Posted on 07/10/2008 2:10:50 PM PDT by forkinsocket
The grave implications of how Islam and Christianity have dealt differently with their Jewish roots.
"Abrahamic religions" has become a widely used term, particularly among interfaith groups, to designate the three major monotheistic religions. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has called for an interfaith meeting to be attended by representatives of the "Abrahamic religions," beginning with a Saudi-sponsored conference in Madrid next week. This phrase, focusing on the character of Abraham, seeks to emphasize the shared characteristics of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. As the first person to establish a covenantal relationship with God based on His role as the sole deity and supreme authority, Abraham is accepted as a prophet by all three monotheistic faiths.
On a theological level, both Christianity and Islam have had to reconcile their belief that Abraham is a true prophet, but that his religion--Judaism--is not the true religion. This inherent need to invalidate Jews as the "chosen people" has had concrete manifestations throughout history--and is at the root of much of medieval and contemporary anti-Semitism. Resolving this seeming paradox has been the first step in healing Christian-Jewish relations, and is a necessary process for Muslim leaders as well before any serious interfaith work can be successful.
Jews themselves have historically recognized the difficult situation imposed on them by their "chosen" status. Sigmund Freud, using his theory of the subconscious, blamed this special categorization (in his words, "the first-born, the favorite child of God") for the world's obsession with and hatred of Jews. In turn, Jews throughout history have looked upon the "chosen" concept as controversial and arrogant, and many have tried to reject or deny it.
(Excerpt) Read more at tnr.com ...
Since the Arabs/Muslims consider Ishmael to be the blessed son of Abraham as opposed to Isaac, as Jews and Christians do, this is a difference that will not be easy to bridge.
read later
Abraham ran Ishmael and Hagar off so he could have no part in Issac’s inheritance. The Bible also say’s ishmael’s people will be “wild asses” pretty apt description.
“Wild Asses Gone Wild”
3:1 What advantage, then, is there in being a Jew, or what value is there in circumcision? 2 Much in every way! First of all, they have been entrusted with the very words of God....9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one;....
Seems to me if all three formed a Masonic-type organization they would be able to meet as equals and as fellow humans. Keep their faith and politics out of their meetings and see how much good they can accomplish as a group without waving church banners.
I got a simple solution: Which came first, the writing of Moses or the writing of Mohammed? I seem to recall the Koran stating the story of Abraham. Where did Mohammed get his historical texts to write the Koran? Oh yeah, he had a seperate vision from angels afterwards telling him Moses got it all wrong but yet in his writing of the Koran blesses Moses and Abraham.
Ooops, better be careful here, I could get decapitated for saying that. Oh wait, Christ told me to know them by there works. There, that was easy I found common sense again in my moment of fear.
Hmmm. Fear. Is fear a fruit of a benevolent God? Some Christians here might think that even engaging in such debates with Islam is would cause God to strike us all dead.
But did not Christ state that those without illness need no doctor? He was chastised and crucified for attempting to awake the Jewish religious leadership. He did not seem to have fear. We do not need to fear with engaging discussions with Islam but nor should we ever consider capitulating out of fear of ‘conversion to Islam or death’. I’ll go Christ’s route thank you because even if there was no afterlife one belief teaches liberation through the choice of free will and reaping what you sow while the other tells you what to do or face slavery, death and/or treachery for disobedience. Islam is about FEAR in other words.
Hence, from a secular or spiritual perspective, Islam is flawed and makes little sense in how we as humans are born into this earth. I do give Muslims credit for there family structure preservation and hospitality to guests. But until the Koran itself is either discredited or Islam suffers tremendous defeat (again) the 3% of Mohammeds destructive teachings in the Koran will always destroy the 97% positive teachings.
The ratios of ‘militant’ Islamists vs ‘passive’ Muslims is startling in line with the Koran’s teachings/percentages of destructive teachings vs followers in in these camps.
Christianity had to come to terms that black people are not to be slaves just because a passage in the old testament said so of a culture at the TIME. Hence, Islam must desert it’s teachings that Christians and Jews are lower then pigs and apes. Hopefully this occurs the easy way, but unfortunately I doubt it. Mecca will likely be vaporized before Muslims realize there doctrine was flawed, no different then the Japanese worship of Emporer Hirohito. I do not wish for such to become true, as many innocents will suffer, but leadership in Islam must continue to step forward to avoid such a painful fate of it’s worshipers and reign in militant Islam. Many are still funding militant Islam, not good.
If he wanted to actually do something, he’d have the conference in Mecca, or at a church or synagogue in Saudi Arabia /sarc off
How many muslims are islamists?
Actually, the "black people are the cursed descendants of Ham" argument was comparatively modern in Christianity, and actually originated in Islamic traditions about the OT source material (e.g. al-Tabari in the Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk (History of the Prophets and Kings), c. 915 AD, gives this interpretation of the Genesis 9 account).
I learn something new every day. Thanks for sending that over. Makes you wonder as well how much else of inspired scripture was altered at the Council of Nicea for example. Man for selfish purposes always distorts God’s simple message of self-improvement. No wonder God Himself steps in before we destroy our ignorant selves.
Sorry but this is not an Abraham issue, if only to try to tie this into the “worshiping the same God” crap! Jews and Chritians believe in the same God as Abraham & Moses. Christians take it to the next level that God has fufilled his promise of bringing us the Messiah; Jesus, who is God in the flesh. Therefore God and Jesus are one withthe holy Spirit. Muslims believe that no one is greater than Mohammad, including Christ, therefore denouncing God himself.
From a Christian perspective, this is absolute balderdash.
Christian teaching (among all but the radical anti-semites) is that that the Jewish people were, and remain, God's Chosen People.
Christians are “grafted on” to the promise to Abraham by-and-through the blessing of Jesus as the Christ.
Yes, there is fundamental disagreement regarding the nature of a certain gentleman born of a young woman of David's line in Bethlehem and whether it is necessary to recognize that person as the Messiah in order to be acceptable to God, and that disagreement has, in the eyes of Christians, eternal consequences.
But that disagreement DOES NOT make Jews bad people, nor lessen their status as the Chosen People.
In the eyes of Christians, that disagreement is a terrible tragedy because Jews are the apple of God's eye and his favorite children, so He's particularly sad about their failure to come home, so to speak.
The article goes on “established by Paul at the end of the first century, which claims that the followers of Jesus replaced the Jews as the “true Israel.”
Paul wrote no such thing. This makes me so mad.
Replacement Theology was a heresy long rejected by the Roman Catholic Church and most every other denomination.
Here is a link on the issue:
http://therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm
Nonsense from the author. Christians have never had any trouble seeing Judaism as a “true” religion. Jesus was born into and practiced the Jewish religion.
Abraham lived and died before Judaism was established.
Islam has nothing to do with Judaism anymore than say Shintoism.
Great post, right on every point. I was thinking along the same lines when I read the article.
Nonsense.
Christians who sincerely study the Bible will attest that Abraham worshipped the true God.
It is later when Jews rejected the the Messiah was born as man and died for their sins that Judaism strayed.
The eternal purpose of God from the creation of the world was Christ. All the events of the Old Testament prior to Christ were but types and shadows of Christ and the church.
The Christian ideal is Christ, not Old Testament Israel. Christ fulfills all...including Israel. He is the true Israel. All that Israel was supposed to be, but never measured up to, is found in Christ.
As to the elect, or “chosen people,” if one is in Christ (his body) he is part of the elect or chosen people. He is in the new Israel. An Israel, not of the flesh, but of faith.
Islam believes and attests that Jesus was a great prophet but doesn’t accept him as Christ. Now if He isn’t Christ and didn’t rise from the dead, He is a liar or insane. How then can they say He is a great prophet? Islam is full of contradictions like this.
The profound, but simple truth! Thanks.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.