Jews defend Hagee's words

The Washington Times ^ | May 24, 2008 | Julia Duin

[Ooh-Ah]

Jewish allies of the Rev. John Hagee rushed to his defense yesterday to say the Texas evangelist is not anti-Semitic despite Sen. John McCain campaign's repudiation Thursday of the evangelist's endorsement.

"John Hagee is one of the Jewish people's best friends," Los Angeles talk show host Dennis Prager said on the air yesterday morning. "Identifying John Hagee with anti-Semitism would be like identifying Raoul Wallenberg, the great Swede who saved thousands of Jews in the Holocaust, with anti-Semitism."

Orthodox Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg, of Congregation Rodfei Sholom in San Antonio, appeared at an afternoon press conference yesterday to say Mr. Hagee's "words were twisted and used to attack him for being anti-Semitic."

In actuality, Mr. Hagee "interpreted a biblical verse in a way not very different from several legitimate Jewish authorities," the rabbi said.

...

"I have devoted most of my adult life to ensuring that there will never be a second Holocaust," Mr. Hagee told reporters. "I have worked tirelessly to eliminate the sin of anti-Semitism from the Christian world and to ensure the survival of the state of Israel."

At issue was Mr. Hagee's reference — in a late 1990s sermon and in his 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown" to Adolf Hitler being a "hunter" used by God to force Jews to emigrate to Israel.

...

"Leading rabbis have said the same thing," he said. "This is a legitimate effort to grapple with the age-old question of why God allows evil in the world. Pastor Hagee was not, as some are claiming, saying the Holocaust was good. He has said repeatedly, throughout his life, that the Holocaust was the greatest of tragedies.

[Past Your Eyes]

As usual, McCain doesn’t get it.

[shineon]

Thanks -

It’s nice to hear about someone being defended for reading and believing the good old Holy Bible.

[mkjessup]

That good old Holy Bible is becoming more and more unwelcome because it states in unequivocal terms, the difference between right and wrong, it spells out the moral consequences of rejecting God’s Word, and it defines clearly the fate of those who refuse to believe that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords, and there is Salvation in no other name.

[livius]

Hagee was indeed awful about Catholics, although he has since apologized and Catholics are used to it in any case. But what he was saying about the Jews is virtually a standard Evangelical Protestant approach and was not meant to be insulting in any way.

I thought McCain rejected Hagee’s endorsement because of his comments about Catholics; I didn’t realize it was because of this. I would assume the usual suspects - the atheistic, non-practicing members of the Anti-Defamation League - are behind this.

[RegulatorCountry]

I would assume the usual suspects - the atheistic, non-practicing members of the Anti-Defamation League - are behind this.

Probably. They understand as much about Judaism as McCain does about Christianity, which is to say, not much.

[safisoft]

But what he was saying about the Jews is virtually a standard Evangelical Protestant approach and was not meant to be insulting in any way.

It is standard Orthodox Judaism's approach to the holocaust as well. Not only does McCain not get it, he insulted all Evangelicals and Conservative/Orthodox Jews.

The worse of it? He insulted the Almighty. When someone says that the universe (including Hitler) is not within His control, they are turning the King into a stationary bystander at a mugging. That is a more thorny theological issue that the question, "Why do bad things happen to good people/"

[shineon]

Too bad, this time, there’s no “New World” that we can all go to in order to escape the insanity of humanity and create a community based on the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Alright_on_the_LeftCoast]

McCain is an idiot....i emailed him. I said, John, you may not like the way it was phrased but you obviously ARE NOT a deep thinker either. Answer one simple question. Had there not been a holocaust, would there be a modern day Israel? Pretty simple answer.

[Skooz]

bump

[Angry Write Mail]

This is what we Christians and Conservatives can expect from a McCain presidency. He goes fishing (or phishing) for a TV evangelelist to endorse him, so he has street cred. Not being particularly steeped in the Christian community, he knows neither John Hagee nor Rod Parsly.

Then, when a primarily secular Democrat Left misrepresents both pastors, McCain panics. Since he hasn’t a clue who these pastors are, and fearing a Rev Wright situation on his hands, he assumes the accusations are true - and dumps both men.

As a Christian, does his lack of Christian street cred bother me? No, not really. However, that he tried to falsely invoke God to gain support for his candidacy bothers me considerably. This was McCain’s version of Hillary in a baseball cap. If the halo don’t fit, don’t wear it, John.

[SkyPilot]

Hagee was indeed awful about Catholics

I just saw a show on the History Channel (extended channel) regarding Martin Luther.

What Hagee said was was mild criticism in comparison to what Luther said and its impact throughout Europe.

[montag813]

For the media who wish to equate Hagee with Obama’s pastor and thereby cancel out the entire issue, this is a big difference. Not a single Jew has come out to support Obama’s hatemongering pastor.

[Ron Jeremy]

Right up until November Turkeys love their ranchers, too.

[combat_boots]

Hagee? The man who endorses CUFI and hosts nights to honor Israel? Who funds bringing Jews of the diaspora to live in Israel?

TRY JHM.ORG, McCain, and see for yourself.

[DaveyB]

...What Hagee said was was mild criticism in comparison to what Luther said...

And like Hagee, the historical and theological context of Luther is stripped away so that he can be vilified. The Roman Catholics have been defaming him since their anathema against him for his sola fide soteriology.

[Paleo Conservative]

This happened, because John McCain doesn’t know any of this information first hand. He relies on his handlers to spoon feed him information from the MSM.

[Grunthor]

“As usual, McCain doesn’t get it.”

He gets it just fine. The media told him to jump, he asked “how high?”

[lonestar]

Hagee was indeed awful about Catholics, although he has since apologized and Catholics are used to it in any case.

I've read here on FR that only Catholics are going to Heaven! How "awful" is that?

[Corin Stormhands]

Then, when a primarily secular Democrat Left misrepresents both pastors, McCain panics. Since he hasn’t a clue who these pastors are, and fearing a Rev Wright situation on his hands, he assumes the accusations are true - and dumps both men.

And for me, while I'm not particularly a fan of Hagee or Parsley, this was the final straw. I will not support John McCain.

[Theophilus]

That is a more thorny theological issue that the question, "Why do bad things happen to good people/"

What good people?

There are none righteous, no not even one.

[Fiji Hill]

This was McCain’s version of Hillary in a baseball cap.

How about Michael Dukakis riding a tank?

[make no mistake]

“As usual, McCain doesn’t get it”

I wish Fox News, Rush and other conservative talking heads would also get it.

[apillar]

The way McCain threw Hagee under the bus without even finding out the entire story doesn't do much to inspire me about how far he would stand up for his cabinet/judicial nominees's the first time they come under any criticism.

Of course at the rate he's going, his nominees will be so liberal that they will not receive any criticism from democrats or the liberal media and he's made it clear that he doesn't care about conservative criticism.

[megatherium]

And like Hagee, the historical and theological context of Luther is stripped away so that he can be vilified. The Roman Catholics have been defaming him since their anathema against him for his sola fide soteriology.

Please read the words of Luther himself, from his book The Jews and Their Lies (translated by Martin H. Bertram):

What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly_and I myself was unaware of it_will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know.

In Deuteronomy 13:12 Moses writes that any city that is given to idolatry shall be totally destroyed by fire, and nothing of it shall be preserved. If he were alive today, he would be the first to set fire to the synagogues and houses of the Jews. For in Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32 he commanded very explicitly that nothing is to be added to or subtracted from his law. And Samuel says in I Samuel 15:23 that disobedience to God is idolatry. Now the Jews' doctrine at present is nothing but the additions of the rabbis and the idolatry of disobedience, so that Moses has become entirely unknown among them (as we said before), just as the Bible became unknown under the papacy in our day. So also, for Moses' sake, their schools cannot be tolerated; they defame him just as much as they do us. It is not necessary that they have their own free churches for such idolatry.

Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them the fact that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God.

Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them.

Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jews captive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17:10) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16:18, "You are Peter," etc., inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach.

[Redhd2]

Great, concise and perfectly stated summation of what
has taken place.

[mimaw]

I just wish McCain had dumped him over his nasty anti Catholic comments were aired.

[make no mistake]

Hagee’s words were taken out of context concerning Catholics too.

[make no mistake]

5 QI must also point out that Rabbi Yoffie was far too quick to accuse Pastor Hagee of anti-Catholicism. Pastor Hagee never called the Catholic Church the ugly names reported in the media, and his criticism of the Catholic Church was limited to past anti-Semitism. Pastor Hagee has since expressed his deep regret for any hurt caused or misimpressions created in his zeal to combat anti-Semitism. He and Bill Donahue, the head of the Catholic League, are now friends. In fact, Bill Donahue said the following of Pastor Hagee on Thursday:
Haaretz.com By Shmuel Rosner

[Vigilanteman]

As a Christian, does his lack of Christian street cred bother me? No, not really. However, that he tried to falsely invoke God to gain support for his candidacy bothers me considerably.

I'm with you. I'd vote for an athiest who respected the constitution long before I'd vote for a faux Christian driven by the enemedia.

[Salem]

---

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spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)
Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
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Warnings ~
The Nature Of Bruce ~

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" ... It's time we recognized the nature of the conflict. It's total war and we are all involved. Nobody on our side is exempted because of age, gender, or handicap. The Islamofacists have stolen childhood from the world."—FReeper Retief
"Palestine is the wrong name for their State. It should be called Anarchy."—FReeper sgtbono2002
"Then let's wait and see what the Arabs do after they take Gaza. There's nothing like Arab reality to break up a Jewish fantasy."—FReeper Noachian
A student told his professor he was going to "Palestine" to "fight for freedom, peace and justice,"—Orwellian leftist code words that mean "murder Jews."

[BigFinn]

What does it matter (in the greater picture) of what McCain says about pastor Hagee. He's just a blip on the screen. God has a plan and His will... will be done...

and remember those haunting gospel words... "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you."

[Past Your Eyes]

When he finally does stand for something, it’s often on the wrong side.

[Past Your Eyes]

The truth is not always pleasant to hear. The Catholic Church is corrupt? No way.
/s

[Ooh-Ah]

Also from the article:

Earlier this month, Mr. Donohue's watchdog group said an exchange of letters clarifying some theological matters "effectively ends" its dispute with Mr. Hagee.

Bill Donohue is president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.

[Biblebelter]

It’s Hagee’s endorsement of the spinless intemperate cross dressing old geezer in the first place that cannot be defended. Hagee showed EXTREMELY bad judgment in his endorsment and bad judgment which was matched by the RINO relic who decided he wanted his picture taken with the Christian right, a group which he has spat on and abused in every way possible in the past.

[F15Eagle]

probably figured who is the least worst of the three.