Posted on 05/12/2008 7:29:53 PM PDT by old-and-old
SENECA, Mo. - Nearly half of the 21 people killed by a tornado that smashed parts of Oklahoma and Missouri over the weekend died in cars, troubling experts who say vehicles are among the worst places to be during a twister.
"It's like taking a handful of Matchbox cars and rolling them across the kitchen floor," said Sgt. Dan Bracker of the Missouri State Highway Patrol, surveying the damage in Newton County near the Oklahoma line, the hardest hit area. "This is devastating."
... Lie flat in a ditch or low spot Weather experts say motorists and their passengers should find a sturdy shelter or lie flat in a ditch or other low spot, covering their heads with arms, coats or blankets if the tornado is moving in their direction. Overpasses and bridges should also be avoided — the overpass can create a wind-tunnel effect, and bridges can collapse.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
I doubt they were seeking shelter. Probably trying to get away or didn’t even know one was coming.
And we all know what that is, don't we?
Ummm, isn't a tornado already a wind tunnel?
The older overpasses had a “shelter” at the back. The new ones around here don’t. I don’t know if it’s a better design but I imagine the homeless aren’t too fond of them.
a bridge would have been my first try, it seems (or seemed) sturdy enough to hold. Now, however, I shall seek a ditch and cover my head and body with a table or something
Apparently trained by the Barack Obama 'those people' School of Public Speaking, these 'experts' don't seem to realize that to couch their admonition in such terms, is necessarily taken by anyone in the general public as, "well, they're not talking about me...I'm smarter/better/faster than all those other people."
The correct statement is...
"driving during severe weather is extremely dangerous for anyone because even experts have no idea where a tornado will form or what direction it will go."
Given a choice to hide like a hamster in a mobile home or drive I’m blazin’ in my Nissan. But I’ll be wearing my seatbelt.
LOL. You in a swale with a card table from ol' Dale!
Maybe this is so but I've only seen one overpass collapse. It was good weather but just buckled.
The reason overpasses are dangerous is that they usually are elevated, and the tornado’s wind velocity rapidly increases with height. So you’re safer at ground level.
Tornadic winds can get under a mobile home to the extent that it becomes able to create enough lift, caused by eddy currents in the wind's uneven pattern, that it becomes a flying object.
Tornadoes don't seek out mobile home parks....that's just where the most obvious/visible damage usually occurs.
Laying flat on the ground, hopefully lying under whatever is close at hand that's capable of shielding you from flying whatever, and gives you little or no aerodynamic induced 'lift', would be about the best shot.
I saw something on the news the other night, and the point about bridges isn’t them collapsing, but that they channel the wind and so it’s stronger. I’m probably not explaining that well (hey, it’s late her in Florida!) I too would have thought an overpass was a good place to hide, and I have to admit that if I saw a tornado coming the last thing I would WANT to do would be to get out of my car.
susie
Beneath an underpass, wings can be multiplied by mad ventouri effects. A 200 mph wind might be zoomed up to 600 mph in that confined space, especially in the corners where people might hide.
Winds, not wings.
The English word the AP writer is looking for is "altogether". Who is writing copy these days?
would breathing also be a problem at such speeds?
I am sure holding on is...
Thank you. I knew there was a physics answer to that!
susie
Third opinion:
Know your surroundings. Know your roads.
Drive like a bat out of you-know-where at a 90 degree angle to the storm’s path. In most storms that means due northwest or due southeast as the funnels generally move toward the northeast.
I don't know what ditches are like everywhere but around here they aren't very deep.
It's been a while since I worked a wind tunnel, but this doesn't sound right.
As I recall, the acceleration going through a venturi is proportional to the decrease in area.
If you assume a "typical" underpass has a four-foot railing, and a sixteen foot opening, and half the air that wants to go where the railing is goes over and half goes under, the acceleration would be roughly "two over eighteen", or about 10 percent. This will be diminished by "turbulent boundary layer" effects.
Someone who actually knows what they are talking about is free to correct me.
One of the times, I did look for a ditch.
Get out of the car, jump in the ditch, lay down. Tornado comes, winds lift the car up, then it falls on top of you and kills you.
From an Oklahoman, as Gary England says, get below ground if you can. If you can’t, wear shoes and long sleeve shirts==get football helmet on those small kids, and don’t let them out of your sight.. A bar ditch is OK, a lake or stream is better—As this article states, stay away from the cars...
Yup, my thoughts as well. MOre than likely we will never have to make that decision, but back in 1994, we were hit by the tornado that leveled downtown Lancaster (TX). It was scary as we huddled in our hallway, but we came thru pretty well (house had about 48K damage but we had an insurance check in our hands the next day!) Ever since then I have been much less afraid of tornadoes than I was before...altho I’m not volunteering to do it again!
susie
Are these schools located in all 57 states?
Don’t do it man...park your car on the side of the road and seek a low spot...........
When a tornado is bearing down on you,carefully bend over, put your head between your legs.......... and kiss your a$$ goodbye.
good reminder post
LOL
susie
J School graduates from publik skools
I saw the cars and vans. Large tree limbs sticking out of the windshield, smashed cars over a hundred yards from the road in the pastures, trees completely crushed several autos.
Today they took one of our firefighters off life support today, he lost his life as a true hero. He was running into a house to warn residents of the impending tornado.
Congress needs to pass a law mandating that cars be twister-safe!!!
The example of “bridge ventouri effect” that I saw on tv postulated people hiding up in the narrow wedge-shaped space between the bridge overpass, and the sloped embankments on the side. The wind hits that tunnel and shears up that slope into that V-shaped wedge, right where the people are hiding from debris etc, adn whammo. That wind multiplies and rockets the people right out of there, over and through dirt cement and steel.
I am happy for you to know your Mother was safe...it took three days for me to find out if my Mother and Sister survived the tornado of 1979.
They keep me on guard during bad weather. I got trapped in a mobile home once. Very scary.
What happened is the well known video of people in Kansas sheltering in a tornado under an overpass.
The tornado was EXTREMELY weak. Anyway, led to the weird idea that there were magical protective properties of overpasses; in the OKC tornado there were people THAT LEFT THEIR HOUSES To go to an overpass. A number were maimed or killed there.
Great link at 18!
Yes, see 18.
Yup, I was really glad to be in a solid brick house. We were in DeSoto and had damage but nothing like Lancaster (lots of old wood frame, pier and beam homes—moved right off their foundations).
And I grew up in a mobile home!
susie
Thanks!
susie
I think the advise is crap. A really safe place in a tornado while driving on the interstate is to get out of your car and run up the encline under a highway bridge and then wedge yourself between two of the bridge girders. If you stay down on the road or the shoulder, then yeah, that’s a dumb place to be.
Nope. See 18 and 35 for why not.
basically a vacuum ...... one big sucker ....
My entire family now lives in Georgia, but we grew up in Edmond, Oklahoma. Gary England was a household name. If Gary said “go”, you went!
I was thinking of the case where the wind was blowing roughly parallel to the course of the road, 90 degrees to the bridge.
If the tornado were oriented such that the wind was blowing more-or-less directly into that area where the ground and the roadway come together, that I suppose could get pretty nasty.
Yes, I remember those pictures. I agree, you need to be underground. And, having list most of my life in TX I’m amazed that I have never had or known anyone who had a basement or tornado shelter!
susie
LOL. That would be just my luck!
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