....................!!!
Posted on 08/04/2008 4:01:58 PM PDT by flyfree
A secret deal between Britain and the notorious al-Mahdi militia prevented British Forces from coming to the aid of their US and Iraqi allies for nearly a week during the battle for Basra this year, The Times has learnt.
Four thousand British troops – including elements of the SAS and an entire mechanised brigade – watched from the sidelines for six days because of an “accommodation” with the Iranian-backed group, according to American and Iraqi officers who took part in the assault.
US Marines and soldiers had to be rushed in to fill the void, fighting bitter street battles and facing mortar fire, rockets and roadside bombs with their Iraqi counterparts.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
Shame, shame, shame!
....................!!!
We won’t hurt you, so you won’t hurt us, right?
WOW!
So nothing to do with letting the Iraqi forces take responsibility? This is their country - let them take control of local situations.
Neville Chamberlain is evidently alive and well.
Did you even read the article?
“US Marines and soldiers had to be rushed in to fill the void”....
Our wimpy allies backstabbed us, for their own political purposes and you think this is AOK...oh, brother.
As much as I respect the British as soldiers-- their political leaders and high command are paltroons. They have done a deal with the devil to keep the looney British Left placated--and disgraced their honor.
This is the kind of crap the the Lord Messiah Obama will do for us...
In any case, the lesson to the U.S. is; “don't rely on ‘allies’”.
For Iraqis’ it is; “you can depend on the US when strong leaders are at the helm.”
My first thought too. Euroweenies indeed.
Go sit on the bench with the British cowards.
Exactly. If people are not up to the task at hand, then they should GFO and let the men handle it.
That one stood out, but so did the ‘holiday’.
‘The British were partly handicapped because their commander, Major-General Barney White-Spunner, was away on a skiing holiday when the attack began. When Brigadier Julian Free, his deputy, arrived to discuss the situation with Mr Maliki at the presidential palace in Basra, he was made to wait outside.
He said: “Without the support of the Americans we would not have accomplished the mission because the British Forces had done nothing there. I do not trust the British Forces. They did not want to lose any soldiers for the mission.”
I can't say I blame them.
I have very high regard for the British soldiers, but this and the Iranian hostage fiasco have done great damage to their reputation.
Blame Gordon Brown, and Des Browne.
Defense is so important to Gordon Brown that he made Des Browne both Secretary of State* for Defence AND Secretary of State for Scotland. In other words, the UK currently has a part time defense minister!
Reason # 4265 that Labour is going to get thrashed in the next election.
*Most cabinet ministers in the UK are styled Secretary of State for “x”. A few have other titles.
So nothing to do with letting the Iraqi forces take responsibility? This is their country - let them take control of local situations.
Since when did the United States Marine Corps become the Iraqi Marine Corps?
The Brits could have aided their American allies but they did NOT because they had cut a protection deal with the enemy.
We are not in Iraq just to establish "Democracy". We have vital national interests there.
Iraq sits right smack in the middle of the Persian Gulf geographic region that contain 70% of the World's known oil reserves. It is in our vital strategic interests not to allow Iraq to fall under the control of Iranian-backed religious fanatics.
Sitting on your arse and allowing the Iraq War to be won or lost based on the performance of the Iraqi Army is as idiotic as allowing D-Day to be won or lost based on the performance of the Free Resistance.
The British, not to mention the rest of Europe, also have a vital strategic interest in not allowing 70% of the World's known oil reserves to fall under the military control of Islamist fanatics.
However, it is much easier to allow their American "friends" to protect their vital interests for them with a minimum of British blood.
"Britain has no permanent friends, she only has permanent interests." ...... Former British Prime Minister Lord Palmerston
Being in both Iraq and Afghanistan keeps Achmed in a dinner jacket and the mullahs nervous.
This is what I call honest to goodness Brit bashing. Get in here and tell us why we shouldn’t continue to continually lower our opinion of what was once a great country.
Down with Brown, bring forth the Tories.
Yep. Time to put our shoulders into it, boys. We’re all alone in the world.
Good. No baggage to weigh us down.
The US has been Brown-bagged in Iraq.
I’m sorry, but we couldn’t depend on them in North Korea because of the $$ invested in the railroads. We couldn’t depend on them after D-Day, because of that pompous a$$ Montgomery AND we still can’t depend on them.
If I have offended our former masters, tough.
Obviously there are still a few old time Brits remaining, sadly too few.
Sorry, but I think when the story of this war is written, truthfully (if ever), you'll have to add Blair.
Of course this is the same ally that gave up to a few Iranians in dingys a couple of years ago.
Of interest PING!
From what I understand from various English friends, most Tories would be called liberals in the US.
England is lost. Write it off.
I’m not happy about this one bit.
What I do find refreshing is that some of the British brass are quite frank about what a mistake this was, and that they disagree with the British ranks in Iraq that screwed up.
I would suspect that policy will be redrafted by the British to make sure this doesn’t happen again.
As others have said, I have grave concerns for Britain these days. Clear headed thinking seems to have vanished from Europe. And the really bad thing is that they think they are the enlightened ones.
Sheesh!
MEGA embarrasing
actually this is humiliating to the British military.
It scare the crap out of me as to what kind of decisions the socialists running for CinC would make.
properly trained by US, the Iraqi forces are now doing a great job taking control of their own situations. Don't knock them!
If this story is true (which I doubt), the Brits have a lot to answer for. We have bailed them out too many times to get this kind of treatment.
As a bit of an Anglophile, it pains me to say you are right. This however is nothing new.
Therefore, I will not support one drop of American blood being shed for Europe ever again. No matter what the circumstance. Europe will soon be headed for another war, they always are. The Brits will disrespect us until that time they need us to bail them out which we have done, not just for them but because it was in our interest to defend Western civilization. It's their turn to get their heads out of their butts and realize the situation. It's more 1938 than 2008.
Who can ever forget the weak manner in which the British “Navy” dealt with the Iranian cigarette boats.
The British have morphed into the French?
First, cowardice is an unworthy accusation and should be dropped. No one who has ever met British troops could take it seriously. Second, the operation was sprung on everybody, I suspect largely out of Maliki's concern for security within his own forces and potential leakage. The U.S. was scrambling a bit to catch up with the whole thing too.
It may well be that there was a certain break in continuity within British area command due to the absence of its commander and Iraqi suspicion about how effectively the chain of command would be followed down - certainly making the deputy cool his heels outside Maliki's office argues a certain impatience. Whether justified or not I haven't the facts to judge.
The crux of the matter, and the focus of the criticism, it seems to me, lies on a tactic that failed due to application in an area where it couldn't work. That is the negotiations with local militias that had the Brits commit to staying out of the area of operation. That, it seems fairly evident, was not the correct call for the circumstance.
During the early stages of the occupation there was much talk, even on a professional level, that perhaps the U.S. was failing to avail itself of British experience in counterinsurgency operations hard-earned in Northern Ireland. And at the time our own performance in that arena was less than stellar, it must be admitted. However, this agreement with the militias, modeled on successful precedents in Northern Ireland, left the British (and their allies) at a disadvantage in another war, another tactical situation, another cultural understanding.
It is a cliche that unsuccessful generals fight the last war and successful generals the one at hand. There is a grain of truth in it, however, and this incident illustrates that vividly in the searchlight of the British media and the reddened faces of men who would have done more had they been allowed.
Now enough talk of cowardice, defeat, betrayal. This was nothing of the sort, it was a blunder. That's war.
The joys of a socialist government....
I would hate for the British to look at the Dems in this country (50% of us) and say, ‘those Americans are worthless’.
But they would be right.
If true, this is an utter disgrace, and on behalf of all decent Britons, I apologise to my American friends.
The British soldier is not a coward.
The British people are not cowards.
Those who run Britain are, I am afraid.
Oh cheers.
So our sacrifices in NW Europe are worthless because you dont rate ONE general?. And what about the other theatres of war in ww2?.
And we have fought shoulder to shoulder and DIED with you in Korea, the Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan.
Oh and btw, it was British troops who covered your rear literally as you took Fallujah.And the Black Watch suffered heavy casualties to do so.On American request.
And it was British Royal Marines on American request in 2002 who took on the Taliban in Op Snipe when your 10th Mountain Div COULDNT do the job!.
I know you are angry, but blame the top brass, NOT the soldiers and officers on the ground and in thr air.
Ah yes Northern Ireland, happy days avoiding bombs and bullets bought with money raised in the bars of New York and Boston they were in the days before America joined the War on Terror and was quite happy to invite Gerry and his pals to dine and the White House and lead the St Paddys Day parade and wouldn’t extradite terrorists back to the UK as they would get a fair trail.
Allies indeed!
More common sense in this post than one normally encounters in a month of Sundays when US Freepers are commenting on the British. Many thanks.
The 10th mnt division is army not marines. The USMC > royal marines period. Not to mention Navy,Seals and Delta > SAS. Enjoy your brussels masters.
>>I know you are angry, but blame the top brass, NOT the soldiers and officers on the ground and in thr air.
No disrespect to the gallant foot soldiers who did the dying. I WAS taking issue with those who made the decisions and let some of of those men die needlessly.
Semper fi - and St. George
I almost wish you hadn’t pinged me into this thread! ;)
Everyone has already made up their minds, and have been waiting for just this chance to lay into us, for issues that don’t relate to the story. I doubt I’m going to be able to disuade rabid anti-British sentiment on this thread, but I appreciate your Ping, and keeping me in the loop.
I’m not happy with whats gone on, but in the circumstances, pragmatism perhaps was the better course of action. After all, the US boys and girls can leave Basra after raising pretty hell, our lads have to stick around for the long haul and work with everyone. And some of these people would certainly not have been ‘on-side’ if we had acted differently.
I’m going to address the thread as a whole, and see how it goes!!! ;)
Did I say they were Marines?.
I am well aware they are army.
As a former Para, I know the sp. forces equivalents.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.