Posted on 06/20/2008 6:51:09 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
OTTAWA (Reuters) - Republican John McCain defended the North American Free Trade Agreement in Canada on Friday during an unusual foreign trip as a U.S. presidential candidate to draw a contrast with Barack Obama, his Democratic rival in the November election.
McCain, an Arizona senator who has wrapped up his party's White House nomination, said the trip was not a political one and declined to mention Obama by name during remarks before a group of Canadian business leaders and policy makers.
--snip--
Trade is one of several issues that has come to the forefront of the U.S. presidential campaign as Americans worry about the sluggish U.S. economy and rising fuel costs.
Obama appeared to back away somewhat from his earlier remarks in an interview with Fortune magazine released this week. "Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified," he said in the interview. "I'm not a big believer in doing things unilaterally."
"I believe in free trade. I think that all countries can prosper as a consequence of free trade," Obama told reporters in Jacksonville, Florida on Friday, adding he also thought the United States could be a better negotiator on behalf of American workers and for environmental standards.
--snip--
McCain called for Canada and the United States to more closely align their energy policies. Canada is a top U.S. energy supplier.
--snip--
He repeated his desire to close the Guantanamo Bay prison facility and said he would forge a foreign policy as president that paid attention to allies' opinions.
"I intend as well to listen carefully when close allies offer their counsel," he said. "Even when they don't volunteer their advice, I'll ask for it and I'll seek it out."
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
This stuff sickens me. Why in hell does an American Presidential candidate waste his time going to Canada? Why do both candidates accept foreign monies for their campaigns?
The Presidency of the US of A is NOT an international matter - never has been and never should be. One more reason to venture in this election with trepidation and hold ALLL options open.
Good. Obama’s wrong on this... The US constitutes 74% of Canada’s imports, and 86% of their exports. And we are their number 1 consumer of energy. Strengthening trade ties with Canada is a great positive all around.
I understand this. My question still stands - why don’t people see this and go ‘huh?’ Next stop, Europe, China and generous points elsewhere. Why not have the entire world elect our President?
Canada has a motherload of oil, and culturally is the the closest thing on this planet to America.
While there may be parts of Canada which are soft, the oil sand of Alberta may be the last place for rugged individualism in North America.
Let's face it. There have been only two sports teams named "Oilers". The Houston Texas NFL team, and the Edmonton Alberta NHL team.
Plus, Alberta is the new focal point in the battle for free speech in the Anglosphere. The Western Standard was published in Alberta.
I really think Alberta in the first decade of the 21st century in a watershed like California was in the 1960s.
In the world scene, Canada matters.
“I really think Alberta in the first decade of the 21st century in a watershed like California was in the 1960s.”
California was a big loss for truth, justice and the American way.
He’s not going to Canada to court dollars or votes, but to symbolically express his support for free trade with that country, and show he can be a statesman.
For better or worse, Canada and the US are heavily dependent on each other. The closer our executive or potential executives can bring our nations together economically the better BOTH are.
Personally, I like this move. It reinforces his commitment to free trade with Canada, and by saying in Canada to Canadians it’ll carry a bit more weight, too.
More globalist pandering from you? Enough already.
Pandering? Because I want to see us maintain a relationship with our neighbor that is good for the US?
Do you know we import more oil from Canada than any other country? Do you know they are our number 1 export market? Is it pandering to reinforce that relationship?
Let me guess - you support either Ron Paul or Pat Buchanan.
"Let me guess"
Because advocation of independece in foreign affairs you must be a kook or fringe isolationist? You can play better than that.
Independece?
Name me a successful town in the United States that is booming with no jobs, or low paying jobs? Perhaps you like that but its not a good idea. I understand its good for the companies, but not good for the United States.
Can you rephrase that question?
So you think stopping free trade is good, we shouldn’t work to keep free trade (and is IS bidirectional - no tariffs into Canada, no tariffs from Canada).
Let’s go ahead and put tariffs on the oil we import from Canada (which is more than from Saudi Arabia, or Mexico, or Venezuela). Great for our economy and consumer to pay even more for oil right now.
Let’s go ahead and put tariffs on the lumber we buy from them (they are one of our largest suppliers of finished lumber). Heck, the housing market won’t mind another 5-7% increase in the price of finished plywood, OSB, or dimensional lumber.
Let’s go ahead and have them put tariffs on cars, as they are our number one market for automotive exports. I’m sure the factory line workers in Detroit and Dearborn won’t mind losing even more sales as the price of cars in Canada jump another 10%.
Sure, that’s all fine...
Look, some countries you don’t want to have free trade with. No problem. But Canada? CANADA? Not only our neighbor, but an excellent trade partner, and one who is more aligned with our interests - foreign AND domestic - than any other nation? One with whom we have true and open free trade?
If anyone should get free trade, it would be Canada. The fact Obama is talking about changing it shows just how out of touch he is with economic realities, and the true state of international affairs.
Other than paranoid delusion about some shadowy government trying to create an NAU and the Amero, what is the downside to free trade with Canada? Because I just listed a bunch of upsides.
Oh, and endthematrix - independence of foreign affairs? So now trade with a foreign nation is being dependent on others? Was not the US started - and flourished - as a trade culture? Were we not looking for freedom - economic freedom - to export and trade as we desired, without excess taxation?
Learn a little history about the country. We were founded on the principles of economic freedom and trade. That’s what we’re about.
Show me one country that’s flourishing on independence from trade. Just one. Then I’ll concede your point.
Oh, and I think you want to ask me to name a city that is thriving on service-industry type jobs, not “high skilled” manufacturing jobs, right?
Las Vegas, Nevada.
Palm Springs, California.
Redmond, Washington.
Charlotte, North Carolina.
Scottsdale, Arizona.
Need I go on?
So it is your opinion that we should be 100% self-supporting, totally independent of other countries, right?
How do we get neodymium magnets, or samarium, or alnico magnets (all used in MILITARY applications, as well as consumer). Cobalt really isn’t here in the US. We need it from overseas.
How do we get all the oil we need RIGHT NOW (knowing that we import 13 million barrels a day)? Give us 15 years we may be able to get our own domestic production to that level, but what about the intervening 15 years?
Like fruit? I hope you don’t want any from September to March. You know, grapes, bananas, peaches, pineapples, and the like.
And cars, I’m sure you don’t mind paying 30% more for your cars since the price of steel will escalate.
Not to mention seeing the price of those artificial hips, surgical implants and tools jump 50X since titanium deposits are overseas. And the military and aerospace industries will be shut down because they are critically dependent on this material.
Oh, and good luck with batteries - back to lead acid! No more nickel metal hydride, because we can’t even get the nickel from Canada, who has most of the reserves in the world, and we have almost none.
Want some more examples? Because so far I’ve shut down the military, the aerospace industry, the automotive industry, the economy in general, hampered medical, and decimated our food supply. I guess there’s still religion and textiles to be destroyed...
Yes, we can be independent on some things, but on everything? Are you serious?
Las Vegas, Nevada (Casino Capital of the US maybe the world? Have you ever been there. There are plenty of jobs)
Palm Springs, California (29 Palms... A huge Marine Corps Training Facility). Close to L.A. (Second largest city in the country. Yeah no jobs... LOL!)
Redmond, Washington. (Home of Microsoft. Need I say anymore?)
Charlotte, North Carolina. (Banking Capital of the United States. Yeah no jobs too...LOL!)
Scottsdale, Arizona (Rich man's playground...Yeah no real jobs).
When did I ever say we should not trade? We traded pre NAFTA, GATT, etc....... The problem is the greedy pigs that are not happy with 10 cars they need more. $5 an hour is too much for them. They want slave wage, and because we now by cheap $hit from Mexico and China. We get things (that we never had to worry about before) like salmonella in Tomatoes or lead in the Toys. Oh and China (are so called friends) do not have the same business rules as they do over here. So companies like Home Depot and McDonald's are getting a quick lesson about Chinese business. For instance, you can have McDonald's on one side of the road, and say McWong across the street. McWong’s can sell everything that is on McDonald's menu for a lower price (because that is what free trade is all about right???) and that is not considered in China illegal like it would be here in the USA.
Furthermore, since were talking about the China. Since free trade is so wonderful. Why don't we trade our all of our American Servicemen for Chinese. All you have to is give them a bag of rice a day, and that is a whole lot cheaper than what we have now? Yeah free trade is great! LOL!
I am still waiting for you to name me a successful town that is booming with no jobs. So far the 5 cities you listed have jobs. I am still waiting...
You need to learn to read better... What was the title of this thead? Oh yeah:
McCain promotes NAFTA in Canadian trip
Yep, no China in there, and as far as I can figure out, NAFTA stands for North American Free Trade Agreement, and China's not quite in North America now, is it?
So you're going to slam McCain for promoting free trade with Canada because you have a beef with China. Well, isn't that special!
You're asking a nonsensical question. Show me someone who breathes without lungs. Makes about the same amount of sense.
However, I don't have a problem with McCain voicing support for NAFTA and free trade with Canada; apparently you do. So how about YOU list a town that has crashed because of NAFTA. How has NAFTA hurt the US? How many jobs have been lost because of NAFTA (lost, not just moved to different positions - actual people eliminated and never again employed).
Bottom line - NAFTA has been great for the US, and we are rightfully served by maintaining strong economic ties to Canada. Apparently that is of great distress to you. Why?
Oh, and remember this is CANADA - where they make Molson, and say "eh" a lot. Not China.
I never said such thing as well.
But he has a hard time speaking to Conservatives, because he’s too busy speaking to La Raza, GB, and Canada.
"And there is a tooth fairy and there is an Easter Bunny." Ross Perot to VP Gore on Larry King's NAFTA Debate
I'm surprised you haven't invoked Smoot-Hawley, Al.
"In 1987, before Mexico started lowering its taxes at the border, its tariffs, we had a $5.7 billion trade deficit with Mexico. After five years, the goods we make and sell into Mexico, the volume has been growing twice as fast as the goods they make and sell in the United States. So, last year we had a $5.4 billion trade surplus. Now, if that trend continued for another two years, and NAFTA will, by removing those barriers, greatly accelerate it, we will have a larger trade surplus with Mexico than with any country in the entire world." -Algore
What is it today? What is the current US trade balance with Canada?
POTUS Clinton threatened the failure to pass NAFTA would allow a flood of Mexican illegal aliens in our country. Has that ended?
True. But you have failed to heed our Founder's warnings and advice.
"Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing (with powers so disposed, in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the government to support them) conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary, and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that, by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more. There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard."
"Other than paranoid delusion about some shadowy government trying to create an NAU and the Amero, what is the downside to free trade with Canada?"
"Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow-citizens) the jealousy of a free people ought to be constantly awake, since history and experience prove that foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. But that jealousy to be useful must be impartial; else it becomes the instrument of the very influence to be avoided, instead of a defense against it."
(I guess 'Ol George was paranoid and delusional of a conspiracy)
"But Canada? CANADA?..."
"Excessive partiality for one foreign nation and excessive dislike of another cause those whom they actuate to see danger only on one side, and serve to veil and even second the arts of influence on the other. Real patriots who may resist the intrigues of the favorite are liable to become suspected and odious, while its tools and dupes usurp the applause and confidence of the people, to surrender their interests." Washington's Farewell Address 1796
There is a lot more than just lower cost. For instance, what I mentioned lower standards in goods. Think about this we have high paying jobs that are going overseas now. Accounting jobs, computer jobs, manufacturing, telecommunications, etc...just to name a few. At the same we have illegals immigration that is flowing over our borders. Basically these people are working jobs at either below minimum wage (the construction industry) or at a minimum wage level (think of who you see more and more at the restaurants these days). Oh and most of that money is not taxed, and goes back to their home countries. So thees illegals are now paying for things they use such as schools, welfare, hospitals, etc...
So basically we are exporting high paying jobs, and importing cheap labor that is exporting tax free dollars to the illegals home countries. Furhtermore, we have a government that spends more than it takes in. Thus the dollar continues to decline.
If we continue at this pace, then what will happen is investors will no longer put their money in our markets. It is just that simple.
Look when you look at anything. Think about it from every angle not one or two. I know the other thing that free traders love to say besides lower cost. They love to say innovation will save us. Well innovation will not if we just send all our innovations overseas. So there is no point.
Look what is good for companies bottom line of a stock report is not necessarily good for the United States...
It's a $5 billion a month deficit. Subtract out the oil we buy from them (1.3 Mbpd), and it's a slight, $270 million surplus. We buy their natural resources, they buy our finished goods. Isn't that what you'd want?
With regard to the extensive posts about favoritism, is it favoritism to open markets mutually? If so, then no markets should be opened that way, right?
OK, China, Mexico, Chile, even Spain I can see. Have you been to Canada recently? How about the UK? Germany? How are their standards substantially different from ours?
Our trade deficit with Canada becomes a trade surplus if you eliminate their oil exports to us. That means those expensive jobs you talk about? They're not being exported to Canada. Rather, Canada is effective importing them from us - we just happen to buy more of their natural resources from them. But they buy more durable goods and services from us.
You think I'm missing the point; rather, it is you who are missing the basic facts. If you're going to criticize free trade, choose a country OTHER than Canada - they're about as close to being a clone of the US as you'll find world-wide, philosophically, economically, culturally, and linguistically.
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