Posted on 06/27/2008 7:50:22 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy
SALT LAKE CITY 26 June 2008 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints took steps today to better inform the public about differences between the Salt Lake City-based church and the polygamous group in Texas that calls itself the FLDS.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - whose members are often called "Mormons" - placed a series of video interviews on its web site to illustrate the differences between its own members in Texas and members of the isolated polygamous group.
The Texas Mormons featured on the video interviews include a director of community theater, an orthopedic surgeon, a vice president of a medical manufacturer, a former Houston Oilers quarterback, a news anchor and a young woman with aspirations for medical school.
bump for later
They may need to check with CBS. Did you see “Numbers” tonight?
Yup, there’s a huge difference. The FLDS are much more like the original version.
FLDS = Mormon Classic LDS = Mormon Lite
“Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing” - This is so beautiful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUhU0HgTq94
Law And Order SVU writers also get lots of their story lines from the news and some from Internet discussion sites ... they did a version of my novella (Evil Rising) which RJayneJ posted at FR once for free downloading to fundraiser contributors ... I was thrilled that they did the story since it brought to the public’s attention the use of abortion for ‘fetal tissues used for medical treatments’. You can almost bank on someone in the writing staff (her name was flashed onscreen this evening) getting material from discussions like occur at FR.
Pretty much. I know today’s Mormons revere their founders, but I suspect they’d be about as appalled meeting them as a Mohawk of today would be running into one of his cannibalistic ancestors.
Not that I have much to talk about. I’d be scared to death meeting a genuine Viking!
The current LDS has ‘evolved’ past where the FLDS are still hung up.
“Yup, there’s a huge difference. The FLDS are much more like the original version.”
Exactly. FLDS believe what Joseph Smith (cultist) taught -
including polygamy in the here and now.
LDS have forgone here and now polygamy and just believe in
eternal polygamy.
Other than that, they have a HUGE amount of common belief
... and of course, both groups are mormon groups.
ampu
“Yup, there’s a huge difference. The FLDS are much more like the original version.”
Let’s take a look at the original...
________________________________________________________
“Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.” (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)
“If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]” Apostle George Q. Cannon, as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142
“Whosoever... does not confess that God has sent Joseph Smith, and revealed the everlasting Gospel to and through him, is of Antichrist...,” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 8, p. 176
[There is] “no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
“No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith...every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are... [Joseph Smith] reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim—”Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!” But it is true.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p.289-91
“He that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is anti-christ” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.312
“It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,” Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
“I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.” Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
“You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a God, and also upon Brigham Young, our Governor” Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, p. 88
“It is to be feared that in course of a century, some gifted man like Paul, some splendid orator, who will be able by his eloquence to attract crowds of the thousands who are ever ready to hear, and be carried away by, the sounding brass and tinkling cymbal of sparkling oratory, may command a hearing, may succeed in breathing a new life into this modern Mahometanism, and make the name of the martyred Joseph ring as loud, and stir the souls of men as much, as the mighty name of Christ itself. Sharon, Palmyra, Manchester, Kirtland, Far West, Adam-ondi-Ahman, Ramus. Nauvoo, and the Carthage Jail, may become holy and venerable names, places of classic interest, in another age; like Jerusalem, the Garden of Gethsemane, the Mount of Olives, and Mount Calvary to the Christian, and Mecca and Medina to the Turk.” Brigham Young, History of the Church, Vol. 7, p.40-41
The operative word is officially. In 1890, the heat was on. The leader of the Mormons had a revelation. “God” said, “ixnay on the olygamypay.” Officially, the era of polygamy was over. I've driven the entire length of the I-15 in Utah. I wondered why the little farm towns had so many big, not fancy, just big houses. the FDLS story gave me the answer. The “off the books,” “sister wives,” and their “fatherless children,” are eligible for welfare.
Mormon polygamy is alive and well and taxpayer subsidized.
Careful there m’Lady, you will be called a liar, a Mormon hater, for posting quotes from LDS source documents ...
Yeah. I have no problem with the modern LDS people or church, although I don’t share their beliefs.
The original version was scary as hell. I’m always amused by those who think “cults” are a modern invention, when the LDS Church was perhaps the most successful of all.
As you say, they’ve evolved past that stage. Thank goodness.
Jesus loves me
This I know
For my Jesus
told me so
:)
The polygamous Mormons are a pretty small group. I doubt they make up a significant portion of the Utah population.
There are about 40,000 polygamous Mormons in the western US total, with about 10,000 in Hillsdale and Colorado City. This doesn't leave many to fill up all those famr towns in the rest of Utah.
Had you considered that "normal" Mormons tend to have large families? I worked for a guy with seven daughters.
Members of polygamist groups in Utah number about 25,000, something around 1% of the population. A good portion of these believe in but do not (yet, anyway)practice polygamy.
Don’t blame this on Utah. It’s not aggressively pursued anywhere. After the debacle in TX, I don’t think you’ll find any state anxious to jump in.
For all practical purposes, polygamy has just become legal throughout the US.
Incidentally, do you find it amazing (as I do) that the LDS are launching a campaign to characterize themselves as 'restorers of actual Christinaity' at the same time the drek of this FLDS off-shoot is so publicized?
When degenerate same-sex ‘marriage’ is court protected as ‘viable’ marriage, polygamy is just a lawsuit away from the same status (as well as other diavnt behaviors). Lawrence v Texas didn’t help the nation remain sane don’tchaknow.
If you are going to take a look at the original, then at least bother to quote the whole thing, including historical context.
http://www.carm.org/lds/docs/HC_v6_408-9.htm
http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080611181229AAGSCfU
Never trust your minister to provide you with unbiased views of other religions. Research! (I did the first two, you can do the rest)
“If you are going to take a look at the original, then at least bother to quote the whole thing, including historical context.”
Wow! You are so right. When you put those quotes in context they are even MORE damning against Joseph Smith. The arrogance, the pride, the deceitfulness, come through in High Def.
Thank you for posting the context.
What a fraud that guy was!
best,
ampu
No thank you...
I have the real original in the Bible...
If you want research done, do it yourself..
While most American polygamists live in Utah, I don’t think it’s fair to blame the state government or its people for that fact. As I said, other states aren’t any more anxious to prosecute them.
ROFLOL Lynch mob = self-actualized demise.
Your bait isn’t working tonight, try soemthing new.
The polygamists can not be stopped without wrecking freedom of religion—we need to control them so they don’t abuse the many marriages they have. Driving them underground will just lead to more abuse.
And doesn't this covenant refer to polygamy?
Brother Peterson
Daniel Luifau
Gifford Nielsen
Kayla Jarrell
Marshall and Jill Hayes
Alicia and Ashlyn Quirantes
Tracy Kennick
Also, from Confusion over Texas polygamy group
*The following is a letter from Elder Lance B. Wickman, General Counsel of the Church to publishers of major newspapers, TV stations and magazines. It was sent out on Tuesday, June 24, 2008.
Recent events have focused the media spotlight on a polygamous sect near San Angelo, Texas, calling itself the “Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” As you probably know, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has absolutely no affiliation with this polygamous sect. Decades ago, the founders of that sect rejected the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, were excommunicated, and then started their own religion. To the best of our knowledge, no one at the Texas compound has ever been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Unfortunately, however, some of the media coverage of the recent events in Texas has caused members of the public to confuse the doctrines and members of that group and our church. We have received numerous inquiries from confused members of the public who, by listening to less than careful media reports, have come to a grave misunderstanding about our respective doctrines and faith. Based on these media reports many have erroneously concluded that there is some affiliation between the two – or even worse, that they are one and the same.
Over the years, in a careful effort to distinguish itself, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has gone to significant lengths to protect its rights in the name of the church and related matters. Specifically, we have obtained registrations for the name “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” “Mormon,” “Book of Mormon” and related trade and service marks from the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and corresponding agencies in a significant number of foreign countries.
We are confident that you are committed to avoiding misleading statements that cause unwarranted confusion and that may disparage or infringe the intellectual property rights discussed above. Accordingly, we respectfully request the following:
- As reflected in the AP Style Guide, we ask that you and your organization refrain from referring to members of that polygamous sect as “fundamentalist Mormons” or “fundamentalist” members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- We ask that, when reporting about this Texas-based polygamous sect or any other polygamous group, you avoid either explicitly or implicitly any inference that these groups are affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
- On those occasions when it may be necessary in your reporting to refer to the historical practice of plural marriage in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that you make very clear that the Church does not condone the practice of polygamy and that it has been forbidden in the Church for over one hundred years. Moreover, we absolutely condemn arranged or forced “marriages” of underage girls to anyone under any circumstances.
Stated simply, we would like to be known and recognized for whom we are and what we believe, and not be inaccurately associated with beliefs and practices that we condemn in the strongest terms. We would be grateful if you could circulate or copy this letter to your editorial staff and to your legal counsel.
We thank you for your consideration of these important matters.
Sincerely,
Lance B. Wickman
A great many here at FR were offended by the TX crackdown.
It is likely that in the present climate it is just not possible to seriously impede their practices, which IMHO opinion are inherently abusive of both women and children. That’s sad.
Um, that’s ‘flies in the ointment, the balm for the bruises’, so to speak; the LDS defenders are trying to make this switch to focus upon the nice people who are members of the LDS not the FLDS. Confusing things with facts about mormonism is not ‘fair’. Even I know a couple of fine citizens who are LDS. Can’t this be about the personalities of famous LDS members, so the underlying facts about mormonism (which is the origin of FLDS, RLDS, LDS, etc ds)are ignored?
I do not believe this is correct. Both the Church and many individual Mormons have condemned the FLDS, which is not an organization of fundamentalist LDS Church members, but rather a separate and rival organization.
1- We don't live in compounds, ranches, or enclosed areas. We live in society.
2- We welcome everyone to Temple Square in Salt Lake City, Utah. There are visitor's centers at most of the temples around the world. When a temple is build, there are free public tours where people can go and tour the temple before it is dedicated to the Lord.
3- We are not thrown out on the streets for wearing short sleeved shirts, going to movies, or disobeying our leaders. Our wives and children are not given to other men.
4- Moreover, we absolutely condemn arranged or forced “marriages” of underage girls to anyone under any circumstances.
5- We worship the Lord Jesus Christ and love and follow him with all our heart, mind, body, and strength.
6- We believe our eternal salvation comes through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, who suffered in the garden of Gethsemane, died on the cross for our sins, and was resurrected 3 days later.
Here is my favorite hymn, taken from a talk given by Elder Bruce R. McConkie. The hymn expresses my belief and love for Jesus Christ. I am so very grateful to have the knowledge of Christ and have Him in my life.
I believe in Christ; he is my King!
With all my heart to him I'll sing;
I'll raise my voice in praise and joy,
In grand amens my tongue employ.
I believe in Christ; he is God's Son.
On earth to dwell his soul did come.
He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
Good works were his; his name be praised.I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!
As Mary’s Son he came to reign
’Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
To save them from the woes of sin.
I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
Who did gain all his Father hath,
Who said to men: “Come, follow me,
That ye, my friends, with God may be.”I believe in Christ—my Lord, my God!
My feet he plants on gospel sod.
I’ll worship him with all my might;
He is the source of truth and light.
I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
From Satan’s grasp he sets me free,
And I shall live with joy and love
In his eternal courts above.I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
From him I’ll gain my fondest dream;
And while I strive through grief and pain,
His voice is heard: “Ye shall obtain.”
I believe in Christ; so come what may,
With him I’ll stand in that great day
When on this earth he comes again
To rule among the sons of men.
I come from a family of ten children. One of my sisters has nine children, another sister has six children. I love my family, even though it is chaotic when we all get together (50+ at family gatherings.)
Sounds like fun.
Does this mean the LDS Church now condemns Joseph Smith for his twelve arranged or forced "marriages" of underage girls?
You find it interesting to review this LIST of Joseph's wives. It was compiled by LDS historian Todd Compton and is generally regarded as conservative (i.e. there may be many others not included in the roster).
But there’s not ‘proof’ that Joseph Smith had sex with any of them, they were spirit marraiges don’tchaknow.
Do they really expect accuracy from the news chatterers?
OK, I looked at your list and could only come up with 7 “underage” girls. And they were mostly 16 and 17, which at the time was not an uncommon age to marry and was almost certainly not considered legally “underage.”
I think there were two 14 year olds, which is indeed too young, IMHO. Although Shakespeare’s Juliet was not quite 14.
You have to make the attempt. :) And it is easy for the lazy news chatterers to blur the distinction, you know, FLDS, LDS what is the difference to them.
There is no bait and switch. What you see is what you get. I truly don’t recognize your version of what you think our beliefs are.
Cordially,
And I am off to bed. It has been a long week. I found out today we are not renewing the contract of a co-worker on my team. Even though he hasn’t been contributing for the last few months, it is going to be very hard on him.
Bingo. And now the prosecutors are going through the courts and following the law. Just like they should have from the beginning.
“I truly don’t recognize your version of what you think our beliefs are.” If you would point out where I’ve delved into the ‘version of what you believe’ on this thread, perhaps we could segment that out of the discussion.
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