McCain rejects endorsement from televangelist

AP ^ | May 22, 2008 | AP

[Westlander]

Republican presidential candidate John McCain rejected the months-old endorsement of an influential Texas televangelist after an audio recording surfaced in which the preacher said God sent Adolf Hitler to help Jews reach the promised land.

[Westlander]

Hagee's a nutcase.

[Man50D]

More like God sent Hitler to where he wouldn't reach the promised land.

[mrsmel]

I wonder when Obama is going to reject Hamas’ endorsement?

[M203M4]

God sent Hagee to embarrass humanity.

[whitedog57]

I agree with McCain on this one.

[FFranco]

McCain should have discovered Hagee was nuts before soliciting his endorsement.

[SE Mom]

Wow.

What an awful thing to say.

[Osage Orange]

Many here....think many posters are nuts too.

[meandog]

McCain should have discovered Hagee was nuts before soliciting his endorsement.

Texas antisemite and Roman Catholic-hating Hagee was a big supporter of President Bush too...I believe he's even been to the White House. So Bush should have checked him out as well.

[Tex Pete]

I think a lot of people are judging Hagee without knowing anything other than what the media is putting out there, which (gasp!) is meant to do nothing but divide Republicans and smear Christianity.

Hagee is very pro-Israel, and he doesn’t hate Catholics. I would also not categorize him as a televangelist(which is meant as nothing more than a slam).

But by all means, continue with the rage. That is what the press wants.

[meandog]

Your kind of preacher?

[meandog]

I think a lot of people are judging Hagee without knowing anything other than what the media is putting out there, which (gasp!) is meant to do nothing but divide Republicans and smear Christianity.

Hagee is nothing more than a slicker version of Jimmy Saggart with a little Jim and Tammy on the side!

[CalvaryJohn]

Hagee’s a boob, but he wasn’t saying Hitler was good. And anybody making hay out of this damn well knows it.

[RegulatorCountry]

I think a lot of people are judging Hagee without knowing anything other than what the media is putting out there, which (gasp!) is meant to do nothing but divide Republicans and smear Christianity.

And McCain got sucked right into it. Hagee's style is rather bombastic, and I don't especially enjoy listening to him myself, but he is no antisemite, and he doesn't hate Roman Catholics, as you noted. If he's not careful, McCain is going to revive the resentments he fostered in South Carolina, back in 2000. He's truly got a tin ear, when it comes to Evangelicals.

[Tex Pete]

I disagree completely.

It helps to actually know more about him than what the press says/prints(which will never be favorable for someone who preaches the Bible).

[DesScorp]

“Hagee’s a nutcase.”

No he’s not. He’s right. And McCain is a chicken-sh*t.

Think about it. There was absolutely no chance of the Jews getting their homeland back prior to WWII. It took Adolf Hitler and his atrocities to make it happen. No Hitler, No Israel. Zionism would have never been fulfilled if it weren’t for the horror of the Holocaust motivating the nations of the world. That’s a fact. God has used evil men in the Bible for His own ends. He works in strange ways.

Hagee was right, and you people are so easily led by the MSM, it’s pathetic.

[Salvation]

Glad he did this.

[Petronski]

Hagee was right, and you people are so easily led by the MSM, it’s pathetic.

Oh my God.

[RegulatorCountry]

Hagee is nothing more than a slicker version of Jimmy Saggart with a little Jim and Tammy on the side!

You've never set eyes on the man, have you? He's obese, red-faced and sweaty, prone to lengthy, loud bouts of preaching about hellfire and damnation, the very antithesis of slick. He's a lot of things, but he's no Swaggart or Bakker.

[Pontiac]

Hagee’s a boob, but he wasn’t saying Hitler was good. And anybody making hay out of this damn well knows it.

I agree with you.

If you look at it from an Old Testament view point, God sent many pagan conquerors against the Jews to punish them and turn them back to God.

I have no doubt that Hagee was speaking from that view point.

Context is everything.

[My hearts in London - Everett]

You’re exactly right. I knew that’s exactly what Hagee meant as soon as I read it. Hagee is not anti-Catholic and he’s very much pro-Israel. He’s a loud, hellfire preacher. We need more of them in this country. There are too many weak, easily offended and easily cowed Christians in this country. Put these pitiful Christians together with the people who care too much about the spotted owl and those who care too little about the infiltration of radical muslims into the US and there’s little hope left, in my mind, for United States.

[ncalburt]

Please, Hagee had to apologize to the Catholic Church last week . He is loud mouth showman .
This is a Obama media phony scandal cooked up by the AP and the Obama camp to throw mud everywhere so the Wright scandal is treated as no big deal every does it.
Why do people fall for this Obama media crap and get worked up over it.

[RegulatorCountry]

If you look at it from an Old Testament view point, God sent many pagan conquerors against the Jews to punish them and turn them back to God.

The Old Testament, containing books otherwise known as the Torah, which is the central religious text of Judaism itself.

So, such an observation is hardly antisemitic, controversial though it may be in the modern era.

[meandog]

It helps to actually know more about him than what the press says/prints(which will never be favorable for someone who preaches the Bible

Oh, I don't know about that...the press seems pretty favorable to people such as Pope Benedict, Billy Graham, and Katharine Jefferts Schori(presiding Bishop of EUSA); although I do agree that liberal priests and pastors find more access than do evangelicals.

[TADSLOS]

Don't dance if you're not willing to pay the fiddler.

[lilylangtree]

I enjoyed John Hagee’s ministerial messages. He’s the only preacher that gets me out of chair yelling “Praise the Lord!” His wife is of Jewish descent and he’s completely pro-Israel. So whatever his message was it was definitely taken out of context. Sounds like some osama husseim campaign shenanigans. Anyway, when Hagee first came out endorsing that miserable good-for-nothing mcpain, I emailed him and told him mcpain wasn’t worth endorsing. I later emailed him and told him that I was sincerely disappointed in him over Hagee’s endorsement and subsquently apologetic stance. Bah!

[airforceF4]

So G-d engineered the destruction of more than 6 million European people—Jews, Poles, Czechs, Germans, Roma and French—to teach the world a lesson. How about the millions killed in the Soviet Union through Stalin's purges—how does that figure into the Israel equation? And, please, let us not forget Asia during these years. All this adds up to Israel???
One thinks not. Read your history about Hitler's carnage.
Hagee is ignominious and impotent.

[RegulatorCountry]

Please, Hagee had to apologize to the Catholic Church last week

And apologize he did. Do you think he was insincere or something? He engaged in speculation, as to the identity of "the whore of Babylon" in Biblical prophesy. He's not the first to wonder if it's not the Vatican, and won't be the last. There are others who believe it's the United States, still others who believe it's the European Union, or even the UN.

[Pontiac]

So, such an observation is hardly antisemitic, controversial though it may be in the modern era.

Exactly my point.

[ncalburt]

Hagee was an unknown loud mouth showman . Who cared what he says until Obama got caught in a tight place and his Obama media whores now are trying to create a new scandal using Mccain so they can say lefts move on about Wright.
The whole thing is a Obama media scam. I do not know why people let the Obama media get them upset.

[Caramelgal]

… It took Adolf Hitler and his atrocities to make it happen. No Hitler, No Israel. Zionism would have never been fulfilled if it weren’t for the horror of the Holocaust motivating the nations of the world.

So you really think that what the Nazi’s did was really a good thing in the end? That the end justifies the means? And why should it have taken the gruesome death of an estimated 6 million people and the untold and horrible suffering of many more, not all of whom were Jews BTW, to motivate the nations of the world?

That’s a fact. God has used evil men in the Bible for His own ends. He works in strange ways.

Are you saying the Hitler was actually doing “God’s work”? I would submit that if you think this is the case, that God put these events into motion, then your God does not work in strange ways – he is a sadist of the worst possible kind.

I suggest you go down to your local abortion clinic and thank them for their good works because as you said “God has used evil men in the Bible for His own ends.”

[RegulatorCountry]

Hagee was an unknown loud mouth showman

Unknown outside of Evangelical circles, yes. Loud mouth? He does say what's on his mind, and not often diplomatically. Some find such candor appealing, some find it appalling. But, showman? No. I think he's found the audience that he has precisely because he isn't slick, well coiffed or telegenic. He's an immediately recognizable archetype for Southern Baptists, who respond to his style of sermon.

[ncalburt]

He said some ugly things about Catholics .
Frankly, I do not like to sit thru a political sermon in God's House.
Its just an phony OBama media scandal meant to help Obama with the nasty Wright issue . Don't fall for it .

[attiladhun2]

McCain panders to the MSM. Apparently a lot of Freepers do, as well. Anything Hagee says in the pulpit is 180 degrees from anything proclaimed by BO’s pastor.

[Xenalyte]

If I were DesScorp, I’d be pretty upset at you putting words in my mouth.

The thoughts you attribute to him are nothing like what he posted.

[RegulatorCountry]

He said some ugly things about Catholics

He attempted to place the Roman Catholic Church in the context of Biblical prophesy through speculation, as many Baptists have done in the past. He seems to have repented of this speculation, and has apologized. Do you think he is insincere in his apology?

[avenir]

“I suggest you go down to your local abortion clinic and thank them for their good works because as you said “God has used evil men in the Bible for His own ends.”

You’ve mixed it all up. Read the Scriptures and that will get you sorted out. God is sovereign, and can do as he pleases, and that has included very violent punishments inflicted on mankind AS HE SEES FIT.

Think you know better? Forget it, lady, you’re just another pot quarrelling with its Maker.

[Sloth]

I have contempt for Hagee, and for the record I disagree with some of the underlying theology of his comments, but there’s nothing even vaguely antisemitic in what he said about Hitler. He was merely claiming that God uses even the evil enemies of His chosen people to fulfill certain purposes. The Old Testament is CHOCK FULL of examples of this. To deny it is to deny the entire basis of the Jewish religion.

McCain is a lying coward, and he will not be receiving my vote (and accordingly, endorsing him speaks volumes about Hagee).

[Caramelgal]

You’ve mixed it all up. Read the Scriptures and that will get you sorted out. God is sovereign, and can do as he pleases, and that has included very violent punishments inflicted on mankind AS HE SEES FIT.

So then clarify for me. Was God punishing the Jews (and Catholics and Protestants, gypsies, the physically and mentally handicapped) with the Holocaust or rewarding them through God’s tool, Hitler with the Nation of Israel?

How is abortion God’s punishment on mankind?

[My hearts in London - Everett]

Spin, spin, spin. She’d make a great politician, don’t you think?

[My hearts in London - Everett]

"Was God punishing the Jews (and Catholics and Protestants, gypsies, the physically and mentally handicapped) with the Holocaust or rewarding them through God’s tool, Hitler with the Nation of Israel?

Neither. But God has a plan and His ways are not our ways and He advises us not to "lean unto thine own understanding". Get it yet??

[TigersEye]

McCain is a nutcase...and he’s running for President.

[MojoM]

11 Then the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served the Baals; 12 and they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, who had brought them out of the land of Egypt; and they followed other gods from among the gods of the people who were all around them, and they bowed down to them; and they provoked the LORD to anger. 13 They forsook the LORD and served Baal and the Ashtoreths.[c] 14 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel. So He delivered them into the hands of plunderers who despoiled them; and He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, so that they could no longer stand before their enemies. 15 Wherever they went out, the hand of the LORD was against them for calamity, as the LORD had said, and as the LORD had sworn to them. And they were greatly distressed.

[DesScorp]

"So G-d engineered the destruction of more than 6 million European people—Jews, Poles, Czechs, Germans, Roma and French—to teach the world a lesson."

No, I never said "to teach the world a lesson". Those are your words, not mine, and not my meaning. God used an evil man, Adolf Hitler, for His own ends in securing a homeland for the Jews. He's God. He can do that, or whatever else He pleases, thanks.

"How about the millions killed in the Soviet Union through Stalin's purges—how does that figure into the Israel equation? "

It doesn't .Stalin was never brought up, that is, until you did. Would you like to bring up any other irrelevant examples? And while Stalin was a mass-murdering tyrant, he never tried to commit genocide, he never tried to wipe an entire people off the face of the earth. There's a not-subtle difference here.

"Read your history about Hitler's carnage."

I probably know more about it than you do. But that's irrelevant. Answer a question, honestly; without Adolf Hitler, without the Holocaust... would Israel exist today?

[AndyTheBear]

Hagee has referred to the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system." He also has linked Hitler to the Catholic church, suggesting it helped shape his anti-Semitism.

WTF!

I'm not Catholic, but this is absurd slander against the Catholic church.

Ironically both these criticisms fit Islam quite well.

Was it not Yasar Arafat's uncle that was the "Islamic Fuhrer" pushing Hitler toward exterminating rather than banishing the Jews?

And as for "the great whore", I have to guess he means the whore of Babylon from the book of Revelation. But the whore has a great resemblance to Islam, and very little to Catholicism. Particularly in recent days. It isn't the Catholic church that is "drunk on the blood of the saints". And the Catholic church is not addicted to luxuries gained through trading with the whole world like the wealthy in the Islamic countries are.

As for the abomination that causes desolation, it seems it is Islam that have set up an unholy shrine where the Temple of God is supposed to be.

[AndyTheBear]

I was willing to give Hagee the benefit of the doubt until I read the following:

Hagee has referred to the Roman Catholic Church as "the great whore" and called it a "false cult system." He also has linked Hitler to the Catholic church, suggesting it helped shape his anti-Semitism.

Please tell me the article misquoted him badly on this. If he sees the Catholic church as the great whore of Babylon, I have to seriously question his grasp on either the Bible or current and recent world events.

[AndyTheBear]

Hagee is not anti-Catholic and he’s very much pro-Israel.

I would like to think so, but see post 45.

[DesScorp]

" So you really think that what the Nazi’s did was really a good thing in the end?".

Nope, I never said that. I said that God uses evil men for His purposes sometimes, and has done so many times throughout history. There's a beautiful irony in that; not only are they going to hell, while they're there, they'll know that not only could they never defeat God, He used them like pawns when they thought they were soooo clever.

"And why should it have taken the gruesome death of an estimated 6 million people and the untold and horrible suffering of many more, not all of whom were Jews BTW, to motivate the nations of the world?"

Because we're an evil, corrupt species, and have been since Adam bit into that fruit. So sometimes God uses the horror of our own evils to show us just how far we've fallen. It shouldn't have taken a Holocaust for Israel to exist again. The fact that it did is proof that the "human potential" movement is full of it, and that man really is a corrupt creature without God's grace.

"Are you saying the Hitler was actually doing “God’s work”? "

Only indirectly. Hitler tried to destroy the Jews. God, who apparently has the greatest sense of irony anywhere, made that backfire. Not only did Hitler not suceed, his actions galvanized the rest of the world to allow Zionism to be fulfilled, and for Israel to exist again. It's horrible that six million Jews had to suffer for this to happen, but suffering is part of God's way of doing things. We don't understand it, but it happens here for a reason.

"I suggest you go down to your local abortion clinic and thank them for their good works because as you said “God has used evil men in the Bible for His own ends.”

Wow, do I have to school you in everything? Oh well. Pay attention, Einstein. See, that would be a sin. That would be presuming to be an instrument of God. That would be committing sin intentionally, and then using God to justify it. That's a no-no. Glad we cleared that up. If I can help you understand anything else, please let me know.

[AndyTheBear]

I got Islam pegged as the whore of Babylon. I got the EU pegged as the beast with 10 heads (same as ten toes on statue from Daniel 2, part iron part clay and all). Could be wrong, but if the Vatican is either, it would have to be a future evil Vatican which is "drunk on the blood of the saints".

When I look out and see Islamic people wantingly slaughtering innocent Jews and Christians any chance they get (i.e. when they can operate outside of the sphere of Western Culture, of which the Vatican is a part) then how the heck am I to think it is the Vatican who is "drunk on the blood of the saints"?

Also according to the Vatican the Lord of Lords is Jesus Christ. I think they are right. According to Islam, the Lord of Lords is not Jesus. So putting aside some odd theology about the Virgin Mary hearing prayers, its pretty easy to see who the idolaters really are.

And my old friend St John once wrote: Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God 1 John 4:1,2 NIV

[DesScorp]

"Please tell me the article misquoted him badly on this."

I don't know. He may hate their guts for all I know. All I stated was that Hagee was right about his comments on God using the Nazis as His instrument, in a highly ironic way at that. Not only did Hitler not succeed, it's quite easy to imagine him twisting in hell as he realizes that his evil works actually ensured the survival of the Jews, not their end. As I put it to someone else, answer the question honestly; would Israel exist today without the Holocaust?

As for the anti-Catholic thing, though I'm not Catholic, you'll be hard pressed to find a bigger admirer of the Catholic church than I. And so if Hagee does have a hate-on for Catholics, oh well, sorry, but he's wrong if that's the case. But if you're a Protestant, and you're honest, you'll admit that "Catholics are of the Devil!" is standard fare in a lot of Protestant services. These feelings date back to the Reformation, and they're not going away anytime soon. So if the charges about Hagee and Catholicism is true, he certainly has a lot of company.