BIG Earthquake in Japan Just Now! Predicted in Advance by Two Minutes (Live)

Japanese news; direct experience ^ | 14 June 2008 | AmericanInTokyo

[Quix]

Have you run across the evidence that most Japanese are of Jewish descent (I think except for that odd tribe up north)? Fascinating postulation.

[Quix]

Amen! thanks.

[Alia]

Wow! I’d not heard about this. Made my day! Thank you for digging this up and posting the url. I love hearing and observing the arms of the Divine working through mere mortals!

[patriciaruth]

Thank you for this terrific information! I’ll roll off the bed between the bed and the dresser in the next earthquake.

Forget about standing in a doorway! Why were we always told that in the past?

[Alia]

I am so truly gratified and elated to know this. Growing up in Japan taught me things which I have passed onto my children. Good things.

[Munz]

They have had 13 more all above 4.5 as of 0930 est 06/14/08
The aftershocks can’t be helping anything.

I think that this will go on for a while.

[Munz]

Eastern Honshu, Japan

roughly

65 km (40 miles) SW of Morioka, Honshu, Japan
70 km (40 miles) SE of Akita, Honshu, Japan
115 km (75 miles) N of Sendai, Honshu, Japan
410 km (255 miles) N of TOKYO, Japan

[Alia]

Excellent! Thank you for posting that.

) If you are in bed during the night and an earthquake occurs, simply roll off the bed.

True.

I understand the outrage the man has over the students found crushed under their desks. However, in such a situation, the best the students MAY be able to do is lay in fetal position between two desks -- creating the brace, and airspace should the building collapse. The older advice of darting under desks and such -- was during a period of history in which WINDOWS were in large usage. And in that case, diving under a desk could mean averting a glass shard maiming or killing a person.

[gitmo]

American Red Cross response to "Triangle of Life" by Doug Copp

Sent from

Rocky Lopes, PhD

Manager, Community Disaster Education

American Red Cross National Headquarters

---

Recently it has been brought to my attention that an email from Doug Copp, titled "Triangle of Life," is making its rounds again on the Internet. "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" is CORRECT, accurate, and APPROPRIATE for use in the United States for Earthquake safety. Mr. Copp's assertions in his message that everyone is always crushed if they get under something is incorrect.

---

Recently, the American Red Cross became aware of a challenge to the earthquake safety advice "Drop, Cover, and Hold On." This is according to information from Mr. Doug Copp, the Rescue Chief and Disaster Manager of American Rescue Team International (a private company not affiliated with the U.S. Government or other agency.) He says that going underneath objects during an earthquake [as in children being told to get under their desks at school] is very dangerous, and fatal should the building collapse in a strong earthquake. He also states that "everyone who gets under a doorway when a building collapses is killed." He further states that "if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, to roll out of bed next to it," and he also says that "If an earthquake happens while you are watching television and you cannot easily escape by getting out the door or window, then lie down and curl up in the fetal position next to a sofa, or large chair." These recommendations are inaccurate for application in the United States and inconsistent with information developed through earthquake research. Mr. Copp based his statements on observations of damage to buildings after an earthquake in Turkey. It is like "apples and oranges" to compare building construction standards, techniques, engineering principles, and construction materials between Turkey and the United States.

We at the American Red Cross have studied the research on the topic of earthquake safety for many years. We have benefited from extensive research done by the California Office of Emergency Services, California Seismic Safety Commission, professional and academic research organizations, and emergency management agencies, who have also studied the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" during the shaking of an earthquake. Personally, I have also benefited from those who preceded me in doing earthquake education in California since the Field Act was passed in 1933.

What the claims made by Mr. Copp of ARTI, Inc., does not seem to distinguish is that the recommendation to "drop, cover, and hold on!" is a U.S.-based recommendation based on U.S. Building Codes and construction standards. Much research in the United States has confirmed that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" has saved lives in the United States. Engineering researchers have demonstrated that very few buildings collapse or "pancake" in the U.S. as they might do in other countries. Using a web site to show one picture of one U.S. building that had a partial collapse after a major quake in an area with thousands of buildings that did not collapse during the same quake is inappropriate and misleading.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), which collects data on injuries and deaths from all reportable causes in the U.S., as well as data from three University-based studies performed after the Loma Prieta (September, 1989) and Northridge (January, 1994) earthquakes in California, the following data are indicated: Loma Prieta: 63 deaths, approximately 3,700 people were injured. Most injuries happened as a result of the collapse of the Cypress Street section of I-880 in Oakland. Northridge: 57 deaths, 1,500 serious injuries. Most injuries were from falls caused by people trying to get out of their homes, or serious cuts and broken bones when people ran, barefooted, over broken glass (the earthquake happened in the early morning on a federal holiday when many people were still in bed.) There were millions of people in each of these earthquake-affected areas, and of those millions, many of them reported to have "dropped, covered, and held on" during the shaking of the earthquake.

We contend that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On" indeed SAVED lives, not killed people. Because the research continues to demonstrate that, in the U.S., "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" works, the American Red Cross remains behind that recommendation. It is the simplest, reliable, and easiest method to teach people, including children.

The American Red Cross has not recommended use of a doorway for earthquake protection for more than a decade. The problem is that many doorways are not built into the structural integrity of a building, and may not offer protection. Also, simply put, doorways are not suitable for more than one person at a time.

The Red Cross, remaining consistent with the information published in "Talking About Disaster: Guide for Standard Messages," (visit http://www.disastereducation.org/guide.html ) states that if you are in bed when an earthquake happens, remain there. Rolling out of bed may lead to being injured by debris on the floor next to the bed. If you have done a good job of earthquake mitigation (that is, removing pictures or mirrors that could fall on a bed; anchoring tall bedroom furniture to wall studs, and the like), then you are safer to stay in bed rather than roll out of it during the shaking of an earthquake.

Also, the Red Cross strongly advises not try to move (that is, escape) during the shaking of an earthquake. The more and the longer distance that someone tries to move, the more likely they are to become injured by falling or flying debris, or by tripping, falling, or getting cut by damaged floors, walls, and items in the path of escape. Identifying potential "void areas" and planning on using them for earthquake protection is more difficult to teach, and hard to remember for people who are not educated in earthquake engineering principles. The Red Cross is not saying that identifying potential voids is wrong or inappropriate. What we are saying is that "Drop, Cover, and Hold On!" is NOT wrong -- in the United States. The American Red Cross, being a U.S.-based organization, does not extend its recommendations to apply in other countries. What works here may not work elsewhere, so there is no dispute that the "void identification method" or the "Triangle of Life" may indeed be the best thing to teach in other countries where the risk of building collapse, even in moderate earthquakes, is great.

[gitmo]

SNOPES.COM has this to say about Mr Copp's advice:

• Disaster preparedness experts with the American Red Cross dispute that findings based on earthquake experiences in other countries (e.g., Turkey) are applicable to the U.S., where building codes are substantially different.

• The scientific validity of the conclusions expressed in the article has been questioned by others.

• Doug Copp's claim that he performed rescue work at the World Trade Center (for which he was paid $650,000 in compensation for injuries he supposedly sustained there) has been challenged in a series of articles published in the Albuquerque Journal which describe him as a self-serving opportunist rather than a true rescue expert:
  Self-proclaimed rescue guru Doug Copp's mission to ground zero was considered so important that he had clearance to be flown to New York even though all civilian air traffic in the United States had been grounded. Once there, he says he assumed a pivotal role and sustained devastating injuries while wading through the "toxic soup" in search of survivors and victims, and was awarded nearly $650,000 for his injuries. But there is little evidence Copp performed real rescue work, and it is doubtful that he deserves compensation.
  
  Doug Copp was awarded $649,000, tax free, from the fund set up to compensate victims of 9/11. He says it's not enough. But it's doubtful he deserves anything. A Journal investigation found little evidence that Copp did real rescue work in New York. His forays into the rubble were to shoot video, some of which he tried to sell. His claim of seeking medical care within the time frame appears false. All typical of Copp's years as a self-proclaimed rescue guru.
• Other articles have relayed complaints from numerous people who have dealt with Mr. Copp.

• Mr. Copp is under investigation by a U.S. Department of Justice fraud unit.

We'd recommend sticking with safety information prepared by established earthquake safety experts, such as the American Red Cross and the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

[LibertyRocks]

Wow... Thank you so much for posting this. I had always seen where people were told to get under a table. This makes a lot of sense, and is something that people should definitely be educated about. I’m glad I don’t live in an earthquake zone, however, if I am ever in one, I will be sure to keep this in mind.

[LibertyRocks]

I just wrote thanking granite for his post... Now, I have read the two articles you posted gitmo. Very interesting to say the least. For now, if I’m ever in an earthquake zone I think I will stick to the “original” plan - finding a good solid table or desk to duck under...

As I’m thinking about this further - and in light of the information from the Red Cross and snopes, I personally think that in cases where a building is not going to collapse (or a collapse is not imminent) then getting under a solid table is probably the most advisable thing to do. It would seem to me that if a building of considerable weight is collapsing around you, then getting out of it alive - being in a small pocket - would really all be up to God at that point... Lying in the fetal position without any covering would leave one vulnerable to falling debris and loose furniture and such.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Not within the context of this EARTHQUAKE thread. No I haven’t.

[gitmo]

I personally think that in cases where a building is not going to collapse (or a collapse is not imminent) then getting under a solid table is probably the most advisable thing to do.

In the recent tornado that killed 4 Boy Scouts, the scouts were ordered under tables. The incident reviews are attributing that action to saving a number of lives.

[LibertyRocks]

Yep, living in the Mid-west growing up, and here now, I’m very familiar with the tornado recommendations. Getting away from windows, and under a table, or in the bathtub with a mattress has saved many lives of those who couldn’t get to a basement corner...

In fact, that’s what I was thinking about when I gave a closer look to the recommendation of lying in a fetal position. In school in our tornado drills we were instructed to face the wall, bring our knees up to our chest and cover our heads with our hands. This position, they explained, would protect the most vulnerable parts of our bodies...

[EDINVA]

some time ago I read an article about precautions during an earthquake. IIIRC, it was the “dead space” theory. It claimed that by placing yourself next to a large object (bed, desk) you can avoid the worst danger to your person. It stated that any falling ceiling, for instance, will seek a large object to fall on, and that the space adjoining that large object usually remains clear.

Does anyone with earthquake experience know if this ‘dead space’ theory is accurate ?

[Bikkuri]

I am really glad that no one that you know was injured! Thank God that both of us were far enough away that it didn’t affect either one of us or our families/friends beyond a ‘rude awakening’, or otherwise ;)

I hope that neither of us have to deal with the ‘Kobe’ type disaster within our lifetime... and also that the ROBOT Japanese will never have to experience anything similar again, until they are better prepared (better construction)..

Honestly.. (HONESTLY!!!) The first thing that entered my mind (as well as all other shakers, I guess).. was I hope there were no kids injured... the ones who experienced ‘this’ earthquake... I hope they can learn from it (especially the major hit areas)... and learn to work to help others. (meaning that I hope that they are able to assist even though they aren’t adequately trained/taught what to do if they lose ‘something’... you know what I mean.

In my 10 years here... I still highly look down upon the robotic/group mentality. There is much missing in the responsibility/respect(for others/other’s)/discipline.... and of course the all infamous “blame the teacher” (meaning homeroom Japanese teachers, of course).

The scary thing about this is the anyone who has lived here long enough and kept their eyes open... we see that Japan is about 30 years behind the America (USA) in general..... but recently, America is catching up in this ‘educational’ situation (respect/responsibility/discipline) are, if not getting worse.

Sorry to rant... just finished doing 8 hours straight of a Saturday JUKU on a Saturday... have a headache from the stress of going to a CHO-Genki class to a DEAD class... etc... I live in Chiba city and I have to travel to Akabane by train, while I drive to my weekday school (14 minutes... sweet ;))

anyway.. gonna check the rest of the messages and get to bed. IF the next earthquake gets me... so be it. I just hope the kids are ok.

[Bikkuri]

Akita.... where the quietest dogs in the world come from... very pretty dogs at that. (but NOT good guard dogs since they don’t bark).

You must be much younger than me since you were worried about pajamas ;) I would be happy (if I was able to survive a collapse) with a blanket to cover me or another person who needed it. Heck, if I was showering when it happened and I was able to make it out in my BD-suit, oh well.... sh!T happens... (maybe it was because of having to shower with 50 guys at the same time during boot camp that I’m not so shy...

I guess, when there are circumstances when there are dire needs, you do what you must. I was stationed at Homestead AFB, Miami during Hurricane Andrew... the first thing in my mind was to protect/help those that didn’t have that much protection/aid.. Big difference is that most of the civilian population don’t understand that it could happen to them in their lifetime.. so they never think about needing extra supplies (very ignorant)...

anyway.. I am happy to see that you are ok... and there appears to be no damage on your turf ;) and, of course, I hope it stays that way.

I am kinda agnostic... I am scared NOT to belive in something...... but if I die in 10 years.. 10 months, or 10 minutes... I will be asking for forgiveness for any and all I have done in my lifetime (none went beyond laws of the US of A, BTW)...

Take care and enjoy life while it’s there ;)

[Quix]

Much appreciate this.

Thanks big.

I’d concluded that in some situations, his advice might partially be fitting but that on the whole in the USA, and better industrialized places . . . not as fitting.

Glad I wasn’t totally off the mark.