'Damage Is Done' As Outraged City Police Sing Blues

nypost.com ^ | July 19, 2008 | Andrea Peyser

[Free ThinkerNY]

FOR city cops - dedicated men and women on duty 24/7, 365 days a year - it was too little. And far too late.

Yesterday, Detective Ivan Davison, who may have saved lives by shooting a violent perp, was handed back his gun. If the NYPD expected thanks after treating this brave officer like a common criminal, think again.

One of Davison's brethren in Brooklyn, a sergeant with 15 years on the job, spoke for the entire department when he told me it makes little difference that the brass had a change of heart.

"The damage is done," said the sergeant, who asked me not to use his name - and who can blame him?

"Someone is going to get hurt down the line."

The sergeant speaks with the eloquence born of experience in scary places. He joined the NYPD because "I almost think of it as a higher calling. I want to help people."

But now, he said any cop who draws his weapon is treated with suspicion.

Detective Davison got into it early Sunday with alleged miscreant Stephon Allston - a man with a long rap sheet and a bad temper. Allston allegedly shot at Davison three times and, luckily, missed. The cop shot back, wounding him.

But then, Davison was forced to take a Breathalyzer test - an insane rule enacted after the 2006 Sean Bell shooting. It showed he was slightly over the legal intoxication limit for driving. Remember, he was off duty.

[beltfed308]

It showed he was slightly over the legal intoxication limit for driving. Remember, he was off duty. Well as long as he was off duty. I will remember this the next time I get drunk and into an altercation while carrying a firearm.

[RWB Patriot]

More fruit from the tree of the bleeding hearts.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

I will remember this the next time I get drunk and into an altercation while carrying a firearm.

Hope you're carrying a badge along with that piece or you're in for a world of hurt.

Neither you nor I would ever be afforded the same consideration if we happened to get into a firefight while under the influence.

[beltfed308]

Neither you nor I would ever be afforded the same consideration if we happened to get into a firefight while under the influence.

Got that right. Good thing he kinda hit what he was aiming at and not some bystander.

[count-your-change]

NY Post, Gimme a break already! The cop is past the legal limit he would use on anyone else driving and he shoots someone while legally drunk. And he's surprised his gun is taken away and he's put on leave? What did he expect? a medal?
The article says the other fellow “allegedly” fired at the cop, does anyone know for sure?

[Polybius]

Gimme a break already! The cop is past the legal limit he would use on anyone else driving and he shoots someone while legally drunk. And he's surprised his gun is taken away and he's put on leave? What did he expect? a medal?

You know, you're absolutely right.

The cop was off duty and had had some drinks. If he came by and saw you being assaulted on the street by four gang members, he should just keep on walking and let those guys kill you.

Saving your life just ain't worth the hassle.

OFF-DUTY POLICEMAN INVOLVED IN GANG DISPUTE, SHOOTING ... An off-duty police officer was among seven men fired at while trying to stop a gang assault in St. Albans on Sunday. ... The group stepped in after seeing four men assaulting an unidentified man at approximately 2 a.m. .... After stopping the assailants, one of the men, Stephon Allston, 22, of Far Rockaway, allegedly produced a pistol and opened fire when the officer revealed his identity and ordered him to drop his weapon. .... The officer returned fire and the suspects fled. Allston and Rasheem Anderson, of St. Albans, were later apprehended by police at Franklin General Hospital, where one of the men sought treatment for gunshot wounds. .... Allston was charged with attempted murder while Anderson was charged with gang assault. .... Police are investigating the whereabouts of the other two suspects.

[Drango]

Sorry...I don’t want drunk cops carrying. Sue me.

[count-your-change]

What do think would happen to you if you were DUI and shot someone for ANY reason? I really believe your gun would be taken away from you and you would probably have a rather substantial legal bill. He got his gun back and the union is claiming that he was treated badly. Nonsense!
Pay attention here, he wasn't punished or criticized for the shooting, but for being under the influence and for whining about having to be on “modified duty”.
Here's a clue for you, he knew what the policy was.
Booze and guns just do not mix.

[BlazingArizona]

NY Post, Gimme a break already! The cop is past the legal limit he would use on anyone else driving and he shoots someone while legally drunk. And he's surprised his gun is taken away and he's put on leave?

I want criminals to feel threatened. By what means, I don't care.

And I think the medals we give cops like this should be minted from the badges of bureaucrats.

[itsahoot]

Sorry...I don’t want drunk cops carrying. Sue me.

Strange, shouldn't you be more concerned with drunk/high gang bangers carrying?

[Polybius]

What do think would happen to you if you were DUI and shot someone for ANY reason? I really believe your gun would be taken away from you and you would probably have a rather substantial legal bill. ..... Here's a clue for you, he knew what the policy was. Booze and guns just do not mix.

The article said nothing about "DUI". The cop was off duty and had been drinking as was his legal right.

Be that as it may, I said you were absolutely right, didn't I?

I would keep right on walking and let those four gang members kill you. Saving your life just ain't worth the hassle. I already said that, didn't I?

Why are you arguing with me. I am following your advice.

[count-your-change]

I said DUI and I would never argue with someone thinks being too drunk to drive and having a gun is a good idea.
AND THE HORROR! His gun was taken away for a while! Oh, boo hoo hoo. How unfair! He’ll show those mean old bosses, he just won’t do his job anymore!
But then this is what you would do too by your comments.

[goldstategop]

If your boss doesn't trust you, I think the damage would be done, as in any other relationship. I don't like being treated like a criminal when I haven't done anything wrong. That's why the NYPD brass is in hot water with rank and file cops who work very hard to keep every one safe in the city and their work and sacrifices are not appreciated by the department hierarchy.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[goldstategop]

He was off duty. And I don't excuse drinking under normal circumstances but he did not drink on the job. He still should not have been treated like he was. No one wants a cop to be above the law. My view is if you break it, you deserve to have the book thrown at you, but petty humiliation that serves no point is another story altogether.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

[Polybius]

I said DUI .....

Yes, you did, which has absolutely nothing to do with the actual facts of this particular case.

OFF-DUTY POLICEMAN INVOLVED IN GANG DISPUTE, SHOOTING ... An off-duty police officer was among seven men fired at while trying to stop a gang assault in St. Albans on Sunday. ... The group stepped in after seeing four men assaulting an unidentified man at approximately 2 a.m. .... After stopping the assailants, one of the men, Stephon Allston, 22, of Far Rockaway, allegedly produced a pistol and opened fire when the officer revealed his identity and ordered him to drop his weapon. .... The officer returned fire and the suspects fled. Allston and Rasheem Anderson, of St. Albans, were later apprehended by police at Franklin General Hospital, where one of the men sought treatment for gunshot wounds. .... Allston was charged with attempted murder while Anderson was charged with gang assault. .... Police are investigating the whereabouts of the other two suspects.

.... and I would never argue with someone thinks being too drunk to drive and having a gun is a good idea.

As I recall, I agreed with you didn't I?

Let me check ....

"I would keep right on walking and let those four gang members kill you. Saving your life just ain't worth the hassle. ..... I already said that, didn't I? ...... Why are you arguing with me. I am following your advice. "

Yep, I already said that I agreed with you. More than once as a matter of fact.

AND THE HORROR! His gun was taken away for a while! Oh, boo hoo hoo. How unfair! He’ll show those mean old bosses, he just won’t do his job anymore! But then this is what you would do too by your comments.

Won't do my job?

I just walked out of the bar and my alcohol level is just over the legal limit.

"I would never argue with someone thinks being too drunk to drive and having a gun is a good idea."

Saving your life while off-duty and while my alcohol level is slightly above the legal limit is not part of my legal job description and, as you said, it's not a good idea.

You're on your own, buddy.

[count-your-change]

On my own? Oh dear! I was so counting on you too. Well anyway thanks for providing a bit of sport on a quiet afternoon. It was fun and I look forward to the next time.

[Polybius]

On my own? Oh dear! I was so counting on you too. Well anyway thanks for providing a bit of sport on a quiet afternoon. It was fun and I look forward to the next time.

Actually, you were counting on that cop to save you if you had been the man those four gang members were beating to a pulp.

You whined about my sarcastic comment meaning that I would not be "doing my job" if I walked away in one breath while claiming that an alcohol level slightly about the legal limit and a gun was "not a good idea" in the next breath.

You wanted it both ways.

You wanted the cop to save your ass and then you wanted to publicly humiliate the cop because he was drinking on his free time before he saved your ass. The cop not only had his gun taken away. He was also stripped of his badge and suspended and publicly humiliated.

It is because of people like that cop that one person was saved.

It is because of people like you that some people keep on walking rather than get involved.

[DainBramage]

Exactly!..FR is so loaded down with assholes who hate cops no matter what..yet if their little princess was being raped and some cop coming out of a bar after work didnt stop to shoot the sob hes a POS.

Screw em. Most of these cop hating idiots would pee their pants doing what real cops do.

[Fundamentally Fair]

Strange, shouldn't you be more concerned with drunk/high gang bangers carrying?

Why, you want them getting away with it too?

[count-your-change]

What shall we call this amusing little chat? “Guns and Four Roses”? “Laddie Sings the Blues”? “Punch and Shooty”?
I’m having way too much fun with you to continue, but now that I have all these profound insights to mull over I’ll try to take your comments more seriously if you will.
Have a night, Poly.

[Polybius]

Actually, you were counting on that cop to save you if you had been the man those four gang members were beating to a pulp. ... You whined about my sarcastic comment meaning that I would not be "doing my job" if I walked away in one breath while claiming that an alcohol level slightly about the legal limit and a gun was "not a good idea" in the next breath. ... You wanted it both ways. ... You wanted the cop to save your ass and then you wanted to publicly humiliate the cop because he was drinking on his free time before he saved your ass. The cop not only had his gun taken away. He was also stripped of his badge and suspended and publicly humiliated. ... It is because of people like that cop that one person was saved. ... It is because of people like you that some people keep on walking rather than get involved. .... Polybius

What shall we call this amusing little chat? “Guns and Four Roses”? “Laddie Sings the Blues”? “Punch and Shooty”? I’m having way too much fun with you to continue, but now that I have all these profound insights to mull over I’ll try to take your comments more seriously if you will. Have a night, Poly. ....... count-your-change

Nothing to offer except childish taunts when you are caught talking out of both sides of your mouth?

First you mock the cop for using a gun when he was not only trying to stop an assault but also getting shot at because his alcohol level was 0.09. Then you claim that walking away from the situation would have meant that the cop was "not doing his job".

What's it going to be?

In your judgement, the cop was damned if he did and damned if he didn't.

To someone like you that has less character sober than that cop had when he was legally drunk, it does not matter. No matter what the cop did or did not do, someone like you delights in taking the opportunity to criticize his actions.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." .... Theodore Roosevelt

[itsahoot]

Why, you want them getting away with it too?

This tells me all I need to know about you. Bubye

[count-your-change]

“Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor.”
That’s a quote from Teddy also. I found a whole page of his quotes. But the following quote is yours.
“To someone like you that has less character sober than that cop had when he was legally drunk, it does not matter”
I must say that I’m working on my character flaws and sobriety is the next one the list. I was planning too on trying to not say things like, “The Daze of Whine and Poses”, but one thing at a time. Right now I’m working on replacing “childish taunts” with fully mature adult taunts and your contributions are duly noted. However, any comparison of yourself and the cop is a bit strained, don’t you think? I mean he hit his target instead of wounding his feet didn’t he? Night, Poly, show’s over, if you want reruns you’ll have to sit in the dark by yourself.

[Fundamentally Fair]

This tells me all I need to know about you. Bubye

Run away then.

[Polybius]

“Obedience of the law is demanded; not asked as a favor.”

And where, may I ask, is it written in the law that the cop in question be presumed guilty before proven innocent?

Where, may I ask, is it written in the law that the cop in question to be not only presumed guilty but that he also be the subject of humiliating and public punishment before due process?

Where, may I ask, is it written in the law that the cop in question to be humiliated by the likes of you?

"AND THE HORROR! His gun was taken away for a while! Oh, boo hoo hoo. How unfair! He’ll show those mean old bosses,... 13 posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 3:15:58 PM by count-your-change"

The facts of the case, since you obviously never bothered to research them, are as follows:

The New York Times: Within an hour after an off-duty detective shot and wounded a gunman outside a Queens nightclub early Sunday morning, he was given a sobriety test and harshly censured: He was suspended without pay and stripped of his gun and badge after the test showed a blood-alcohol level a fraction over the legal limit for driving.

Did that register with your “Punch and Shooty” brain?

"Within an hour ...."

" ... harshly censured ..."

" ... suspended without pay ..."

" ... stripped of his gun and badge ..."

In this land, the LAW demands that a man be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

You, on the other hand, have perverted that law to mean that that cop, WITHIN AN HOUR was deserving of having his due process rights flushed down the toilet, be found guilty without the benefit of so much as even an investigation, HARSHLY CENSURED and SUSPENDED WITHOUT PAY.

On top of that, "cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat" like you then jump in like jackals to point out how "where the doer of deeds could have done them better".

However, any comparison of yourself and the cop is a bit strained, don’t you think?

I never compared myself to the cop anymore than I compared you to the victim of the four gang bangers.

In my admittedly tongue-in-cheek scenario where I "walked by" and let the four gang bangers finish the job on you, I put the average man in that cops shoes and I put the average man in that victim's place.

I showed in the exchange that, although you were front and center in criticizinmg the cop, in the end, you actually EXPECTED the cop to have saved you if you had been the victim:

" .... he just won’t do his job anymore! But then this is what you would do too by your comments. "

However, since somebody else was the victim, you now reserved the right to applaud that the cop was presumed guilty before proven innocent, "harshly censured" and "suspended without pay" in violations of the principles of the law you now pretend to champion.

I’m having way too much fun with you to continue...

Never assume that you are "playing" somebody as that somebody might be "playing" you and giving you enough rope to hang yourself.

Without bothering to research the actual facts of this case you painted yourself into a corner where you are now defending the fact that this cop was presumed guilty before proven innocent and punished by being suspended without pay and humiliated by a harsh and public censure within an hour of the incident in violation of his due process rights.

Next time, do your research first and load brain before firing mouth.

Exactly!..FR is so loaded down with assholes who hate cops no matter what..yet if their little princess was being raped and some cop coming out of a bar after work didn't stop to shoot the sob hes a POS. Screw em. Most of these cop hating idiots would pee their pants doing what real cops do. ..... DainBramage

Wholeheartedly agree with you, Dain.

[count-your-change]

private reply sent out of mercy