Stunned shoppers watched as paramedics tried to save
the victim's life after the Oxford Street attack Shoppers witnessed horrific scenes as two men pounced on Mr Bigby as he left McDonald's, then stabbed him and slit his throat.
Posted on 05/13/2008 8:07:35 AM PDT by yankeedame
Last updated at 15:04pm on 13th May 2008
Thugs found carrying knives should not be jailed under new proposals announced on the day a man died after his throat was slit on London's Oxford Street.
Britain's most senior judge, Lord Chief Justice Phillips, says people found with knives for the first time should escape with a community order.
The sentence could even be lowered to a fine if there were mitigating circumstances, according to his advice which has been issued to magistrates' courts by the Sentencing Guidelines Council.
His guidelines emerged today, as police named the victim of yesterday's fatal stabbing in Oxford Street as Steven Bigby, a 22-year-old from north London.
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Stunned shoppers watched as paramedics tried to save
the victim's life after the Oxford Street attack Shoppers witnessed horrific scenes as two men pounced on Mr Bigby as he left McDonald's, then stabbed him and slit his throat.
People scattered as he stumbled out onto the street and collapsed.
Two men were seen running away from the scene and a blood-stained pen-knife was found outside a bookshop 50 metres away.
It is the fifth fatal stabbing in London since Boris Johnson became mayor less than a fortnight ago, pledging a zero-tolerance policy to knife crime in the capital.
Lord Phillips has said those found in possession
of a knife could be let off with a fine
A spokesman from Scotland Yard said today: "We do not believe that he was targeted. We do not believe that it is related to another crime."
Detectives are today examining footage from CCTV cameras which is believed to have caught the murder on film and are calling for the public to come forward with any pictures of the scene.
Acting Detective Chief Inspector Bob Mahoney from the Met's Homicide and Serious Crime Command, said: "We would be very keen to see these photographs as they could hold key information.
"This attack took place at a peak time in one of the busiest streets in London.
"We are very keen to speak to anyone who was in the Oxford Street area at the time of the incident who either witnessed this violent attack or who saw people running from the area."
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A bloody knife found lying on the street 50 metres away could be the murder weapon
Witnesses claimed the man was stabbed and had his throat cut as shoppers scattered
Oxford Street was sealed off yesterday as paramedics fought to save the victim as hundreds of shoppers and commuters looked on. He was taken to St Thomas' Hospital but died shortly after arrival.
A worker at the HMV music store, which is opposite McDonald's, said: "I heard that first they stabbed him and then lunged back at him and slashed his throat. I can't believe someone would do this in broad daylight. It could have happened to anyone of us. It could have happened to me. It's crazy."
Joe Hill-Wilson, 26, said: "He stumbled into the road. There were lots of paramedics around him giving him CPR, and hundreds of people watching." Another witness said: "So many people were around I can't believe those guys thought they could get away with stabbing someone. You just don't expect something like this to happen
One woman said a member of the public had tried to help the dying man.
She said: "He was on the floor. There was a woman with him, her hands covered in blood. She was trying to help him."
Since January, last year there have been 39 teenage murders in the capital.
The latest killing follows the death of 16-year-old Jimmy Mizen in Lee, South-East London, on Saturday. He was the 13th teenager to be murdered in London this year.
On Sunday, two youths were wounded in a double stabbing in Holloway, North London, and 68 young people under 25 have been killed with guns or knives since the start of the year.
losed of part of the street while paramedics battled to save the man's life
Such a shame this young man dies and then even more that his killer gets away with it....what kind of justice is that???!!!
“I can’t believe they thought they could get away with this in broad daylight.” Ummmm, they DID get away with it. That’s why they thought they could. Sounds like it is law based on ‘feelings.’
A spokesman from Scotland Yard said today: "We do not believe that he was targeted. We do not believe that it is related to another crime."Well, that makes it alright, then. As long as he wasn't TARGETED, then it's perfectly ok to slit the guy's throat.
(How much do the a$$-clowns who run that country get paid? What an easy job.)
“I can’t believe they thought they could get away with this in broad daylight.” Ummmm, they DID get away with it. That’s why they thought they could. Sounds like it is law based on ‘feelings.’
What do you expect from a country whose police officers are wearing ballistic style vests but no firearms for protection and citizens cannot carry weapons for proctection? See picture above.
Saddened but not surprised. When you outlaw the means in which citizens can defend themselves and then soften or completely remove the consequences for such criminal acts, you’re going to get this as a result.
This story has a disconnect. This story is about knife-control and wanting to jail people simply for the possession of knifes (they can't have guns you know). They illustrate the dangers of knifes. If the people were caught that made the stabbing, of course they would go to jail. But this story is advocating jail time for everyone who carries a knife.
First outlaw guns. And they still have murders. So now outlaw knifes.
Yep, very. But what else would you expect from knife-control advocates.
This doesn’t say that the thugs who killed him will only get a fine. I think it means that anyone who wants to protect themselves from thugs by carrying a knife will only get a fine. And that’s not good, according to the wimp writing this. So most of us on this board, we’re the thugs.
Yep. Notice how they tie this in with the election of Boris Johnson, as if this is his fault; ignoring the sickening rule of Red Ken which has lead to this sort of environment. I understand now why despotic societies totally control their mass media. The people who work in it are pathological.
I say this only because if they were white British youths, the judge would throw the book at them and make examples of them.
Simply carrying a pocket knife in Britain is a serious crime nowadays, and slitting someone's throat, killing him...well you have to wonder.
That is a multi-threat jacket: good against both knives and bullets. As you might imagine policemen in the UK face a lot of knives and very few guns.
No description of the thugs? I’m guessing it’s politically incorrect to describe the darlings.
So if you’re part of the general public, just move along. This doesn’t concern you. Don’t be on the lookout for anyone. Back to sleep, you great dozing herds of sheep.
But, if you happened to pose with the perps for autographs and polaroids, please contact us asap; we need your help else we just won’t be able to catch these guys.
I wish Jesus would come back to Earth and stop this shit.
I can't quite figure out what the thrust of this article is. The writer of the article seemed to be more disturbed that people could carry knives than by the fact the someone was killed implying that the killers would get off for killing the guy because the law didn't punish them for carrying knives.
Doesn't matter anyway; all of the important people have bodyguards. Who cares if a few little people get killed in the gun free (and soon to be knife free ) utopia that the morons in Britain have inflicted on themselves.
We can look forward to having our freedoms severely curtailed if Hillary, Obama of McCain gets elected president.
The second issue, that knife carriers will only have to pay a fine is A GOOD IDEA, but it doesn't go far enough. (Don't let the word 'thug' fool you.) What Britian needs to do is lower the charge for gun carriers to a fine, or not make it a crime at all, but this is a good first step.
“police officers are wearing ballistic style vests”
Not just ballistic vests, they are specially constructed to resist knife attacks. Most people don’t know that standard ballistic vests only resist bullets and blunt trauma. Pointy objects go through the weave of standard vests easily. Ice picks and narrow knife blades will punch a vest unless its specially constructed to resist those point punctures.
The Brits are flat crazy. They have given up almost all freedom and gotten little security in return.
What, you mean one of the 4 million security camera’s on the streets of UK cities didn’t catch them?
What, you mean one of the 4 million security cameras on the streets of UK cities didn’t catch them?
England has “subjects” not citizens. A citizen is free and autonomous, a subject is referred to as a member of the public. Reread the article, that phrase “member of the public” is used.
The murder rate by knives is on pace to reach 420 in London. I guess the low rate of murder by gun has simply been replaced by murder by knife.
However, and it pains me to say this, but England accounting methods for crime is so sloppy as to be absolutely useless. When a burglar is caught having committed 12 house burglaries, it’s tallied up a ONE burglary. So when you read that burglaries are so much higher in England than the U.S. - it’s actually much much worse than we think.
Ok, a murder happened. That’s bad in itself. Worse yet is the docile way in which all these “members of the public” took no action to stop the attack nor did they gather eye witness information which could assist the authorities. What was it? Hundreds of subjects going about their business and not one or two of them have a pair?
Brits have accepted their government as their bettors and they are stupidly standing around watching crimes. Probably saying to themselves, “This is crazy.” Of course, if you think of yourself comfortably as a “kept subject” then you never really solve the problems of your life yourself.
England wasn’t always this way. However, with London soon to change its name to Londonistan we Americans better just get used to seeing England as it was in the old black and white movies of the 1930’s. Sorry, they done ain’t coming back. I hope I’m wrong.
Gun laws don’t work! And, apparently, neither do knife laws.
Furthermore, a stabbing occurs and everyone carrying a knife is facing a criminal fine? Totalitarians is, like, so total! LOL!
Yours truly,
The Woim
Well said sportutegrl.
It’s good news that I will apparently only get a fine (for a first offense) if I carry a knife for self-defence in the UK. It used to be a spell in prison.
The picture of the bloody knife got me to thinking: Where did knives learn this anti-social behavior?
The Woim
Britain 3% Muslim
America 3% Muslim
This story has a disconnect. This story is about knife-control and wanting to jail people simply for the possession of knifes (they can't have guns you know). They illustrate the dangers of knifes. If the people were caught that made the stabbing, of course they would go to jail. But this story is advocating jail time for everyone who carries a knife.You're right. I didn't catch that at first, quickly glancing through.
The headline writer clearly wants to tap into the outrage of killers getting away from the scene and twist that around to support for jail-time for carrying any kind of weapon.
They truly have one f'd up society over there. As bad as we are over here, CCW states are increasing, not decreasing. And that's real weapons, not just knives.
People will always kill people, it just happens. Even in maximum security prisons where everything is banned that could possibly be used as a weapon, guess what? Somehow they still manage to make some sort of pointy object with which to kill each other. They could ban everything in England and it isn't going to change the rate of violent crimes.
Had the exact same thought
Sorry to say that you might be right. I went to the Univ of London in the '70s. People would ask me about crime in America, because it was so foreign to them. The only crime I ever worried about was the typical stuff that might happen in tourist areas, such as getting your wallet stolen. Even when I went back in the early '90s, the crime was no where near what it is now.
I'm a big city girl. I understand that crime happens in huge cities such as London, but I don't think it's just the crime that is getting to me - it's the lax punishments, the inability of the innocent to defend themselves, the growing submission to Islam such as no piggy banks, it's all very different from the Britain I longed to visit as a young student of English literature.
We shouldn’t be too far behind. We’re getting ready to install Hussein as our leader!
America 3% Muslim
London is about 10% Muslim.
“I heard that first they stabbed him and then lunged back at him and slashed his throat. I can’t believe someone would do this in broad daylight. It could have happened to anyone of us. It could have happened to me. It’s crazy.”
So this was just random violence? Terrorism? Hopefully whoever wrote this article is the next victim because he/she/it is apparently too politically correct to pass on useful information. It is a propagandist not a journalist.
I wonder would he say that if he was the victim of a stabbing? I'll bet the sob has armed protection and doesn't give a damn about the average person.
Firstly, all cities in history have been multicultural, thats their nature by definition.
Secondly, yes, I forgot, London IS England.Actually, I thought it was the major city of 8 million, which leaves about 40 million in England who dont live in London...
“I have to wonder, with no further information, whether these “thugs” were in fact “Asian youths”, or in other words, Muslims.
I say this only because if they were white British youths, the judge would throw the book at them and make examples of them.”
It only happened a couple of days ago, and two people have just been arrested in the last couple of hours. As such there hasn’t been any judge involved yet.
“Such a shame this young man dies and then even more that his killer gets away with it....what kind of justice is that???!!!”
“Ummmm, they DID get away with it. That’s why they thought they could. Sounds like it is law based on ‘feelings.’”
A little bit quick to rush to judgement there, considering the incident only occurred on Monday!
Police have announced in the last few minutes that two arrests have now been made in connection with the killing, I very much doubt the culprits will ‘get away with it’.
Judgment is ok, as is having strong opinions. They can change, of course, as more information is gathered.
What I read was that knife-wielding was somewhat ok over there and they weren’t going to prosecute those they found carrying knives. Is that not what the article said?
Well, I have opinions about that and am actually quite judgmental about that kind of justice.
“What I read was that knife-wielding was somewhat ok over there and they weren’t going to prosecute those they found carrying knives. Is that not what the article said?
Well, I have opinions about that and am actually quite judgmental about that kind of justice.”
Indeed, although the quote you commented on was in reference to the murder which is obviously a seperate issue.
It is interesting to read the views on this thread, however, as usually when there is any story relating to UK laws on knifes (or guns) the almost unanimous feeling is that they are too strict and that it is ridiculous to prosecute someone for simply carrying a knife. You, on the other hand, are saying the opposite. I believe US laws in this respect are much less strict?
Secondly, yes, I forgot, London IS England.Actually, I thought it was the major city of 8 million, which leaves about 40 million in England who dont live in London...
First, I was replying to a poster, not you, who was discussing "Londonistan" which has a Muslim population of around 10%. Get it? Not "UKistan", not "Englandistan" but "Londonistan". Can you see why my posting of the percentage of Muslims in London was much more relevant than the previously posted percentage of Muslims in England?
Second, it is totally untrue that "all cities in history have been multicultural, thats their nature by definition." In fact, that's one of the silliest things I've seen posted. You might want to look at current places like Tokyo with a population of over 12 million who ethnically are 99.5+% Japanese. There are many other modern examples let alone the fact that historically many cities were monocultural.
Thanks for playing, though.
No need to be so sneery and pompous,never make a statement that be counterargued?. You want to tell me Im wrong, fine. No need for the superiority.
Ok, not all cities in history, but most. ‘All’ was I admit a gross overstatement and sloppy history on my part. But going back to the days of the Romans, Greeks and even further back, cities usually have been places where disparate groups of different races, religions and cultures met and meet to trade and some to live within those cities.
I would also strongly disagree that ‘most cities’ have historically been mono-cultural.Look at the great cities of history and today and you will find that most cities, not all,but most have not been mono-cultural. Perhaps not a mass of multi-culture with no prominent racial/cultural group, but certainly even if one group is larger and predominates the others, these cities have always had a sizeable immigrant minority. In past time, they came as traders, now they come merely as economic migrants.
Ancient Rome or Athens,medieval Paris or modern London...
Perhaps multicultural IS the wrong term, I would and should have said multi-racial, I will happily grant you that.
Take a look at your first post to me in reply to my simple statement of fact...and then look up the word projection.
they've already passed a de facto ban for Katana and Wakizashi there. So knives are next after guns and swords.
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