Posted on 07/08/2008 8:13:51 PM PDT by neverdem
CAPITOL MEDIA SERVICES
PHOENIX — Arizonans without state permits will not be able to carry loaded guns under the seats of their cars. Gov. Janet Napolitano on Monday vetoed legislation that would have made cars and trucks the same as someone's home, where you could have a gun anywhere, visible or not.
The governor said the measure "would have added to the level of uncertainty and danger law enforcement officers who make traffic stops already face in the line of duty."
But Rep. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, said existing law already allows people to carry holstered weapons in places not visible to someone outside the car, including the glove compartment and the map pocket, the slot in the door. He said his measure would just have simplified the law so as not to make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens.
Napolitano also vetoed another bill that would have forbidden police from charging people with illegally carrying a concealed weapon if any portion of the gun were visible.
"Common sense tells us that exposure of a small corner of a gun handle is insufficient to give reasonable notice to the public or law enforcement that a person is armed," the governor wrote. Napolitano instead prefers existing law, which requires a weapon be "wholly or partially visible."
The two vetoes bring to five the number of weapons bills Napolitano vetoed this session. She already has rejected measures to:
● Reduce the penalty for carrying a concealed weapon without a permit to a fine rather than jail time. ● Allow those with concealed-weapon permits to opt for lifetime registration.
● Permit those who believe they are threatened to unholster a gun without being charged with a crime. Todd Rathner, a board member of the National Rifle Association, called the series of vetoes "baffling." "We have to question whether she hasn't turned her back on gun owners," said Rathner. He said it may be because she is a "lame duck" or because "she's just not worried about holding statewide office anymore."
But Rathner, a Tucson resident, said if Napolitano does decide to run for the U.S. Senate or some other post when her gubernatorial term ends in 2010, she will get a rating from the NRA far below the C-minus she earned prior to her 2006 reelection — most likely an F.
"There's no other place to go," he said. "She'd have to sign an awful lot of bills between now and her next race to make up for this session."
Kavanagh, who crafted the measure about guns in vehicles, said his concern is not about philosophy but practicality.
A concealed-weapon permit requires fingerprinting, a background check and for someone to pass a state-approved course, which includes information on gun laws as well as proving ability to handle a firearm. Those without a permit can have a holstered gun in a vehicle in permitted places like the glove compartment or map pocket. Kavanagh said motorists should not have to try to figure out the "green and red zones in a car." He also said the law allows individuals to be arrested if they have a weapon visible on the passenger seat, but it is inadvertently covered when a driver stops short and the gun is covered by a jacket. Kavanagh, however, acknowledged he does not know of anyone actually arrested in such a situation.
Kavanagh said he was not impressed by the opposition from Arizona police chiefs, who urged Napolitano to veto the measure.
"What gun laws have the police chiefs not come out against," he said. Nor did Kavanagh, a retired police officer for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, accept the argument his measure would have made life more dangerous for law enforcement.
"If an officer's approaching a car and he thinks the people are suspicious, he should act as if the person has a gun for his or her own safety," he said.
The veto of the other measure did more than kill a change about what part of a gun needs to be visible. That measure also would have let members of a sheriff's department reserve or posse carry a concealed weapon without a state permit if they had received state-approved firearms training.
Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, said many county sheriffs use volunteer reserve officers who already have been certified as police officers. He said this change in law was designed to clarify that they also can carry concealed weapons, something he said is necessary for undercover operations.
Pearce also said that gubernatorial lobbyist Suzie Barr told him the governor had no problem with the bill. Barr conceded the point, saying she had read only the part about posse and reserve officers and "had not read the entire bill," including the change in what constitutes a concealed weapon. But Barr said Napolitano had vetoed that change before and Pearce "should have known" that language was not acceptable to the governor.
Ignore the Constitution behind the curtain.
The ones that LE has to worry about...well Governor...I doubt they will pay any attention to this law.
Are search warrants still required for cars? Some people live in their car, what else are they using here?
Yeah, because criminals always obey the law. The logic of left wing idiots is so patently phony that anyone who can't see through it must be total idiots also.
“The governor said the measure “would have added to the level of uncertainty and danger law enforcement officers who make traffic stops already face in the line of duty.”
Yeah, those criminals always obey the law. And all of those law-abiding citizens are always shooting cops. Up is down. Black is white. Stupid is smart.
The laws surrounding guns in cars have long been tricky and weird.
Loaded or unloaded, in the trunk or in a secured case, in a holster or not, holster has a snap or a buckle, in the glove box, concealed in view or on the dash board, carried by driver or passengers, under seat, mentioned to police officer at traffic stop or not, CC permit volunteered or only on request, cartridge load type, concealed compartments or holsters, etc., etc., etc.
And every jurisdiction is different. To make matters worse, there are so many trivia bits that most police officers don’t know what is legal and what is not.
well DUH !!! as it should be when you interfere with the peaceable movement of citizens...
How bout we DE-regulate arms and then leo wouldnt hafta worry and fret, it would be a given that the driver is armed just like barney...
this b!tch prolly never vetoed a $$$ grubbing traffic law...
LFOD...
I kid you not, I once had a cop ask 'if I had a concealed permit' for a pistol that obviously wasnt concealed, he looked straight at it when he got to the window...
the civil servants exam for these guys mustve been easier than for garbage men...
I was arrested once in Jackson Mississippi at aged 23 for having an unloaded gun in plain view on the front seat.
Cop said it had to be locked in the trunk. 1981
A black (yes I’m throwing that in for effect) detective who was my grandma’s neighbor came down and got the whole thing dropped the second I hit the station.
Pissed that cop off good.
I’d had a few choice words for him admittedly.
Just do what I did and get your concealed carry permit. The lesbian governor can’t do squat about that!
this little tyrant probably knew better anyways, but once I told him it wasnt concealed and that Ky is open carry, and that IF he wanted to push the issue that yes in fact I do have a 'permit' for ccw, he went on to the 'reason' for NASCAR drafting my bumper for 2 miles and damn near running me off the road before he got round to blue lights... [.000 bac BTW, so I got off with only a 'careless driving' ticket]
my elementary teacher wife a l m o s t went to jail that night, she was so angry over the ticket that she flat refused to sit in the car, barney was puffin up the chest and finally I told her to get in the damn car...hehehlolo
wasted an afternoon in traffic court, judge tossed it...
Anyone know how the law views motor homes?
We have got to get rid of this rat governor...she has been the most veto happy governor in Az history. And she has veteod some really good conservative bills.
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus
Carry Permit requirements = Infringement.
FFL requirement = Infringement.
BATF existence = Infringement.
Heller = just the first step down a long road back to Freedom.
When will conservatives learn that NO Democrat should be voted for, no matter what 'conservative' rhetoric they use.
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