beats me. But if you call yourself a Christian and are involved in bar fights on a regular basis then I would say some self examination would be in order.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Coming soon to something near you... Soon we will have enough laws with asset forfeiture that you won't want anything especially nice, so it won't catch the eye of anyone who can use the law to take it from you.
Live simply, 'comrade' so you do not catch the eye of the poletzi...
Probably a question best answered by your priest and not an anonymous Freeper. 8^)
Not so! You quoted the passage yourself:
>> > Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Operative word being "seek". To seek something is to go out looking for it. Not hang around waiting for it to stumble into you.
> Yeah, but going into a place where sinners are engaging in their favorites sin and being confrontational enough to cause and participate in fight isn't Christian behavior.
And so Jesus was wrong to go into the Temple and drive out the moneychangers? Come on, that's sophistry!
Methinks you judge these Christian Bikers too harshly. You weren't there, so you have no idea what they were doing at the biker bar or why they were there. The Christian thing to do would be to give them the benefit of the doubt in the absence of better facts.
Probably a question best answered by your priest and not an anonymous Freeper. 8^)
Sorry. I posted to the wrong Freeper.;^p
FRiend, one need not start the fight to be in one.
If you, as a Christian, wish to avoid all venues where the need for self-defense may arise, then reach gently out to the choir.
God has a place and purpose for all, and even those who are already faithful need counsel as well.
“and are involved in bar fights on a regular basis”
Please submit a quote wherein I said “regular”.
[Would you stand idly by and let a smaller, harmless friend be stomped by a larger bully? Oh, never mind. Don’t even bother answering that.]
BTW, you’re in violation of the following right ~now~:
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
Some self examination might be in order.
> Beats me. But if you call yourself a Christian and are involved in bar fights on a regular basis then I would say some self examination would be in order.
I’m a Christian and a Guardian Angel. I break up lots of bar fights on a regular basis. I don’t turn the other cheek if someone hits me: instead I heave them head-first out the door and warn them to never do that again. And I go to Church on Sunday with a great big angelic grin on my face, having slept the sleep of the Righteous the night before and with the heart of the Redeemed pumping in my chest. And after the service, my Immortal Soul having been duly refreshed, I go out and do it all again. Week in, week out.
What say you to that?
LOL!
God’s already answered me on that score so it was just sarcastic rhetoric.....:)
Actually, just coming *here* was equivalent to going to the nastiest biker bar, ever, as far as Jesus was concerned.
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1801.htm
Oh, rats.
Now you can’t adopt me because Dougie says you’re going to Hell.
Bummer.
*sigh*
I guess I’ll just go unpack, now......:[
;D
On many levels.....LOL
Now I’ll be humming “Amazing Grace” all night.
;]
> Actually, just coming *here* was equivalent to going to the nastiest biker bar, ever, as far as Jesus was concerned.
(chuckle!) That’s for real!
I’ve found biker bars to be well-behaved, with polite, courteous and hospitable patrons, some of whom are — do doubt — armed to the teeth.
It’s the karaoke bars and dance clubs that give me the most grief, on balance... college punks hardly old enough to shave, let alone drink. Go figure!
(nice bike, BTW)
> Now you can’t adopt me because Dougie says you’re going to Hell.
(grin!) I’ve never been to Hell, but I’ve been to Knox, North Dakota which was close enough for me!
Converts are drawn to Christ:
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Christ does seek those who are his, but he didn't or doesn't indiscriminately pick people out of the blue.
Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.
God calls many, but those who are chosen by God.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
And so Jesus was wrong to go into the Temple and drive out the moneychangers? Come on, that's sophistry!
That's a deeper story than on the surface. The temple, a holy place, was being used, defiled, for commerce. Religion was being exploited for money. It's not an equivalent situation at all.
Methinks you judge these Christian Bikers too harshly. You weren't there, so you have no idea what they were doing at the biker bar or why they were there. The Christian thing to do would be to give them the benefit of the doubt in the absence of better facts.
You're right, I don't know their side of the story other than that they were in a fight in a biker bar and were arrested after stabbing two Hell's Angels'. But that should be enough to dispel any discerning Christian about their spiritual state.
And if this is regular behavior then the Christian thing to do is:
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
In other words, if someone calls themself a Christian and engages in non-Christian behavior then other Christians aren't, according to Paul, supposed to treat them like fellow Christians.
Do you feel it's your Christian duty to stop people from fighting in bars?
You said "occasional" fights. Sorry, but putting yourself into situations where you get into even "occasional" fights doesn't seem like a wise thing. If I had a Christian brother who occasionally got into fights at bars I would console them to stay out of bars and stop fighting.
[Would you stand idly by and let a smaller, harmless friend be stomped by a larger bully? Oh, never mind. Don’t even bother answering that.]
I will answer that. Of course I wouldn't. But I also wouldn't allow my friend to get so far into a situation that the only recourse was to be stomped by a large bully.
BTW, you’re in violation of the following right ~now~: Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. Some self examination might be in order.
Having these qualities does in no way disqualify one from carrying out the following:
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
There's a difference between going out into the world and going into places where you willingly submit yourself to the temptations that are present there. A biker bar where people are drinking and itching to fight is a terrible place to be if you're tempted by drinking or fighting.
“It’s the karaoke bars and dance clubs that give me the most grief, on balance... college punks hardly old enough to shave, let alone drink. Go figure!”
You took the thoughts right outta my head.
[no wonder I was feeling so blank there for a minute]...LOL
Thanks...that bike’s my baby....:)
*rimshot!*
Dougie didn't say that at all. Dougie doesn't have the power, authority or discernment to pass judgment on the state of your salvation or your walk with Christ. That will be determined by Christ at his return. And I'm fairly confident, based on scripture, that most will eventually choose to follow him.
Idle curiosity/pop quiz time:
Do you completely abstain from consuming meat and caffeine?
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