Posted on 07/11/2008 4:28:54 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
Indian Su-30 fighters depart for Red Flag exercise
By Radhakrishna Rao
An Indian air force contingent with eight Sukhoi Su-30MKI combat aircraft, two Ilyushin Il-78 air-to-air refuellers and one Il-76 transport has left India to participate in the 9-23 August multinational exercise Red Flag '08 at the US Air Force's Nellis AFB in Nevada.
It will be the first time that the Russian-made Su-30MKI will participate in multinational manoeuvres involving US and other NATO fighters. India expects to spend around Rp1 billion ($23 million) on its participation in the air combat exercise.
Sources in India's state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation meanwhile say that preparations are in full swing for the first full test firing of the nation's home-grown Astra beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile from an Su-30.
DRDO sources say the weapon will interrupt targets at speeds of Mach 1.2 to M1.4, but have not revealed the missile's range. The Astra - intended to arm aircraft such as the Dassault Mirage 2000 and RSK MiG-29 in air force service - has already undergone ground tests to check its avionics, electronics and other subsystems. The DRDO has also hinted at its intention to develop hypersonic weapon systems.
If the F-22 is there (and it will be) they’ll get their clocks cleaned just like everyone else.
And if the F-22s run out of missiles, they’ll just sneak up behind them and get a gun kill, just like they did at Elmendorf in an exercise a year or so ago. Talk about humiliation...
I figured the F-22 put the SU-30 to shame, but how does the SU-30 stack up against our other fighters? Anyone know?
The SU-30 is a very good aircraft, and the Indian pilots are also. In reports I've read the last time they were up against our F-15's in exercises they surprised a lot of cocky USAF Eagle drivers and fed them all a piece of humble pie.
F-22's however are a different breed...
You people are amazing. Do you realize India is our friend? They are a hell of a lot more trustworthy that Pakistan for freak sake.
Lay off the video games for a while.
In the Su-30mki you have an aircraft that in most aspects meets or exceeds the F-15C. In Indian pilots you probably have the best drivers of that aircraft type. It’ll be a learning experience for both sides if a shooting war should start. That is why these exercises are held after all.
Exactly.
India is becoming a solid US ally and is beginning to consider American equipment over Eastern block alternatives. It was the US that pushed India towards Russia with our alignment with Pakistan in the 1970s.
India is known for top-notch pilots and their equipment isn’t shabby either.
BOTH sides will learn from this exercise.
This is criticaly, because 193 F-22s (th-th-that’s all, floks) won’t cover much airspace.
They should really televise these as sporting events. :) PPV would make a killing.
Do we need to hold hands and start singing Kumbaya too?
This is great training for all involved, and should prompt some very badly needed upgrades on our F-15s.
This is a recent development and a good one. India has been in the Soviet orbit too long...
They guy I work with, and Indian immigrant, was born on a Soviet naval base. His father was an officer in the Indian navy many years ago.
And, he recently obtained his US citizenship.
I thanked him with a bottle of US small-batch bourbon.
We’re getting the best and the brightest from that country.
‘I’d piss on a spark plug if I thought it would help.”
ONE BILLION allies ain’t chump change, friend.
Beautiful aircraft.
India was part of the “non-aligned” movement started by PM Nehru (sp?), but Nixon’s alignment with Pakistan sorta forced their hand.
India had close relations with Britain all through. I wouldn’t call it anti-Western, really.
The relationship with the Soviets was vital for India’s interests, during that time, especially vis-a-vis China; just as Pakistan was necessary for America, vis-a-vis the USSR.
Remember, not a single square-inch of Indian territory was provided to the Soviets, as a military base, ever.
They’re gonna have fun in Vegas, too!
Nehru was an idiot Commie. Most Indians today oppose him and love America. They blame him for all that is wrong with India including poverty. Note that they even have a term for his economic policies. That term is Nehruvian-Stalinism.
However, like in most countries, seasoned politicians have a grip on the political offices and common folk do not know how to get into power. So India continues to have the Nehru family in power despite its unpopularity. The Nehru family’s main source of votes is the Islamofascist lobby to which it gives massive doles. With 15% of India’s population consisting of Muslims, this is a huge chunk. The family is also allied with Communists in India.
I once read an article by an Indian bashing Nehru and the Non-Aligned Movement. According to him, the Non-Aligned Movement legitimized dictatorships and Islamofascist theocracies.
My Indian friends have all told me that the pro-Soviet policies of India were due to the Nehru family and that no Indian ever migrated to USSR. Even during cold war days, the common Indians rooted for USA and had disdain for Communists. I guess the Nehru family is the scourge of India?
I don’t think our guys are allowed to show all of their tactics to foreign countries. I think that is why the Indians had the advantage over the F-15C’s.
Your dad had a reason to be peeved, but the fact of the matter is that when Britain quit India, they carefully chose a Communist leaning person called Nehru and handed over power to him. So blame Mountbatten for it.
BTW, Mountbatten was a homosexual and so was Nehru. They were very close family friends and there was a public love affair between Nehru and Mountbatten’s wife Edwina. I have a serious question for you — considering the fact that a historian has documented Nehru’s homosexuality and Mountbatten was a famous homosexual, would you really believe that Nehru’s affair was with Edwina? Anyway, Mountbatten handed over power to his “family friend,” Nehru, when Britain quit India.
>>Nehru was an idiot Commie
I do love an intellectually handsome framed comment.
Nehru, FYI, among his faults and virtues, was instrumental in setting up the Indian Institutes of Technology, and working with Eisenhower to allow Indian students to study at places like MIT, Stanford, etc, in Nuclear Technology.
He also understood the value of industrializing and modernizing Indian industry.
Not perfect, but certainly not an idiot and not a commie.
He was Kashmiri, and knew and understood Islamic fundies rather well, at a time in the 50’s and 60’s when the USA was using the Muslim Brotherhood as a foil against Nasser.
So you can save the simplistic analysis you offer.
"The Fabian Society is a British intellectual socialist movement, whose purpose is to advance the principles of Social democracy via gradualist and reformist, rather than revolutionary means. It is best known for its initial ground-breaking work beginning late in the nineteenth century and continuing up to World War I. The society laid many of the foundations of the Labour Party and subsequently affected the policies of states emerging from the decolonisation of the British Empire, especially India.
The society is still in existence today and forms a vanguard "think tank" of the centre-left New Labour movement. It is one of fifteen socialist societies affiliated to the Labour Party. Similar societies exist in Australia (the Australian Fabian Society), Canada (the Douglas-Coldwell Foundation and in past the League for Social Reconstruction) and New Zealand."
India's reliance on the Soviets was largely and mostly for cheap weaponry whose need was acute at the time, considering the state of India's immediate post-independence economy, and the rapid rise of China as a major threat.
As for things to do with people, Europe (especially England and France) and America were the only places that mattered. There are barely any Indians, apart from people working for the government, who've had anything to do with the USSR.
I think its because the USAF delayed the upgrades to the F-15C because they wanted to make the need for the F-22 seem greater (probably not a bad tactic given Congress). The SU-30 is an extremely capable aircraft capable of many things that the standard F-15C cannot do.
Nehru’s policies weren’t great in hindsight,but he can hardly be called a commie.Fact is that his policies were not very different from those beipng implemented in western European countries at the same time. Another fact is that the communists themselves disliked Nehru and called him an agent of the west.Besides, Nehru did his utmost to stall the growth of communist political parties, including removing a democratically elected communist government in the state of Kerala.
So which fact should one believe??-Commie or no Commie.
The same applied to the Indian MKI's as well.
There was an article right here on FR, about this very fact. Something to do with the radars that were switched off to prevent 'signature farming' or so. I'll try and run a search.
Whether we like it or not, Nehru was the most popular leader in India at the time of independence. The only ones who could come close to him were an aging Sardar Patel (who died in 1950) and Subhash Chandra Bose, if he didn’t die in WW-2. So no point in blaming Mountbatten for it.
>>historian has documented Nehru’s homosexuality
HAHAHAHAH! When you first “argument” is questioned, you resort to slimy, sleazy, sexual innuendo.
So blame the sainted Britishers.
Way to go, Jimbo!
Are they bringing teepee’s with them?
To protect Sukhoi secrets, IAF will switch off radars during exercise
India’s defence ties with the US may be reaching new heights, but the Air Force is keen to protect the secrets of its latest fighting machine, the Su 30MKI, from probing eyes during the high profile ‘Red Flag’ exercise scheduled to take place at the Nellis airbase in US in August next year.
The Air Force is sending six Su 30s for the prestigious exercise — the first time the latest fighter from the Russian stable will visit North America — but has decided to keep the aircraft’s classified NO11M BARS radar switched off during the entire war game.
While alternative arrangements are being made to ensure that the performance of the fighters at the “world’s toughest aerial combat training exercise” does not get compromised, the IAF top brass is clear that the secret frequencies used by the BARS radar to track enemy targets and launch offensive weapons should not be exposed.
“The radar frequencies are top secret as they can be used to block vital functions of the fighter. While we have a good equation with the US, we have to be careful about the future,” a senior IAF officer said.
Perhaps, the IAF has not yet recovered from its experience at the Indra Dhanush exercise in UK earlier this year, where US and UK spy planes tried to snoop on the Su 30 MKI’s radar.
According to some reports, a US Air Force RC-135U electronic spy plane and a UK Air Force BAC 111 test plane equipped with radar detecting gear were snooping around the Waddington airbase during the two-week war game. However, the BARS radar was switched off during that exercise too.
Also, Russia is keen to protect the frequencies of its radar as it has just started getting global orders for the Su 30. “There are IPR related issues too as Russia would not want its radar frequencies to be revealed,” the IAF officer said.
The US is specially interested in the BARS radar as the Su 30s are becoming the mainstay fighter of the Chinese Air Force too.
>>Commie
Facts are so passe. We’re Americans, we’re into feelings.
> Whether we like it or not, Nehru was the most popular
Correct me if I am wrong, wasn’t Gandhy the most popular leader when it came to attracting masses and having name recognition?
I don’t think it is fair to compare India with West Europe. If there is one area that I can claim expertise in, it is Economics. India had a planned economy complete with Planning Commission and Five-Year Plans and food distribution through government controlled ration shops and most of the major industries being controlled by the government. No West European country had a Soviet style Planning Commission to plan out the economy.
Gandhy(sp) was shot dead in 1947.
Nehru was closely identified with Gandhi and was his confidant. There was no one else at the time who had the love and confidence of the people like Nehru.
Granted, not a perfect man by any means.
Gandhi had no interest in formal political office.
Nehru did in fact dispatch a medical battalion to Korea. To fight with the UN forces. Not exactly the actions of a communist.
Gandhi stepped back from holding public office long before the likes of Nehru and Patel came to the front-he promoted them to be the political face. IOW, he was not a candidate for leadership, which is what we are talking about.
Yes, but India never outlawed small commerce like the commies. Shopkeepers and markets were never outlawed.
Big Industry was nationalized, correct, but at that time, similar actions were underway in both Britain and France.
Are you telling me that active government controls were absent in post-war Europe??? The kind of Soviet planning you refer to went into full swing after Nehru.
Alright, for the sake of argument, he was bisexual.
So what?
>>They are all the same to me
And this huge blinder, the inability to differentiate, is what causes a lot of trouble.
I refer you to a book called Spies in the Himalayas by Retd Mil types named Kohli and Conboy detailing the joint operations conducted by India and the US against China in Tibet.
Britain had something on these lines for their post-WW2 recovery. Other countries ran schemes for food stamps, agricultural subsidies, employment exchanges and the like. Same thing, different names.
As for the planning commissions and five-year plans, private industry was not quashed, like in Russia or the other Communist countries, and interestingly, that was the same time the Indian government established the major business schools across the country.
>>a satellite of USSR.
OK, India was like Poland, or Bulgaria.
Ignorance such as yours is fairly impervious to facts.
You’re obsessed with Nehru’s sexuality and your own conclusions about India’s economy and the “ Stalinism” of Nehru.
Fine.
LOL, my dad ran a small shop making proximity sensors, from the garage of his rented home, about 40 years ago. In such endeavours, he was certainly not alone, nor especially privileged to do so. In the thick of License Raj. Some of the big companies in India today were small startups in the sixties and seventies. What changed with liberalisation most significantly was the ability to import and export goods far easily. The rest is basically as it always was.
The government's amount of interference all along, hasn't been any different. It'd take the same amount of pushing papers in 1960, to start a business, as it does now. In fact, it has increased for these days.
Buddy, I have no problem with your view about Nehru,but why blame Mountbatten for handing over power??Mountbatten handed over power to the Congress, with Gandhi essentially splitting responsibilities between Nehru and Patel. If Patel had lived a few years longer, he would have continued to balance out Nehru.
About the government opening universities, bodies like the IITs and IIMs were autonomous in nature, not run by the government.
Your painting anyone not agreeing with you as being sympathetic to communists only reduce the weight of your arguments.
At the time I read the reports, they were coupled with arguments that this showed the need to get lots of F-22's so we could keep up.
I wondered if the F-15's were trying their best, or whether they were told that demonstrating a lack of need for the F-22 would be a career-ending move
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