Posted on 07/25/2008 2:46:56 AM PDT by robertvance
While Mao’s body has been amazingly preserved since his death in 1976, it seems that his spirit has not survived the test of time. He may lie in eternal peace inside his Mausoleum but the world around him has changed considerably; China is no longer the gray and drab country that it was during Mao’s time. It is now a place where people can dream and then go out and make that dream come true. It is not like the old days. People other than just high government officials can drive cars. Chinese people can do business and store up wealth for themselves. Peasants can go to the university now; finding food to eat is no longer such a grave concern. Just around the corner from where Chairman Mao lies in State, the American restaurant chain McDonald’s is full of Chinese people enjoying greasy food and a cool environment. Inside homes, people can watch Western movies on DVD and even occasionally on state owned television. The world is just a mouse click away for the millions of Chinese people who have access to the Internet. Friends and family are no longer afraid of discussing politics with each other. It is even acceptable to criticize the government behind closed doors. All this is happening as Chairman Mao sleeps peacefully at Tiananmen Square. If only he knew.
(Excerpt) Read more at teachabroadchina.com ...
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
Internet content is censored. Criticize the government behind closed doors? Is that a joke? When they can assemble publicly and criticize openly without the threat of another Tiannanmen Square incident, I'll believe communism is dead there.
Yes now they are National Socialist, Nazis.
You apologize to all those other Nazis, right now! LOL
Yea right.
Socially - Completely Communist
Externally - Economically Capitalist
Internally - Economically Communist
2 out of 3...
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
I’ve been in China since mid-June. Even party members tell me that “Communist” is now just a brand name. China is more capitalistic than Britain, Canada, or just about any other major democracy.
I read with amazement the other day the main op-ed piece in one of China’s government newspapers. The writer stated that the people of China must have the right to engage in civil disobedience as long as they don’t try to overthrow the government.
This is not the China of 20 years ago. Satellite dishes are everywhere and they’re pulling in uncensored TV from Taiwan and other democracies. One party member told me, “Thank God for America bringing capitalism to China.”
Clearly the government still holds great authoritarian control, but the point has come where so many freedom “genies” can’t be put back in the lamp.
“And only a fool or a fellow traveler suggests otherwise. “
This kind of argument just stinks.
> Why China is No Longer a Communist Country
I agree China is not a Communist country; it’s just a corrupt authoritarian one.
There is much more balance on the average China news channel than on MSNBC, without doubt. And now more and more Chinese are able to pull in news channels from Taiwan and the US.
The people who deny this without having looked into the matter are simply living in the past.
I made the same point a few months ago on a thread on the subject of unsafe Chinese imports. Since you are already being called a fool or a fellow traveler, you can imagine the reception. All the same, China isn’t Communist. It has developed into a Robber Baron Capitalist state.
In the LONG run this is good news. This seems to be a necessary transitory stage in the development of a major state into a mature power. Dickens wrote of England’s industrial growing pains, and Sinclair Lewis wrote of the US in the same stage.
The thing is in an increasingly wealthy state, the Robber Baron exploitation and disregard for the welfare and growing power of a growing labor class eventually leads to pushback. Labor unions, consumer safety regulations, and mainly an offset to centralized power.
We already see the first glimmerings of this in China but it’s very early in the process. There are decades yet and many setbacks to go.
What you are describing is fascism. That is, state directed private ownership with a military/nationalistic twist. Communism typically disallows private investment, especially from foreign nationals ie US outsourcing.
“I agree China is not a Communist country; it’s just a corrupt authoritarian one.”
Sadly, this is true. But the latter is one hellofa step better than the former, and I’m willing to bet we’ll see more positive changes over time.
That’s a good point, but one should also consider the relaxation that’s occured in terms of public freedom. And as my favorite president used to say, freedom is infectious.
1. from bondage to spiritual faith;
2. from spiritual faith to great courage;
3. from courage to liberty;
4. from liberty to abundance;
5. from abundance to complacency;
6. from complacency to apathy;
7. from apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage
There's getting to be a cottage industry in preserving the mummies of tinhorn communists. First Lenin, then Stalin, now Mao.
Who cares? They are still murderous scumbags that intend to go to war with us at their earliest possibility. And all the while we are emasculating our military by eliminating capabilities right and left, practically shuttering our Navy, not building new air forces and weapons, etc.
China is filled with murderers and they are our enemy.
So, who cares if they are still commie murderers?
What I would expect from someone living there.
Repeat the party line.
P. S. Did you sell your first born? How did you afford the tax for your second child you kept? Or are you childless as your government nearly forces.
P. P. S. Enjoy it now the Olympics will be over soon enough then protesters will once again be shot and the internet heavily censored once again.
NO.
It’s very communist. They have just learned that controlled capitalism will make the leaders richer.
Check out their one child “program”. Check out the killing of political prisoners for organ transplants. Get a heart there for $250,000.
People who closely read my post will notice I am not defending China. There are still major problems here. I am merely pointing out that the term communist cannot really be applied to China anymore. I like and agree with your term ‘Robber Baron Capitalist State.’
I knew there would be some name calling from people who think that I am suggesting that all is now well in China. There is still alot of changes that need to take place here and I think that especially in this case, patience is needed. China is on the right track....
“Mao’s body has been amazingly preserved”
- - - and he is in Hell.
Right. And you obviously did not bother to look at even one of the 150 other odd posts that I have made about China in which I have criticized the government for bad policies like the one child policy
And what ‘party line’ are you talking about exactly? I wrote that the Chinese government still calls itself the Communist Party...they like the label. Take some time and read my article before you make assumptions about what I am saying.
P.S. As a foreigner living in China, I can have as many children as I want.
China’s one child “program” does not make it a communist country. Nor does the killing of political prisoners for organ transplants.
Kind of sounds like Zimbabwe to me. Is Mugabe a Commie?
I prefer the term Chicap to the term Chicom to describe a large slice of the Chinese population.
The truth is of course neither. The current status is transitional but it seems the old ways are fading in the face of new opportuity.
The transition will take time, something many are not willing to admit, but the process is clearly underway. To rid the last vestiges, men must grow old and die.
A Duck is a Duck whatever you call it.
I am very happy that Nixon began the process that has helped China emerge from being Red China to Communist China. Even happier that China embraces some free market principles.
But there are no elections as with Socialist Countries. The Government maintains a police state mentality they are suspending some enforcement for the Olympics but few doubt this is temporary.
Dictatorships are Communist for the most part. Nasty word but accurate.
Only free elections with real parties will change this. Russia has returned to communism by many accounts, there is only one party allowed there now for all practical reasons. So China is not alone. Zimbawee has also become Communist.
Of course it does.
No democracy would put up with it. Completely against basic human rights that we all feel. Completely devalues life to such an extent it is hardly worth living. Suicides are sky high there because of it. Most girls are aborted or sold into the sex slave trade so parents can have a boy. Men have to buy brides.
China only does the minimum to keep the protest under control.
1. Very major companies (Haier, Lenovo) are OWNED by the Communist Red Chinese government.
2. The government presumes to tell people how many children they can have. If you try to get around it, reactions vary from being physically forced for an abortion and sterilization, to having your family or whole community fined a massive (for them) amount.
3. Catholics and other Christians have to meet state approval, the real Roman Catholic Church does not meet Red Communist Chinese tests because the Pope cannot cede spiritual authority to the Communist Party.
Whatever you want to classify the Red Chinese, they are just as bad as ever. Perhaps worse as they now have economic leverage over the entire world.
The Chinese have found a third way between Capitalism and Communism. With the fall of the Soviet Union they realized that Communism as an economic system is not viable. They formed a hybrid system where the totalitarian state is funded by limited capitalism and by using their vast work force to provide cheap goods to the West. The question remains whether they can keep it under control or if they have a tiger by the tail.
The ruling oligarchy will live in luxury, of course. They deserve it for, among other things, their good intentions, their benevolent rule, taking care of the peasants, etc.
There's nothing new about this. It's as old as history itself.
That's how Julius Caesar came to power--promising everything to the masses. His heirs, the Julian family, and their heirs, the Roman emperors who followed them, stayed in power by providing the masses with bread, circuses, etc. They themselves lived in opulent luxury, of course, as, in their opinions, they deserved to do.
The medieval nobility consisted of warriors, who "protected" everyone else. In return, they extracted anything they wanted--i.e. enslavement of everyone else, viz. the peasantry, including right to have sex with them, to kill them, to exploit them in any way they chose.
Contemporary Leftists have made themselves from the same mold. They promise protection, bread and circuses, welfare, and end to poverty, the establishment of a Marxist state. They also reserve the rights to liberty, the persuit of happiness, and lives of opulence and luxury for themselver--certainly not for the peasantry (that's you and I).
Take Obama, for instance. He makes over $500,000 a year, is a multimillionaire, lives in a multimillion-dollar house. You think he's got that in mind for you and me?????
China may have relaxed it's muscle against the average citizen. In truth, they learned the "carrot and stick" method of governing.
Let them chase the carrot and if they won't perform, then give them the stick.
China's financial foundation may have shifted to a more socialist ideal, but the fact is the state still owns everything, thus they are communist.
Nevermind the human rights abuses, the inability to speak against the political system, openly, etc, etc.
China is communist and you're a frigging moron for not recognizing it, and our government is frigging greedy for not bringing american business back to this country.
I mentioned most of those points in my article, especially regarding the human rights situation. I agree with you that the Chinese government has a long way to go but I still stand by my original point that China is no longer a communist country based on its economic transformation in the past 30 years.
"Dependency" you say? "Never" says I!
Where did I say that China is a democracy? There are a lot of human rights violators out there in the world that we do not label as communists. You don’t have to be communist to be bad.
Here are two articles that I wrote about the one child policy in China.
http://www.teachabroadchina.com/china-one-child-policy-earthquake/
http://www.teachabroadchina.com/girls-one-child-policy/
Believe me...I do not defend the policy in the least bit.
It’s still a strongly socialist country, but more of the nationalist type. Anything you own or do is still subject to state control at the whim of the rulers, which is pretty much the definition of fascism.
What we are seeing is a variation of Lenin's New Economic Policy. The Party is allowing free enterprise in order to create wealth. When there is enough wealth to harvest, the Party will take it and shoot anybody who says anything about it
Troll. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Democrats?
Show me a public assembly criticizing the gov’t without being run over by tanks, and I’ll start to believe you.
I think there have been numerous demonstrations out west in the past couple of months. When they remain peaceful, they get little attention. When they turn violent, they get reported in the news.
It is quite true that they won’t allow any demonstrations in Beijing during the Olympics. But I’ve seen no tanks.
I’ve seen numerous examples of art exhibits protesting for more freedom in China. They don’t get shut down and lots of people visit them.
It’s no “Shangri-la” here, but it’s not like 1989 either.
You’re right, of course. I suspect that most of the anti-China folks here haven’t been there or haven’t been there recently. People do speak out, not “against the government,” but against government policies. This seems to be tolerated as long as you don’t touch one of the “third rails” — e.g., Taiwan independence, overthrowing the party, etc.
As long as we’re being provocative, I’ll go a couple steps further:
1. There is more freedom in China today than there was in the American south up to the civil rights movement.
2. China moves toward more freedom for its people while nations like England and Canada often seem to be moving in the opposite direction.
3. If Ayn Rand woke up today in Shanghai or Beijing and took a walk around, she’d ask in amazement, “When were the Communists defeated?”
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