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Have Law-Abiding Citizens Become Outgunned? (CHICAGO)
CBS 2 CHICAGO ^ | 20 MAY 2008 | AP

Posted on 05/20/2008 9:00:41 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist

CHICAGO (CBS) ― Gun violence on the streets of Chicago continues to take lives with nearly every day that passes. In a recent town hall meeting on violence, the issue of guns dominated the discussion. The question arose: How does Chicago, with one of the most restrictive laws on handgun ownership, have such a problem with the mayhem their users cause?

CBS 2's Rob Johnson the gun debate continues, and some wonder if law-abiding citizens have become outgunned.

In April of this year there were 47 murders in Chicago, the highest monthly total in 10 years, and 80 percent of the murders this year involved guns.

For those who lost loved ones, like Emma Daviston, whose grandson Cardell was killed four years ago at the corner of 16th and Komensky, gun violence is difficult to discuss.

"Pain, a lot of pain...that's what goes through my mind when I think about guns," Daviston said.

Tom Ahern of the Chicago office of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) thinks about guns all the time. He has to.

"Remember all guns start out legally. Somewhere down the road they become illegal," Ahern said.

He's talking about straw purchases, which is where someone buys a gun legally and then either sells it or gives it to someone not authorized to purchase a gun.

"Firearms trafficking is a priority or ours, and we're trying to stem the flow of illegal guns into Illinois," Ahern said.

One of the places from which guns enter the state is Mississippi. The flow from there led to 14 people being prosecuted for running a straw purchase ring in 2007. Another source is Indiana, and many come from nearby gun shops outside the city limits.

Chuck's Gun Shop in Riverdale has been the frequent site of anti-gun protests.

In fact, statistics from an anti-gun advocacy group showed that from 1996-2000 Chuck's sold at least 2,000 weapons that were recovered in crimes, but that gun shop and its owner haven't faced prosecution because of the difficulty of figuring out who is a straw purchaser and who is legitimate.

"If all of the records, books and records and acquisitions are in place, we're limited to what we could do other than to educate them as far as the sale of weapons to maybe a straw purchaser," Ahern said.

"So what can you do, read their minds? Short of being a clairvoyant palm reader you can't know you can only surmise," argued gun proponent Marc Albertario. "And should you deny the purchase to a person who has otherwise met all of the proper conditions for a gun purchase?"

Albertario is a member of the Nation Rifle Association. He says the focus of law enforcement shouldn't be on the gun dealers, but the people getting the legal guns into the hands of those with illegal intentions.

"Who's buying the guns legally and getting them into the hands of criminals, because criminals by definition can't buy the guns," Albertario said.

For the ATF, their mission of stopping gun violence is made more difficult by laws that aren't on the books.

Thomas Mannard, of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, said he would like to see changes including licensing of all gun sellers and criminal background checks on all gun purchasers.

"The reality is that legislators are scared of often times gun issues because of the backlash they get from the gun lobby," Mannard said.

As for Daviston, she just hopes others don't have to live her personal hell.

"Let there be fewer guns and then we will have less heartaches," she said.

CBS 2 contacted the owner of Chuck's Gun Shop for an interview, but he declined the request.

Gun rights activists are frustrated because they feel that law-abiding gun owners are facing the wrath of gun opponents because the actions of drug dealers and gang members who have no respect for the law at all, and that their criminal enterprise will thrive no matter how many gun laws are enacted.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; chicago; gunfreezone

1 posted on 05/20/2008 9:00:41 PM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Oprah has a Chicago home. Reckon any guns are there?


2 posted on 05/20/2008 9:02:48 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: eyedigress

Oprah likely has more heat around than Maw Barker would have had.


3 posted on 05/20/2008 9:04:52 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

A future “special report” from CBS: “Does a bear %$&@ in the woods?”


4 posted on 05/20/2008 9:07:38 PM PDT by Grammar Nazi ("Hige sceal þe heardra, heorte þe cenre, mod sceal þe mare, þe ure mægen lytlað.")
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To: Candor7
No Doubt!


5 posted on 05/20/2008 9:09:46 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Photobucket
6 posted on 05/20/2008 9:14:25 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
The question arose: How does Chicago, with one of the most restrictive laws on handgun ownership, have such a problem with the mayhem their users cause?

Leftist utopianism: If we completely outlaw guns, there will be no more violence!

Reality: Outlawing guns means that only those with no respect for the law will have them, and the inability of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves will embolden violent criminals. Hence, Chicago...

7 posted on 05/20/2008 9:16:27 PM PDT by Zero Sum (Liberalism: The damage ends up being a thousand times the benefit! (apologies to Rabbi Benny Lau))
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
The question arose: How does Chicago, with one of the most restrictive laws on handgun ownership, have such a problem with the mayhem their users cause?

Their problem ian't the amount of guns. It's the amount of violent criminals.

8 posted on 05/20/2008 9:17:16 PM PDT by umgud
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Are citizens outgunned? No.

Is law enforcement outgunned? Yes

Why? Because the justice system keeps turning criminals back on the streets instead of making them serve their time.
Cops took on the mission of protecting people and they are doing a pretty miserable job. Cut the restrictions on gun ownership and let the people protect themselves.


9 posted on 05/20/2008 9:20:12 PM PDT by o_zarkman44 (No Bull in 08!)
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To: Zero Sum

Excellent post, and so is Greybeard 58’s just above yours...


10 posted on 05/20/2008 9:30:53 PM PDT by billmor
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

“For the ATF, their mission of stopping gun violence is made more difficult by laws that aren’t on the books.

Thomas Mannard, of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, said he would like to see changes including licensing of all gun sellers and criminal background checks on all gun purchasers.”

And there are people that don’t believe in little green men.


11 posted on 05/20/2008 9:44:44 PM PDT by A Strict Constructionist (We have become an oligarchy not a Republic.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

The problem begins in the home, when welfare displaces the father and the mother with children is kept at a subsistence level. She depends on the government check, a slave suckling the teat of a modern master. And she votes reliably lest her master cease to feed her.

Daley knows this. He can blame the guns all he wants, but it’s the failed liberal policies that put us here.


12 posted on 05/20/2008 10:06:14 PM PDT by IncPen (We are but a moment's sunlight, fading in the grass...)
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To: eyedigress; Candor7

I seriously doubt that Oprah has touched a gun in the last 20 years.

I know first-hand that she has enormous bodyguards and they are very, very well armed.


13 posted on 05/20/2008 10:08:34 PM PDT by IncPen (We are but a moment's sunlight, fading in the grass...)
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To: IncPen
We are well aware of the aristocrats. By virtue of her fame and money she is “kinda” in. She is well protected I’m sure. The hypocrisy out in the open is what gets me started.
14 posted on 05/20/2008 10:18:44 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Chicago sounds like a target rich environment. They need to loosen up on the laws so the law-abiding can get protection.


15 posted on 05/20/2008 10:30:40 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: SatinDoll

Obama country. You got to be kidding. Already has restrictive gun laws but probably stupid ones.

Why let the people protect themselves? That means trusting the citizenry to do something for themselves instead of Big Brother, and Democrats can’t allow that. It would mean the end of the Democrat Party, and Obama’s dream to be king of America.

Sorry for the innocent people gunned down in Chicago. We have the same thing in DC - restrictive laws that only protect the criminal and make the citizens targets every day, yet the assholes still vote for the Democrats. They don’t ever learn, even when they are dead.


16 posted on 05/20/2008 10:57:00 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: SatinDoll

Obama country. You got to be kidding. Already has restrictive gun laws but probably stupid ones.

Why let the people protect themselves? That means trusting the citizenry to do something for themselves instead of Big Brother, and Democrats can’t allow that. It would mean the end of the Democrat Party, and Obama’s dream to be king of America.

Sorry for the innocent people gunned down in Chicago. We have the same thing in DC - restrictive laws that only protect the criminal and make the citizens targets every day, yet the assholes still vote for the Democrats. They don’t ever learn, even when they are dead.


17 posted on 05/20/2008 10:58:09 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
How does Chicago, with one of the most restrictive laws on handgun ownership, have such a problem with the mayhem their users cause?

They really don't get the connection, do they? There's no paradox there, no irony. The. Laws. Do. Not. WORK.

18 posted on 05/20/2008 11:04:17 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

Remember all guns start out legally. Somewhere down the road they become illegal,” Ahern said.

“Somewhere down the road they become illegal,” Ahern said.

“They become illegal”...he is saying that all guns become illegal. He should have said “some” become illegal.
Think it reveals his mindset?


19 posted on 05/20/2008 11:13:31 PM PDT by fishhound (Boycott the Olympics in China.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

I live in the state of Washington. This is a right to carry state. The level of crime is lower but not because it is rural.

The I5 freeway corridor is used to move drugs from Mexico all up and down the west coast. Home invasions here do happen because of meth freaks. More than one tweaker has gotten plugged by an angry, frightened homeowner armed with a shotgun.


20 posted on 05/20/2008 11:20:37 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately desiring a conservative government.)
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To: Graybeard58

Excellent.


21 posted on 05/20/2008 11:40:20 PM PDT by Gator113 (Obama is a member of the Far Wright Conspiracy.......)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
The question arose: How does Chicago, with one of the most restrictive laws on handgun ownership, have such a problem with the mayhem their users cause?

These people must have "inhale" "exhale" tattooed inside their eyelids.

22 posted on 05/21/2008 1:14:10 AM PDT by TigersEye (Berlin 1936. Olympics for murdering regimes. Beijing 2008.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
“For the ATF, their mission of stopping gun violence is made more difficult by laws that aren't on the books.”

What a statement! The psudo-Nazi organization wishes they could ban all guns and burn out and exterminate any citizen not complying with their dictates.

23 posted on 05/21/2008 3:02:56 AM PDT by CapnJack
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"How does Chicago, with one of the most restrictive laws on handgun ownership, have such a problem with the mayhem their users cause?"

Because, you retard, the criminals don't give a sh*t about your stupid laws.

"Remember all guns start out legally. Somewhere down the road they become illegal," Ahern said."

Of course, guns are NEVER illegally brought into this country, right? Really, you are are just to ignorant to comprehend.

24 posted on 05/21/2008 3:16:32 AM PDT by lexusppd
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
criminal enterprise will thrive no matter how many gun laws are enacted.

BINGO!

25 posted on 05/21/2008 4:00:41 AM PDT by upchuck (Who wins doesn't matter. They're all liberals. Spend your time and money to take back Congress.)
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To: eyedigress

Oprah wouldn’t stoop to owning GUNS. He bodyguards own them.


26 posted on 05/21/2008 5:47:36 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

“Remember all guns start out legally. Somewhere down the road they become illegal,”

Now if we could only get the feds to have the same attitude toward certain immigrants.


27 posted on 05/21/2008 5:50:37 AM PDT by Hacklehead (Crush the liberals, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the hippies.)
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To: Billthedrill
They really don't get the connection, do they? There's no paradox there, no irony. The. Laws. Do. Not. WORK.

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein

Democrat: a politician who passes increasingly restrictive gun laws over and over again expecting different results from the next new gun law.

Sadly, I'm being charitable when I compare the democrat position with mental illness. I can't imagine that their leadership genuinely believes what they say on this issue.

28 posted on 05/21/2008 5:55:41 AM PDT by RogerD (What part of "shall not be infringed" is confusing to liberals?)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Not probably stupid...definitely stupid.

Here’s an example: A person has to register (or re-register) their guns every year. If caught with un-registered guns, it’s a felony. So, if you’re speeding through Chicago or run a red light and get stopped, good luck! Even if that gun is locked up, it’s still a felony. I have been registering my “expensive” over/unders (cheap compared to the price of a Beretta SO10 sidelock O/U) for quite a while (even before the felony charge was instituted) just because I don’t want them seized when stopped for a traffic violation. One friend had his Spanish double gun seized prior to the felony rap and it took forever to get back.

How many O/Us or Spanish side-by-sides (or “assault” rifles) have been involved in gun crimes - few to none. So the Libs aren’t really doing squat to help law-abiding citizens.

BTW, Oprah lives in a condo on Michigan Avenue and, as stated above, she does have bodyguards and a chauffeur, who might also be armed.

Oprah and the other liberals forget that self-defense was one of the reasons for the 2nd Amendment. We can’t all afford bodygaurds...sometimes we have to be our own bodyguard.


29 posted on 05/21/2008 6:14:07 AM PDT by 12Gauge687 (Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
Have Law-Abiding Citizens Become Outgunned? (CHICAGO)
No $hit, $herlock!

Don't forget to post the second line of the article titles! In other news, Democrats stupid, Republicans wimpy.

30 posted on 05/21/2008 7:33:37 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Typical white person)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

***”Remember all guns start out legally. Somewhere down the road they become illegal,” Ahern said.***

No arm is illegal in this country. (For all you smart-alecks, I mean arms).

But of course that comes from somebody in the ATF.


31 posted on 05/21/2008 9:13:09 AM PDT by wastedyears (Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. - Optimus Prime)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
""Remember all guns start out legally. Somewhere down the road they become illegal," Ahern said."

Here's the problem in a nutshell Mr. ATF agent. The mindset that somehow an object is illegal. Here's a hint, people commit illegal acts, not objects idiot!!!
32 posted on 05/21/2008 9:21:03 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"Thomas Mannard, of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence, said he would like to see changes including licensing of all gun sellers and criminal background checks on all gun purchasers."

Someone correct me on this but doesn't everyone who buys a gun in America have to go through a background check? Also, doesn't every gun store owner have to be licensed? So is this guy just a total idiot who doesn't know the law?
33 posted on 05/21/2008 9:26:06 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"For those who lost loved ones, like Emma Daviston, whose grandson Cardell was killed four years ago at the corner of 16th and Komensky, gun violence is difficult to discuss."

How many of these poor victims of gun violence in Chicago are gang bangers and drug dealers shooting each other? The lady cited in the article had her grandson shot on the corner, would love to hear the whole story on that. I'm sure, he was not involved in any illegal activities or in a gang while being shot right? These are facts a good reporter would find out if they didn't already have a bias.
34 posted on 05/21/2008 9:28:28 AM PDT by Old Teufel Hunden
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
To answer the headline, the answer is a resounding YES, IMHO.

Don't think for one minute that the gangs, muslims, chinese and the drug cartels aren't caching full auto weapons all around the country.

How do you think Joe NRA member's collection of hunting rifles, shotguns and pistols are going to stack up against those?

35 posted on 05/21/2008 10:39:17 AM PDT by Looking4Truth (Leave it to some liberal dork to screw things up for the rest of us.)
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

40 years ago.


36 posted on 05/21/2008 10:42:43 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
"Let there be fewer guns and then we will have less heartaches," she said.

That was already done 40 years ago.

See how much better things are?

37 posted on 05/21/2008 10:45:35 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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