How bad can a womb experience be? You have to be especially deranged to be homosexual in Sweden.
Posted on 06/30/2008 11:28:39 PM PDT by neverdem
Why are some people gay? Most researchers who study sexual orientation think that both genetic and environmental factors play a role, but the relative contributions of each remain unclear. A new study of Swedish twins reinforces earlier findings that environmental influences--including the environment in the womb--may play a greater role than genes. Scientists studying complex human behaviors often turn to twin studies. Researchers look at both identical and fraternal twins to see how often they share a trait--a parameter called concordance. The greater the concordance among genetically identical twins compared with fraternal twins--who share only half of their genes--the more likely that genetic factors are involved.
Earlier twin studies of sexual orientation have suggested varying degrees of genetic and environmental influences. But they have suffered from the limitations typical of all twin studies. These include small sample sizes and assumptions that identical and fraternal twins both have the same family environments; if identical twins are treated more similarly by their parents than fraternal twins, for example, this could be mistaken for a genetic influence. Recruitment biases are also an issue: Some studies have enlisted participants who openly identify themselves as gay, who may not be typical of the entire homosexual population.
To try to get around these problems, a team led by Niklas Langström, a psychiatrist at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, recruited subjects from the Swedish Twin Registry, the world's largest. All 43,808 twins born in Sweden between 1959 and 1985 were invited to participate in a Web-based survey that comprised a wide range of questions about personal behaviors and experiences. The team ended up with a sample of 3826 twin pairs, of which 2320 were identical and 1506 fraternal. Of that sample, roughly 5% of men and 8% of women reported sexual activity with a member of the same sex at least once during their lifetimes. Then they plugged the survey responses into a standard mathematical model for comparing identical and fraternal twins.
The results, published online this month in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, confirm earlier findings that identical twins are more concordant for same-sex behaviors than fraternal twins are but only modestly so: In men, genetic effects appeared to explain 34% to 39% of the differences between the two twin groups, whereas in women, genetics accounted for only about 18% to 19% of the difference--a finding consistent with other research showing that sexual orientation in women is not as rigidly determined as it is in men.
As for what environmental factors might be at play, the authors point out that these might not be entirely social but could also be biological. For example, some studies have suggested that exposure to prenatal hormones or even the mother's immune system could influence the sexual development of a fetus.
J. Michael Bailey, a psychologist at Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois, who led earlier twin studies of sexual orientation, calls the new study "good, important, and one unlikely to be bettered in the near future." But Jonathan Beckwith, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School in Boston, says that the new work fails to overcome a number of problems faced by previous twin studies. He notes that the final sample included only 12% of the males in the Swedish registry, leaving open the possibility of recruitment bias. And Beckwith says that the failure to control for family environment could inflate estimates of genetic influence.
Hmmmmm, might not be, could be, its possible, maybe this but also maybe that.....not much certainty with these studies. Seems to me they need to learn from the global warmers and just declare that its genetics, or envirnoment, the debate is over and anyone who disagrees should be hanged.
Finally liberals have found something in which they don't support choice ... I'm so relieved
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How bad can a womb experience be? You have to be especially deranged to be homosexual in Sweden.
Is the bald one in the middle behind all the others the British girl?
“Gay Is Not All in the Genes”
True, it’s mostly in the anus.
Sometimes it’s in the carpet.
Thank you God...
Just get back to us when you have it figured out - so we can dial these errors out of the population.
Those girls look gay
Guess what: humans have faults. Alcohol, drugs, adultery, homosexuality, lying, thievery, fiscal corruptions, and all the other filth we vomit out of our souls.
Jeremiah said 2600 years ago "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
Solomon said 3000 years ago said "and there is no new thing under the sun."
But, we are all so smart and enlightened now, compared to them.
Note to self: Book a trip to Sweden asap.
(Swedish speed bump sign)
I don't think anyone questions whether or not the behavior is voluntary or not, of course it is voluntary in a rational, non psychotic, human being. The question is whether the drive, or the feelings that trigger the desire for that behavior, are voluntary. That is where the genetic v environment question comes in IMHO.
However, the question of whether or not society should regulate the behavior, or to what degree, should rest on society's view of how harmful that behavior is to society, regardless of the genetics v environment debate.
HIV infection can be spread in this manner. Use caution, or better yet, keep your hands to yourself and cool your jets.
Its not biology, its a mental disorder, pure and simple. The “they are just like everyone else” crowd are nothing more than the enabler for the alcoholic, and its long past time that public policy stop being run by these complete crazy notions.
These people need help and pity, not enabling.
Think “using absurdity to demonstrate absurdity”.
No way was the poster advocating violent action against gays - just stating an absurd “choice” to demonstrate the ridiculousness of the opposition’s argument.
Classic alcoholic/addictive behavior includes trying to get everyone else in the room to drink as well.
I’ve even seen this with someone “addicted” to Botox and plastic surgery.
It’s the desire to get everyone else to accept or indulge in the behavior to make it more “normal”.
I didn’t mean to insinuate that Lucky Dog was advocating violence, merely to point out to all that HIV has been documented to be spread by that activity. I apologize if my purpose was misconstrued.
Glad someone got it... Thanks...
The question is whether the drive, or the feelings that trigger the desire for that behavior, are voluntary.I don't believe that's quite the question we should be asking or answering, but it's close.
Credible studies state same-sex attraction stems from many factors, not any one factor and for me that makes a sense. There's a good summary of the issue here.
In reading about, talking with and watching interviews with ex-gays, they talk about, how, when they experienced same-sex attraction, they were confused about their sexuality.
From everything I've read, the vast majority of those with same-sex-attraction do not choose their same-sex attraction, but neither are they born with it. Now, I say the vast majority because some admit to choosing the homosexual life (Queer by Choice), a group in the small minority.
Is homosexuality (same-sex attraction) biological? Yes, but that's only part of it. To understand the issue we must understand associated traits, heritability and what is inherited. Is homosexuality (same-sex attraction) caused by environment? Yes, but that's only part of it. It's impossible to discuss sexuality without a reference to our environment.
It's all quite complicated and requires years of study to completely understand, at least in my opinion.
California voters need to know the facts before they vote in November.
I strongly feel that being gay is a birth defect, or a defect in the womb as the articles says. Something goes wrong while the babies are in there.
I also feel that this behavior is part of the curse of sin on mankind. It is a result of sin and evil. People would not voluntarily choose to be gay no matter how “glamerous” TV and movies make it out to be. I find the behavior extremely disgusting, and any normal rational human also does.
I can understand why some people think like that but if being gay was a birth defect, how do we explain:
It was only 30 some years ago that homosexuality was still categorized as a mental disorder by the American psychiatric community.
With God anything is possible. I also said I feel that it is part of the curse of sin. There is no doubt most homosexuals are seriously messed up in the head, no matter how much they try to hide it. Mostly it’s just a sad, demented condition.
Is the drive to smash a homosexual in the face after he has propositioned you, genetic, or the result of the environment? Exactly how harmful to society is this behavior?
Should society regulate the behavior of smashing homosexuals in the face? Exactly how harmful to society is smashing homosexuals in the face?
Are incest, polygamy, prostitution, pedophilia harmful to society? Should society regulate the behavior of incest, polygamy, prostitution, pedophilia? Exactly how harmful to society are these behaviors, if, in deed, they are?
Homosexual practitioners are responsible, either, directly or indirectly, for the vast majority of this country’s HIV/AIDS infections as well as a huge STD rate. Beyond these impacts is the disruption to society of thousands of years of marital tradition and the stability of the basic building block of society, the family.
Are these impacts which the result of homosexual behavior harmful to society? Should society regulate the behavior that causes these impacts? Exactly how harmful to society are these behaviors, if, in deed, they are
Regarding 1 above, I don’t know. With respect to face smashing a homosexual who has propositioned you, I would say that is simply a response to an insult and thus ordinary normal behavior. Regarding unprovoked face smashing of homosexuals, some psychologists would refer to that as "reaction formation" and thus a mental disorder.
However, as I said in my previous post, it doesn’t matter whether it is genetic or the result of the environment, the behavior is still voluntary and as such the perpetrator should be held responsible for that behavior.
Regarding the remainder of your post, you have listed several behaviors that involve unwilling or underage participants, and other behaviors that involve willing adult participants. With respect to sexual behavior involving unwilling or underage participants, of course it is harmful, abusive, and should be considered an assault and dealt with accordingly and thus be illegal. This includes unprovoked face-smashing.
Regarding behaviors involving willing adult participants, yes, they are still harmful to society in the various ways you mentioned. However, with the exception of prostitution, you left out fornication i.e. any heterosexual activity outside marriage to include pre-marital sex and adultery. These activities also harm society by spreading venereal disease, causing unwanted pregnancies that often lead to the murder of the unborn, lead to divorce in the case of adultery and hence disrupt thousand of years of marital tradition.
Whether or not all these behaviors should be regulated by society and to what extent, that is a good question.
Indeed, homosexual behavior as are most behaviors are almost always a conscious choice. I think some people get confused when identical terms are defined differently by those using the terms.
Depending on the context, I may use the term homosexuality to mean same-sex sexual behavior while other times, depending on the context, I may used the term homosexuality to mean same-sex attraction.
From everything I've read I'd say same-sex attraction is very rarely a choice but same-sex sexual behavior is almost always a choice.
I believe same-sex atttraction is much more than a feeling just as opposite-sex attraction is much more than a feeling. I say that as the causal factors of our sexuality and to whom we are attracted is extremely complex.
Why should anyone (meaning, especially, society, in general) other the person experiencing a feeling be concerned with it?
Perhaps I haven't stated some things as clearly as I could have. The first line of the article asks "Why are some people gay?" and then it continues to provide reasons why some people might be gay. As in most articles similar to this article, I don't think this article in particular answers the question but scientists are always loooking for answers.
We'll just have to disagree here.
Who cares as long as the individual experiencing the feeling, whether it is a gay feeling or anger or lust, as long as the individual does not act on it?
Those experiencing same-sex attraction may want help overcoming their attraction to the same sex. People who care are scientists, therapists, friends, etc.
Societal restrictions (i.e., laws and regulations) are about controlling behavior not feelings.
I haven't looked at the price of tea in China lately.
Some of the reasons are many were mislead into believing homosexuals are born with their same-sex attraction and so they supported gay rights. Political correctness plays a part as well. The homosexual agenda is well organized, well funded and some of those pushing their agenda are in places of authority.
Since Simon LeVay, a gay scientist and activist thinks people are more likely to support gay rights if they think gays are born with their same-sex attraction, then perhaps educating the masses that science doesn't support the born that way theory will help to alleviate some of the issues you raise.
I strongly feel that male homosexuality is a sexual addiction. This explains the multiple partners, anonymous sex, inability and or lack of desire to be monogamous, disregard of Hiv/Aids/Std risks.
It's probably accurate to say some homosexuals have a sexual addiction, but saying all have a sexual addiction is too broad of a statement, IMO.
Not all homosexuals have multiple partners or more than heterosexual partners have. Not all have annonymous sex, etc.
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