Posted on 06/13/2008 9:31:37 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy
I understand the panic mode you Big Government folks are in, those of us who have said this is a reuslt of an out of control tyrannical agency have been proven correct as time passes.
You don’t have a prayer of stampeding me in joining the supporters of government child abuse.
“You don’t have a prayer of stampeding me in joining the supporters of government child abuse.”
What I keep saying is that you claim the CPS broke the law, and I state that they didn’t.
They were following the ruling of the Judge, so if you merely want to point fingers and assign blame, you should start there.
I would be curious to know how you determined that SeaHawkFan has not committed fraud and that there is no evidence of such.
It was good enough for CPS. The difference is that I'm not advocating and implementing kidnapping.
I would be curious to know why you would even imply that poster has committed a crime?
I wasn’t aware that CPS taking children under a court order was called ‘kidnapping’.
Must be some new law no one knows anything about.
“Despite the immunity laws protecting the responsible authorities, there is hopefully, a way for the victims to receive just compensation.”
I think the State should compensate the FLDS adults who drove and picked up their own children, for their mileage, gas, and lodgings.
However, I am not the state.
Keep reading the headlines.
I imagine you’ll be in denial, members of the Church of Big Government often are, but that description will appear in headlines.
I didn't. I simply suggested that he could be prosecuted if evidence exists; which is exactly what that poster suggested about the FLDS. Is there something inherently unfair about mentioning such a possibility in the absence of such evidence?
Please point me to the law that allows CPS to grab a 37-yo woman and take her into custody.
It seems I missed it.
It also seems that CPS did, indeed, break the law. Unless you can point to a law that authorized them to take that woman, or any of the other adults?
“Is there something inherently unfair about mentioning such a possibility in the absence of such evidence?”
No. It was just rude, and pointless, and merely an emotional knee jerk response to his/her original comment, because you seem to insist that the State of Texas, in following the LAW and keeping the evidence a ‘secret’, if you will, until it has been fully assessed, and used openly in a court of law, means there is no evidence.
I understand the idea that no one is guilty yet, but it seems those who keep stating, “innocent until proven guilty” keep declaring the CPS, the Judge, the Texas Rangers, the DPS, and the Sheriff, guilty without even so much as a trial.
Then, they declare the the whole FLDS case should just disappear under the rug, because they have not been privy to ‘evidence’, which they cannot legally see at this time.
Pretty simple.
Happy Father’s Day to you!
I think that one must allow for the concept that there is some missing information here.
So far, this woman has not sued, nor gone to trial, and so we haven’t heard the evidence.
What we have heard, and deserves some consideration, is that the women and children were being divided up, and some of the ‘adult’ mothers decided to lie to stay with the children.
And this didn’t happen all ONE DAY. The taking of the children occurred over at least a THREE DAY period.
At some point, the Judge ruled that all the children should be taken, and the CPS was to ‘go’ with what they had, as far as a determination of ages.
We have heard that there were three different kinds of ID bracelets put on the women and children, and that they kept switching them.
We have heard the women would have the children keep switching places, in families.
We have heard that the women would change their names, or give different names for their ‘husband’, each time asked.
When the Judge ordered all the children taken, no further ‘proof of age’ was being considered by CPS.
Any ‘adult’ that got into the ‘children’ group (no matter whose fault) had to then have the Judge make any alteration to being taken into protective custody.
The CPS could not accept the DL and BC from anyone, after the Judge gave her order.
There has been speculation that the FLDS members may have intentionally worked on getting an adult misidentified, just to ensure they could complicate the case, and try to file lawsuits.
I think that is far-fetched, but I wasn’t there.
So, there seem to be many ‘ways’ this could have occurred, and good explanations for why no one would accept her “ID” until she went before the Judge.
So, If CPS refused to take her “ID” because she already had id’d herself as a minor, or switched name tags, and then at the last minute tried to get out of it, then CPS is not at fault for following the Judge’s order.
Think about it. Why would CPS risk taking a 37 year old woman, during such a high visibility case?
All of the allegations of misidentification, etc, are from CPS.
One article summed it up nicely - CPS didn’t see what they expected to see, so they assumed everybody was lying.
Why would CPS do that? Because they are “true believers”, in their cult of “we are from the government, and we are here to help.”
But, the only lies that have been proven to be so in this case, were all told by CPS.
All of them.
So how can we believe CPS, when they claim that they were lied to?
I, at least, have issues with suspension of disbelief.
And happy father’s day to you, too. ;)
P.S. Even if the descriptions of the behavior of the FLDS women, children, and men (as far as trying to confuse the CPS) is absolutely true, it does not mean nor prove they were doing so because they have committed crimes.
I think there are those who are covering up crimes, and not just child abuse, and that they have used the FLDS and Mormon faith as a shield to hide behind, and use the FLDS members like the terrorists who shoot at soldiers while hiding behind children.
Then they run.
Just like many of the ‘inner circle’ of Warren Jeffs have already done.
Deserted their members, and went into hiding to protect them from prosecution, leaving those members to deal with the law, and keep their mouth shut (if they even ‘know’ what their leaders were doing, which apparently most don’t)
“But, the only lies that have been proven to be so in this case, were all told by CPS.”
What ‘lies’ did CPS ‘tell’ ?
You may be entirely correct. I strongly suspect you are at least partially correct.
That is what the ongoing investigation is for.
So, if there is SECRET evidence that FLDS has committed welfare fraud then there is nothing unfair, rude, or pointless about commenting that they could be prosecuted for it? Does this assessment change if it turns out that there is no such secret evidence? And if so, then doesn't that create a burden on those who make comments concerning secret evidence?
Is there no secret evidence concerning posters on this forum?
They identified the 37 yo as 17, on legal papers, after she had presented proof of her age. Just for an example.
Yep.
I’m trying to be patient for the day when both sides of the story are revealed, and the evidence, or lack of.
Then we might know ‘the truth’. Whatever that is.
“They identified the 37 yo as 17, on legal papers, after she had presented proof of her age.”
Was that on the first day, second day, or third day?
Or was it at the Coliseum?
Did it have anything to do with her changing ID tags with another girl?
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