Posted on 06/17/2008 7:43:21 PM PDT by Kaslin
The other day in southwestern Fresno County, a poor part of Central California, I talked with a number of folks at a rural gas station. Most drove second- and third-hand pickups, large cast-off sedans or used SUVs.
Their general complaint was twofold: They didn't have the cash to buy a new fuel-efficient Honda or Toyota.
And they were now spending a day or two of their wages just to fuel their cars for their long rural commutes.
But I also fill up three hours away on the San Francisco peninsula near Stanford University, where I work.
High-priced hybrid cars and new, more-efficient SUVs are everywhere. Mass transit is available and crammed.
After listening to these quite different motorists, I can confirm an obvious rule about energy use: The wealthier and better educated seem less concerned about the price of gas.
Indeed, from my informal conversations at two very different gas stations, I would go even further: The wealthy, particularly those who are politically liberal, also like that high-priced gas translates into less burning of fossil fuels by others and will help accelerate research into alternative energies.
(Excerpt) Read more at ibdeditorials.com ...
Poor people do.
Does anyone have the Captain Obvious pic?
In California, high gas prices cut down on traffic on the I-405. Of course I usually fly down to Los Angeles on my company’s plane.
Rich people often don’t even fill up their own cars. Why would they care what it costs?
And IMO, if they are rich, perhaps they are worried about bigger things, maybe some have high pressure jobs and businesses where their expertise and skills are needed to pretty much always be right.
Re: environmentalism. It has been pointed out by those who know about these things that free world oil companies are answerable to shareholders and enviro groups and go to great lengths to protect the environment in their drilling.
Whereas, state-owned, turd world oil ministries are answerable to no one and don’t give a damn about the environment or the people living in it.
Something to think about besides terrorist and tyrant enriching when we have to buy more from overseas.
Last year, after a year's search, I found what I was looking for: a beater Chevy S-10 pick up truck. 4 cylinder, 5-speed manual, no add ons like AC to run down mileage. I redid the body last summer, rebuilt the engine in the fall and put new tires and exhaust on it. Total cost: $1,800.00. I get 34 MPG.
The best article on gas prices I have ever read
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html
That’s the funny thing about our current predicament. The lib/dems are aching to tax the hell out of gas and energy. Obama had his little freudian slip when he remarked that he wished the price of gas had gone up more slowly.
They want to make it expensive as hell but they can’t nose-thumb the angry electorate like that so they yammer on about “alternate” energy sources and go through amazing logical contortions to explain why more domestic drilling wouldn’t do us any good.
Alas, the public is getting a mite tired of these antics. Blaming the evil oil companies for everything got old fast. Now the “speculators” meme will buy them maybe two weeks.
McCain is at least showing signs of wising up.
I guess the liberals wouldn’t care until the housekeeper hits them up for a buck more per hour. At which time, they’ll dump that one and import some more.
I always like VDH, but he must have something better to write about than stating the obvious:
“The wealthy, particularly those who are politically liberal, also like that high-priced gas translates into less burning of fossil fuels by others and will help accelerate research into alternative energies”
-Well, no suprise! It doesn’t hurt the wealthy hardly at all. And many of those same wealthy firmly believe that the era of the gasoline powered internal combustion engine is over, stick a fork in it.
“One is fairness to the poor and middle class. Like it or not, radical environmentalism (and those behind it who provide the lobbying, funding and influence to block energy legislation) appeals to an elite not all that worried when gas prices rise or electricity rates go up — since fossil energy use goes down.”
- The fact that something benefits the poor or rich more does not make it intrinsically right or wrong.
“But a paradox is that most environmentalists think of themselves as egalitarians.”
-Doubtful. Most of the lefties I know regard themselves as part of the elite.
“No one is talking of more domestic drilling to give our SUVs and Hummers one last gasp at $2-a-gallon gas.”
- Don’t agree, this is not the only board I frequent where relatively inexpensive gas and large, powerful vehicles are considered a normal element of the American lifestyle, and those who question it attacked. I’ve seen people who think the era of the recreational burning of fossil fuels is (or should be ) over asked “why do you hate America”.
As usual, VDH is a supremely logical, pertinent, prescient and readable writer; I do think he’s setting up a few straw men in this article, although 75% of it is dead on.
Bump for later reading!
Golly gee willikers, I thought that liberals cared about the average Joe in who works hard and tries to provide for his family.
Are you trying to tell me that they care more about the carribou and the trees than they do about you? Do I need a sarcasm tag?
“Sometimes you think yer crazy,
But you know yer only mad,
Sometimes yer better off not knowing,
How much you’ve been had.”
-”The Devil’s Been Busy”, Travelling Wilburys
Just heard today in the car, that the US has more oil than all the countries of the Middle East put together. This was a government outfit that made this statement but I don’t remember which one.
McCain can win the election if he focuses his concern on the average Joe.
If he drills ANWR, drills the Gulf Coast, advocates Nuclear Power and pushes clean-burn coal technology, he will have the election in the bag.
Hey McCain interns!!!!
Asking Governor Palin to join the ticket sure as heck would help also!
People have to work a day each week to pay taxes, but the media isn’t making a lot of hay about that.
That was very interesting. So the Republicans and Democrats are both involved in the rules changes that let the oil futures be traded w/o regulation.
One interesting thing - it said that Goldman Sachs fund has tripled in 3 years and I read the other day the same thing about Obama’s portfolio. Hmmmm
Maybe that’s why he likes high gas prices.
Bottom line, seems that D.C. has sold us out.
Actually, I just realized, the 106th Congress was Republican. So why aren’t the Democrats screaming that the speculators were allowed by the Republicans to do this to us?
Nevertheless, its kinda cool seeing the guidettes and rich-in-credit immigrants having to get rid of their a-s ugly Escalades. Remember, the bigger the car, the smaller (and more annoying) the women.
Yeah, that’s just great. Unless, like me, you want to give your kids the same if not better life you had been given.
Pretty much makes me damned mad that what I have to pass on to them is world that’s a shithole.
My tiny violin is playing my heart bleeds for these people.
No one put a gun to their heads to force them to buy large SUVs. Small cars were still available. They made their bed now they have to sleep in it. Market forces kept oil prices down, now they are driving them up. The rednecks who wanted a big car and did not think about what it might cost to fill it up are going to have deal with it. Cheap gas is not a God-given right.
If you need a large vehicle for work then you need to factor in the cost of driving it. If you buy a large house you need to think about the cost of heating it.
Why are gas prices suddenly making conservatives whine like liberals?
No, one more broke person means one more person who will be dependent on the government.
The best article on gas prices I have ever read
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0502.html
When prices rise slowly, people have the time to adjust. But this price hike has been so precipitous and so sudden, that there hasn't been time to adjust. And it's so needless. Offshore and ANWAR drilling could have been commenced years ago and we'd be reaping the rewards of that now.
There are many reasons besides just preference why people require a large SUV/truck (job related, towing, traction/safety in bad weather and on rough roads, etc.) But I'm sure you know that.
About 10 years ago, I read an article that said the Serria Club had some land in LA. that had been willed to them and they permited drilling for oil or gas and were happy to take the royalties. Next time you pay $4-or-$5 for gas think of them.
I am not a redneck but I did buy a truck in 2005. Did I know at the time that it would cost me more to fill it? Yes, I did. I went from a 1989 Mazda to a GMC truck. I live on five acres. We live in the country. It is a working truck for the property. The closest grocery store is now 7 miles away, thank God, it used to be more. I could fill my tank for $40.00, which I did factor in. What I didn’t factor in was that it would now cost me over a hundred to fill it. My bad. Yes, I could’ve bought a small car like what I had, but it’s hard to get a yard of potting soil or mulch in the trunk. We mulch everything so we can conserve on water. We also have our own garden so we don’t have to wonder what kind of chemicals or worse is all over it, it’s also cheaper to grow it than to buy it.
But the most fun part of bitching about the cost of fuel is the price of diesel. My husband and I laugh hysterically every week that we pay $4000.00 for the fuel. He should also downsize because his big rig is too big and we should have factored in the fact that we should have seen diesel passing the price of regular gas, even though it goes through less processing. Yup, when he got his truck diesel was less than gas, go figure. First they said it was supply and demand, and well, that argument fell flat. Then they said only so many refineries produce “low sulfur” diesel. Now I’m waiting for the next excuse. Do you not understand that you’re paying for the high cost of diesel? My husband gets 5.5 mpg on his truck. Maybe when you have to pay seven or eight dollars for a gallon of milk you might see where others are coming from. If I didn’t know any better, which I don’t, I’d say you live in an urban area. I try to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes before I start critizing them.
Obviously my statement was not directed toward you personally. And you seem to be quite thoughtful about the entire situation. Moreover, I emphathize with individual stories. Of course I feel bad for people who are hurting and recognize that it can be tough. At the same time, it is really a social phenomenon.
Realisitically, I am forced to ask the question why you live so far from a store. Ultiamtely you COULD live in the city too. The choice to live in a rural place is your own.
Indeed, I do live near a city and being in Germany that also means I have public transport. Since gas here cost $6 a gallon even a few years ago (now it is about $8.50) I made the choice to live close to work. In fact I live close enough to ride my bicycle. I could also take a bus or train.
I do not have a huge house, but it is comfortable enough. I have one car that is a modest-sized station wagon (an Opel which is GM).
I have seen the price of food and other things rise considerably and this is a large part a result of fuel costs. I really feel bad for those who this is hurting. But, I just have a tough time feeling so bad for people whose suffering is a result of the decision they made about which automobile to purchase.
I suppose Ultimately all those rural people could “choose” to live in the city like you “realistically” suggest.
Then you would then run out of food, clothing and shelter materials though. So thats not very “realistic” after all.
Guess it’s not much of a “choice” then either.
Then would come the inevitable riots, mass chaos caused by food shortages and loss of housing. Leading to death, destruction and a break down of “civilized society” /sarc in the “cities” of the world.
Then I suppose one could say, “The choice to live in a citified place was your own”.
No, there is no choice to live in rural area. It is a necessity. If not for them, for us. Without the people there, we cannot survive here. (I live in a city)
You cannot farm and drive a GeoMetro as your only means of transport. It simply cannot happen. The multiple trips alone to haul bag grain out to put into the planter in the spring would negate the MPG savings for having that vehicle. You cannot buy hybrid electric farm equipment as far as I know and even if you could, I am sure it would be cost prohibitive to the point of bankruptcy for most.
You cannot get your beef to the slaughter house with a Opel, they just don’t like riding in those for some reason; space being an issue and all.
Also as far as I can tell, a S10 does not do a very efficient job of getting the harvest out of your field and to the grain elevator.
I’ve also never seen someone try to cut down a field of milo with a retrofitted Hyundai compact.
Another thing that would be unrealistic to expect is a stop and go store on the corner of every farm bloc, a Wally World at every MFA and so forth. If so, there would be no land to be had to farm, to raise cattle so on. Ensuring the survival of the species depends on rural areas prospering and the land to be had in the first place, not being paved over. With that need for unpaved land will also come longer trips to wherever it is you need to go to get things of course. It is a must, a necessity, not a choice. Cost prohibitive behavior like buying a vehicle for every different use would put the rural back even more then now where they have to double up uses on what they have to scrape by. They could just start to charge us “city folks” more, but that again would have a steady downward impact on all that depend on what they provide. (see earlier diatribe for results of that)
I hope you see the ridiculousness of your lack of “sympathy” for the “rural” folks now.
I know a whole slew of people that think the same thing as you just expressed here. I don’t blame them though, its simply a matter of not thinking it through very well. I would hope that after setting down and taking as second to reconsider their opinion, that they would see the faulty logic at play in their previous conclusions.
Plus, to Mr./Mrs. Rural people. Thank you, for helping to keep me in clothes, shelter and food at halfway affordable prices. I hope things get better for your’s very soon so things get better for mine.
It is not only the rich that do not care about the cost of gasoline, but neither do the millions of democrat voters living in large cities that either do not own an automobile or drive very few miles. They rely on mass transit that is subsidized by the gasoline taxes paid by those who live outside the huge metropolitan areas that must use many gallons of gas each day to get to and from work. These poor working class souls are largely rational thinking conservatives. They are paying for the stupidity of our politicians.
>The majority of the commodities you are speaking of are produced by a small number of individuals working for large corporations. Just like an oil plantform is "rural" it is perfectly conceivable that workers could take shifts producing food, chopping wood (lumberjacks don't live in the woods anyway), animal husbandry and mining. They could then go back to lives in more urban settings.
People who live in cities have higher levels of productivity. This is an indisputable fact.
I am not advocating this of course. I grew up in a rural community and recognize the huge intangible value that cannot be recreated in an urban setting. Concurrently, my heart does not bleed for people living in rural setting who bought vehicles with operting costs they cannot afford.
By the way, your "sky would fall" without rural citizens scenario is a romantic version worthy of a French politician.
Hi again ERF. Sorry it took me so long to respond to your comments. I had a minor accident and was laid up for a few days. Have you visited the states before? If you have you should be well aware public transit doesn’t span but the urban areas, and most of the USA is not urban. Unlike Germany which is quite small compared to many states.
The food you talk of that comes from these big corporations, comes from somewhere else to begin with. Can you grow crops in cites? I’d like to see that. The clothing also has an origination other than these big corporations. The shirt you buy that says 100% cotton is grown in cotton fields in the countryside. Things grown for housing (like a stud) is grown, not in the city but in the country. Did you know a wood stud comes from a tree? Produce is grown in the country, not the city. You should visit California, you will find there are alot of farms growing these things in the country, not the city. So without the farmer you city folks are sunk, so much for productivity, huh? This is just some food (forgive the pun) for thought. My parents have a farm in North Dakota and they don’t work for any corporation. And last, but not least, the only thing that’s indisputable is your ignorance and cluelessness as to how life works.
I could’ve chosen to live in Germany but why when the unemployment rate is high. So much for your big cities. Germany is a beautiful country, that I don’t dispute. But with the beauty comes too much baggage.
How productive can these cities be without the “small” individual? The sky WOULD fall without those “small” individuals.
I lived 20 years in the Los Angeles area, an urban area. You can have those urban areas. Too much crime, too many people and too much traffic. We chose quality of life rather than quantity. We left there 30 years ago and never looked back. But you are wrong on so many issues. Come and walk a mile in my shoes. Our whole family live on the same property. My parents are older now and not able to maintain it, so we all pitch in and do what needs to get done. It is rather old-fashioned of us, but, oh well. We take care of each other and aren’t relying on the government to do it.
For those elitist leftists that WANT higher gas prices,
it’s a matter of expanding the difference in lifestyles between themselves and the common person.
The “commoner” has to curb his lifestyle when it becomes too expensive to travel, to fly, and to take vacation.
Thanks for your comment s Njadb.
In reponse:
- the percentage of workers required to produce agricultural goods has dropped dramatically over the last century as a result of industrialized farming techninques. Production of food requires very few people and only a handful of specialized workers. Rural communities are not really necessary for this production to continue - only a few workers on large-scale industrialized farms. Not your French ideal, but perfectly possible and more productive than the present.
- Rural communities generally are a sponge on the cities in terms of handouts from teh states. Farmers take huge subsidies (you mentioned cotton which is one of the biggest leeches). People in rural communities tend to take more out of the system than they put in due to low productivity. More urban populations would mean lower taxes.(I dont have time at the moment, but could provide the statistics for you)
- West German unemployment is at the same rate as the US, but the statistics are measured differently. Bavaria has an unemployment rate below 2%. I think you stopped reading about Germany in the 1990s. Things are different now.
- In addition German unemployment is the same as US levels and probably lower if you consider that America imprisons about 2 million working age men and employs several hundred thousand to watch over them - a large contributor to otherwise diminshing employment opportunities in rural areas.
The major human mega-trend has been to move from being hunter/gatehrer to farmer to urban dweller. Each stage has meant a huge gain in productivity and wealth. Those who are not essential to have in a rural environment for agricutlure or natural resource collection are simply clinging to a way of life that sucks from the extra productivity of those living in an urban environment.
Had you chosen to live in Germany, you might find yourself in a much more stable and happier situation. On the other hand, maybe not. . .
I have definitely enjoyed chatting with you and respect and apprecitate your viewpoints.
PS Bomb Liechtenstein!
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