Posted on 08/09/2008 11:10:06 PM PDT by neverdem
GORI, Georgia — The conflict between Russia and the former Soviet republic of Georgia moved toward full-scale war on Saturday, as Russia sent warships to land ground troops in the disputed territory of Abkhazia and broadened its bombing campaign across Georgia.
The fighting that had sharply escalated when Georgian forces tried to retake the capital of South Ossetia, a pro-Russian region that won de facto autonomy from Georgia in the early 1990s, appeared to be developing into the worst clashes between Russia and a foreign military since the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979.
Shortly before dawn on Sunday, Georgia’s Interior Ministry said that Russian bombers had begun striking military facilities adjacent to the civilian airport at Tbilisi. The explosions could be heard in the city, said Shota Utiashvili, a ministry official.
He said that Russia had built up large forces in Abkhazia and South Ossetia — breakaway regions that have support from Moscow — including as many as 300 artillery pieces in South Ossetia alone. Russian forces, he said, were also poised just over the border at Larsi, a checkpoint, where they could open a third line of ground attack.
As Russia moved more forces into the region and continued aerial bombing, it appeared determined to occupy both South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
Georgia’s president, Mikheil Saakashvili, said Russia’s ambitions were even more extensive. He declared that Georgia was in a state of war, and said in an interview that Russia was planning to seize ports and an oil pipeline and to overthrow his government.
Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin of Russia left the Olympics in China...
--snip--
Georgian officials said that Russian warplanes had attacked the major Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, operated by British Petroleum, that carries oil to the West from Asia, but that the pipeline had not been struck...
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Slide Show - Russian Bombardment in Georgia
The bear is back. What happened to the wonders of soft power, the new world order and all that jazz?
Comrade Putin still reigns.
Georgia has to settle here if they want to keep a part of their country intact.
Georgia is toast. Obama and the Dems will say this is the Soviets, errrrrr, Russia’s rightful claim.
Bush is responding impotently because he needs Russia to keep pressure on Iran and needs Russian oil to keep gas prices somewhat reasonable. Maybe that whole soft power / new world order stuff wasn't gobbledygook after all.
Here is the “official” Russian order of battle for North Caucasus:
North Caucasus Military District:
20th Guards Motor Rifle Division Volgograd
10th (Mountain) Separate Brigade of Special Designation Molkino, Krasnodar region
22nd Guards Separate Brigade of Special Designation Kovalevka, Aksai, Rostov Oblast
131st Motor Rifle Brigade Maykop
136th Separate Motor Rifle Brigade Dagestan
205th ‘Cossack’ Separate Motor Rifle Brigade Budyonnovsk, Stavropol Oblast
135th Separate Motor Rifle Regiment Prokhladny, Kabardino-Balkaria
Additionally following airborne units are staged within operational range:
7th Airborne Division - Novorossiysk
76th Air Assault Division - Pskov
98th Airborne Division - Ivanovo
106th Airborne Division - Tula
Airforce units in the north Caucasus district:
4th Army of VVS and PVO, North Caucasus Military District
1st Composite Air Division - Krasnodar
559th Bomber Aviation Regiment - Morozovsk - Su-24 in service;
959th Bomber Aviation Regiment - Yeysk - operates the Su-24 and L-39C;
368th Assault Aviation Regiment - Budyonnovsk - Su-25;
461st Assault Aviation Regiment - Krasnodar - Su-25;
960th Assault Aviation Regiment - Primorsko-Akhtarsk - Su-25;
51st Air Defence Corps - Rostov on Don
3rd Fighter Aviation Regiment - Krymskaya, (ex 562nd) - Su-27;
19th Fighter Aviation Regiment - Millerovo - MiG-29;
31st Fighter Aviation Regiment - Zernograd - MiG-29;
SAM Regiments
11th Independent Reconnaissance Air Regiment - Marinovka - operates the Su-24MR;
535th Independent Composite Air Regiment - Rostov on Don - Mi-8, An-12 and An-26 in service;
ex Army Aviation component
55th Independent Helicopter Regiment - Korenovsk - Mi-24, Mi-8, reported to be in line for Mi-28[14]
325th Independent Transport-Combat Helicopter Regiment - Yegorlyskaya - Mi-26, Mi-8;
487th Independent Helicopter Regiment for battle control- Budyonnovsk - Mi-8, Mi-24;
I think there are more smaller batallion sized units stationed there, but they are still marked in to their original districts. They could add up to a division.
I assume this is enough firepower to stop any military in the world...
And here are the airfileds Russia has in the area:
Airfield Military District ICAO Latitude Longitude
Akthubinsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Armavir North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Astrakhan - Ashchuluk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Astrakhan - Privolzhskiy North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Budyonnovsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Kapustin Yar North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Korenovsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Kotelnikovo North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Krasnodar - Aviagorodok 5 North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Krymsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Kushchovskaya North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Marinovka North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Maykop North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Mikhaylovka - Lebyazhe North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Millerovo North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Morozovsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Mozdok North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Novocherkassk 14 North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Primorsko - Akhtarsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Rostov na Donu North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Sochi North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Stavropol North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Taganrog - Tsentralnyy North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Taganrog - Yuzhnyy North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Tikhoretsk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Vladikavkaz North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Volgograd North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Yegorlykskaya North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Yeysk North-Caucasian .. .. .. ..
Zernograd North-Caucasian
Layered air defense umbrellas (even though this may seem as an overkill for Georgia) in the region is crucial for Russia to dissuade any direct NATO military action. The Russian Black Sea Fleet has blockaded all sea transport, and are possibly preparing to enforce an air blockade as well. Game Set Match.
Saakashvili can take to the cellars and forests and fight a guerilla war, or he can accept any offer Russia will propose. “Georgia” will not fight Russia, way too many leaders in Georgia were Soviets once, the FSB has way too many operatives, speculation is Saakashvili is naked and bugged even inside his own command structure at this point. The political opposition in Georgia is not coalescing around the flag, but instead wavering toward puppetting the Russian line, the situation is untenable for Saakashvili, he will surrender within 72 hours, if not 24.
Putin’s regime reminds everybody of Nazi Germany, lashing out and conquering its neighbors.
I wonder who’ll win in this lopsided contest?
I wonder indeed. Anyway, I dont see any point in getting involved in a war started by Sakashvili. Hes teargassed protestors in his own country, arrested opposition members, and when his popularity was in a nosedive, started a war to distract attention.
Great powers dont retreat forever, and it was a bit much to imagine Moscow would let its soldiers be killed without punishing retribution.
Sakashvili is on his way out. Either his voters will rid his country of him, or a someone is going to give him a Polonium meal.
I thought President thought Putin was a good guy. What is up with this? Were we kidding ourselves or what? Sometimes it’s just easier to play nice in the short run, but it seems to end up costing more in the long run. This is a good life lesson to all of us. Don’t kiss up to people like Putin, not EVER!!!!
I never have trusted Putin since day one. He was charismatic but he ordered missile attacks on Chechen citizens who were shopping in a market, kissed that boy on the stomach (really bizarre), has been helping out Iran, claimed Russia was islam’s best defender in the world, opposed U.S. missile defense, put the nuclear bombers back in the air, sent nuke bombers towards England / Norway immediately after the polonium-210 murder of the ex-KGB spy (Brits threw out the Russian ambassador just before those things), has vowed to target the Ukraine and Europe with nuclear missiles, and has had a lot of journalists who were critical have “accidents” including one shot (but not killed) after appearing on TV right here in the USA.
Yeah ....
Ya I hope Ivan keeps pressure on Tehran they seem like they are about to crack any minute now.
RussianToday just said that there are some reports that the Roki tunnel has been collapsed and blown up. Of course then they reported that the Russian Army has said it was false.
Russian TV reporting that the Russian blockade is in place.
And yes ... everyone take this with a grain of salt as it is RussiaToday.
right grain of salt but still...whoa
Talking about how useless the UN is.
Yes, what was Georgia thinking when they moved troops into South Osesstia?
If it is, thats actually bad news for the russians because that means they can’t move anymore armor in and what they currently have in Georgia can’t get back. That tunnel is the only way north into Russia from that country during the winter.
But this might just be false rumors being planeted by Russia to provoke a reaction out of Georgia or will try to claim that Georgia blew it up.
Anything reported by the russian news media is all being feed by the Kremlin.
Reagan is rolling in his grave right now.
Georgian men are being detained for possible conscription and Russian passport holders are being jailed as well.
Understood ... but it is pretty much all we're getting at this hour.
that they were trying to protect their borders and citizens from a foreign invader occupying a large portion of their country?
Russia has been trying desperately to block any free press from reporting from the region, but the video footage of russian planes bombing the civilian city of Gori that is not in South Ossetia that came out today was all anyone needed to see to understand what Russia is doing.
This isn’t about South Ossetia. This is about retaking the entire country, installing a pro-Kremlin puppet government, and gaining control of the oil pipelines.
Some of the images would NEVER make it on US networks that's for certain. Saw some pretty gruesome shots of the aftermath of battles.
Apparently they thought the Russian were somewhat civilized and that they would respect international borders. Now the Georgians and the rest of the world knows the truth. Hopefully, this will also point out to the rest of the world why waiting for diplomacy to work within Iran is ludicrous.
Which means Azerbaijan and Armenia are next. The size of the force the Russians are sending into Georgia portrays the real possibility that they have more then just Georgia on their minds. The Russians could be linked up with Iran within a few weeks. At that point, any attack on Iran is also an attack on Russia. They have also entered a mutual defense pact. In the mean time, we appear to have a government (US and EU) that is moving at the speed of molasses.
thx for that feed. We deal with enough BS from the MSM here in the US on a regular basis so no prob reading between the lines.
Didn’t look today but yesterday I saw some of the Georgian websites were getting slammed with a botnet..some getting hit with smaller mid range DDOS...PHP hijinks..some got rooted, etc.
Thanks for the Russki order of battle. Do you know if they are comparable to U.S. Army cavalry regiments and task organized brigades, which have about the same number of personnel and maneuver elements, with slight variation, for all intents and purposes? How about their Air Force regiments, are they comparable to US Air Force squadrons or wings?
Sorry, Russian military is definitely not my area of knowledge, i was copying and pasting from a link I got to a website that is weak competitor to Janes, but I didn’t bookmark it.
The numbers I’ve read,
Georgia claims 10,000 Russians are now in Georgia and the disputed regions.
The Russians claimed 2500, then 3200, then 4500 soldiers in the disputed regions and buffer zone around the disputed Oblasts.
On any given day, Russia has about 100,000 military personnel within a day’s drive of Georgia’s border crossings.
Even before the buildup that started in April, the Russians had 1800 Air Force personnel on the ground in the border region with Georgia. Those facilities alone could support enough flown in air wings to do a shock and awe campaign on Tblisi like what was done repeatedly to Grozny.
And imho, The more I’ve read today, the more I’m under the impression that Saakashvili is either a hotheaded idiot, or his closest advisors are either utterly incompetent or double agents on the FSB payrolls. Most online forum participants claiming to be Georgians, Armenians and Azerbaijanis are all under the impression that Saakashvili is a loose cannon and a hotheaded retard who was escalated well above his aptitude by the Bush administration and CIA during the Rose coup.
Word is Russian ships are now moving into postion to blockade Georgia from the black sea, and over 10,000 russian troops are already moving into South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
There is absolutely no coincidence that this all happened on the day the olympics started. Russia wanted to catch the world offguard and heavily concentrated on something else.
Gee, it would be as if Russia had planned this from the begining and all the troops, tanks, planes, and ships were all there ready to be unleased when Putin said so. I mean, in 24 hours, the russians have mobilized and already moving into a country at lightening speed. The kind of mobilization that would normally take days to weeks to start up.
Russia out of Georgia now. Imperialist Russian occupiers of a sovereign nation. This is another Afghanistan! The Russians are in a quagmire! No more war for oil! Putin lied, comrades died. The Russians didn’t have a coalition, where is the outrage? The UN didn’t approve this war. Why did Putin rush to war? These Neo-coms are all warmongers. Make your paper-mache heads of Putin tonight and let’s take to the streets tomorrow! Notify International Answer and all the other protesters for peace!
Now let’s all hold our breath while we wait to hear any of the above directed towards the Russians.
They must be pissed that some world press ended up around Gori, a civilian city in Georgia, and filmed Russian planes bombing apartment buildings.
I'm sure the Russians you won't be seeing this on the evening news. These are pics of what the russian bombers did to Gori.
Geez... and we had been led to believe that
Russia is a dying civilization with a nonsustaining birth rate.
Russian men have the lowest life expectancy (59) among Caucasians.
Alcoholism is more rampant now than under communism.
Russian women have the highest abortion rate (avg 7) in the world.
Siberia is being depopulated of Russians as the Chinese move in.
The military doesn’t even get paid on a regular basis.
Russia produces few capital goods, only exploits natural resources like any other Third World entity.
So where in the H*LL do the Russians get all these troops, tanks, and tactical aircraft!!?
If Russia, or Putin more precisely, were smart, they’d just sit back and reap the benefits of all the oil money.
But, no ... gotta have a war over South Osettia ...
South Ossetia
“So where in the H*LL do the Russians get all these troops, tanks, and tactical aircraft!!?”
They make billions and billions on oil and natural gas exports. With enough money they can rebuild their military infrastructure. We are contributing to the strengthening of our adversaries around the world by our oil dependence.
The conflict is that I'm seeing this from the perspective of 1939 and the cold war tactics in the decades that followed.
Hell, we were still in the depression then.
Not in such great shape on the civilian front right now due to democrat anti-family/anti-business policy.
Yet history teaches us what will happen if we don't respond.
This is so screwed, amigo...
Sure looks like a classic pincers movement to me.
That may have been the Georgians' very savvy way of preventing any further penetration of their country by the Russians.
Wake up...there is nothing to be trusted about this conflict from the internet or the Russian/US Media.
It’s just a big disinformation cesspool!
watch what the major powers do.
WildcatClan,
Well come on, we both know that the activist fringe left isn’t going to do this. We need to do this ourselves. Where’s Protest Warrior at? I’m serious. We need to start making some noise. The people supporting this madness don’t seem to have a problem doing so.
Write to your congressmen (for what its worth). Write letters to the editor for your local and state newspapers. Get the word out. Get into the streets. If people are asleep to this problem, it’s time to wake them up.
Georgia better get armed to the teeth soon. They’re going to need Javelin missiles and every man-portable weapon system that we make. Crazy Ivan & Friends don’t like to play nice.
Are you suggesting the USA get involved or a NATO nation - who is the “we” you write about?
Bingo! Good to see someone thinking clearly out there.
This highlights AGAIN why we should be using all available domestic sources of oil and gas, OCS and ANWR, and building nuclear power plants as quickly as possible. The DemoSocialists, Pelosi, Obama, Kennedy, Reid, et cetera, ad nauseum, are out of touch with reality. There are probably more than 250 million gasoline or diesel powered vehicles in the U.S., so we are going to need more oil for years to come. I also like Boone Pickens’ ideas - see www.pickensplan.com
All of the equipment is Soviet vintage. Russia’s military spending goes to sustain what they have and not to add more, because they cannot afford to.
Production rates for the T-90S in Russian service is only about 20 per year. Back in the day, it would have been closer to 1000.
In 20 to 30 years, almost all of it will obsolescent (if it isn’t already) or too worn down to be of any use. The Russian military machine is living on borrowed time.
Yeah...I think the Europeans are collectively soiling themselves. Worse, if we don’t do something (and that something is limited militarily by the fact we’re up to our necks dealing with the ME right now, has to be done, but we are busy), then I don’t think our new Eastern European allies are going to think much of our word with regards to Russia. Putin is a sharp cookie..evil, but sharp.
I think the Georgians will soon surrender because besides the obvious issue of many Georgians still prefer to be allied with Russia for economic stability reasons, they need the access to the technological expertise of Russian petroleum companies like Gazprom and Lukoil (both of which have gotten access to modern Western petroleum production technology since the early 1990’s) to modernize the Baku petroleum field.
I would agree but in this age of US$115/barrel oil, the Russians now have the money to start up their military factories again to modernize their increasingly-obsolete military.
I tried to watch RT, but it looks like a Soviet CNN...
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