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Former U.S. senator Hart says McCain will divide Republicans
The Topeka Capitol-Journal ^ | May 11, 2008

Posted on 05/11/2008 7:00:09 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

LINCOLN, Neb. — Former Colorado senator and two-time presidential candidate Gary Hart told Nebraska Democrats that Barack Obama will heal the national party, while John McCain's nomination may cause a rift among Republicans.

"There's a real struggle for the soul of the Republican Party under way," Hart said Saturday before the state Democratic Party's annual Morrison-Exon Day Dinner. About 450 people attended the party's largest fundraising event.

Hart, 71, sought the Democratic presidential nomination in 1984 and 1988, and was a U.S. senator from 1975 to 1987.

Hart said the Republican Party is going to find its ties to religious conservatives, neoconservative foreign policy and libertarian taxpayers at odds with its traditional politics — a balanced budget, caution in foreign policy and less government interference in private lives.

"Sooner or later," he said, "the very, very deep division of the Republican Party is going to come out."

He said the result will be fewer Republicans voting in November and fewer supporting their party's candidate.

Hart, who was has endorsed Obama, also said the Illinois senator will get the Democratic nomination over Hillary Rodham Clinton — and that will be good for the U.S.

"What Hillary Clinton offers is a return to the '90s, while Obama would take us into the 21st century," he said, adding that it's a generational contest with few policy differences between candidates.

"I believe we do need a generational change with a fresh new leader with new supporters offering revolutionary change," he said.

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy; Politics/Elections; US: Arizona; US: Colorado
KEYWORDS: 2008; 2008election; arizona; barackobama; colorado; democrats; dnctalkingpoint; dnctalkingpoints; donnarice; election; election2008; elections; garyhart; gop; hillary; johnmccain; mccain; mediawingofthednc; monkeybusiness; obama; partisanmediashills; presstitutes; rino; smearmachine
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
President Bill Clinton was a moderate republican in comparison to Illinois Senator Barack Hussein Muhammad Obama,

Oh, so this time the sky is really falling?

The number of times I heard that Clinton was the literal anti-Christ, and that mother Russia would be running the US from Moscow under a Clinton presidency, etc, and etc...

Are you seriously telling me that there is little or no difference between Obama and a war hero?!

Not remotely. I'm telling you that I am not giving my vote the guy that made it illegal for Right To Life or the NRA to say a candidate's name in an ad within 60 days of an election.

41 posted on 05/11/2008 7:49:58 PM PDT by MichiganMan (So you bought that big vehicle and now want to whine about how much it costs to fill it? Seriously?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t agree with Hart’s comments about Obama, but there’s some truth in what he says about McCain and divisions among the Republicans. You can see some of those divisions in this thread.

By the way, Donna Rice, the model who appears with Hart in those photos and helped end his presidential ambitions, is today a conservative and an effective anti-pornography activist.

42 posted on 05/11/2008 7:53:57 PM PDT by FFranco
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To: nmh
I got a fundraising appeal from McStain. I marked over it in in a thick black marker:


And sent it back in the postage-paid envelope. This is a deal-breaker for me. It's either Bob Barr or the Constitution Party unless McCain changes his stance on global warming.


43 posted on 05/11/2008 7:57:04 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (I'll vote for Juan McStain if and when he leaves the Worldwide Church of Global Warming.)
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To: pillut48
Actually, the NuRepublicans (all those ‘moderates, democrats’ etc) support McCain. It’s the CONSERVATIVES who have the problem with McCain’s liberal leanings.

Where McCain will get his best mileage with conservatives is dangling the contrast between the SCOTUS nominees he says he is likely to offer up with the ones that Obama is likely to offer up. Even given my political animus to McCain, I will admit its a compelling point.

Of course precedent dictates that McCain, true to his "Maverick" title would throw us under the bus with a liberal nominee just to get a little love from the NYT.

44 posted on 05/11/2008 8:04:14 PM PDT by MichiganMan (So you bought that big vehicle and now want to whine about how much it costs to fill it? Seriously?)
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To: Dick Holmes

Tells you what I know about D politics Of course, I was exactly two and six during those elections. ;)

It’s kinda funny that Hart had a hand in creating the nomination process that ended up screwing him over though.. Talk about delicious irony.

45 posted on 05/11/2008 8:07:36 PM PDT by Accygirl (My Savior already came to the Earth.. His name was Jesus, not Obama)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It is amazing how the press continues to listen to liberal men who can’t keep their john thompson in their knickers.

46 posted on 05/11/2008 8:15:03 PM PDT by aliquando (A Scout is T, L, H, F, C, K, O, C, T, B, C, and R.)
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To: Old Sarge

A freeper has noted, and I completely agree, that the GOP needs the primary system the rats ‘enjoy’.

With the modification of closed GOP primaries in every state.

The SD system would bring about accountability in the party, and we’d get better candidates if they weren’t subject to the gamed primary system we currently use.

47 posted on 05/11/2008 8:15:39 PM PDT by txhurl (Hillary is realizing that she's just another womyn who slept with Bill Clinton for nothing)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Barack Obama will heal the national party..."

Correct. But only by totally surrendering it to the most radical elements of the AA faction.

48 posted on 05/11/2008 8:25:30 PM PDT by There's millions of'em (I will not surrender to the Libs by refusing to vote for McCain... I am an American fighting man.)
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To: txflake

We need closed primaries, but more importantly we need to ditch the cockamamie winner-take-all system.

Look at Missouri. One guy gets 35% of the vote and he gets ALL of the delegates and the two other guys who both got over 30% get NONE?

Ridiculous. The Dems are right to do at least partial proportionate representation. We wouldn’t be stuck with McStain without the winner-take-all system.


49 posted on 05/11/2008 8:35:46 PM PDT by County Agent Hank Kimball (I'll vote for Juan McStain if and when he leaves the Worldwide Church of Global Warming.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
” McCain will divide Republicans”

And Hussein Mohammad Obama or Clinton will unite the Republicans.

50 posted on 05/11/2008 8:40:33 PM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"I believe we do need a generational change with a fresh new leader with new supporters offering revolutionary change," he said.

As an Iranian American where have I heard that rhetoric before???
51 posted on 05/11/2008 9:58:20 PM PDT by parisa
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Former Colorado senator and two-time presidential candidate Gary Hart told Nebraska Democrats that Barack Obama will heal the national party, while John McCain's nomination may cause a rift among Republicans.

How utterly ridiculous. It's the Rats who are being split in two. Blacks and young eggheads on one side, older whites and younger uneducated whites on the other side.

52 posted on 05/11/2008 10:15:23 PM PDT by AlaskaErik (I served and protected my country for 31 years. Democrats spent that time trying to destroy it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well I thank Mr Hart for telling us all about our party.

53 posted on 05/11/2008 10:34:23 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Obama: America is the greatest country on the earth, Help me bring change.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Will ? That’s a newsflash.

54 posted on 05/11/2008 11:43:08 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: County Agent Hank Kimball
Bob Barr or the Constitution Party

so has the lp made the decision yet? That kinda pisses me off nearly the last minute bob barr says he is a libertarian(he's not) and gets the nomination. I can go along with CP tho. I think the LP and the CP are the only ones that can correct our situation during these next 4 years. but as it stands I dont think either party(d/r) can fix anything and we are going to have a bad 4 years no matter who is president. I also know lp/cp dont have a snowballs chance in winning.

55 posted on 05/12/2008 1:36:49 AM PDT by Liberty2007 ( Send your Prayers to Lebanon and Israel)
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To: stravinskyrules

::yawn:: he says change twice and also puts in “Revolutionary change”. What the hell does he mean? More welfare, more money for No Child Left Behind? Higher Gas Prices? A revolutionary change would be a drastic change in our political system.

All Obama is is another “I can heal” preacher from the Democrat pulpit of politics.

56 posted on 05/12/2008 1:46:39 AM PDT by Merta (They Call Me The Ranting Man)
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To: depressed in 06
I want . . Freedom of the press to be the right not to be lied to.
You are confused. So very seriously confused about the First Amendment, that you are not thinking any more clearly about it than I was before the mid-1990s, when I began to see through the system by which the "journalistic objectivity" con is perpetrated. And since I was already in my fifties by then, I have every reason to understand how you might see things the way you do.

Freedom of the press is much more like "the right to lie to you" than it is like "the right not to be lied to." And that is a good thing.

In the founding era, nobody claimed that a newspaper was objective - no more so than you would take me seriously if I claimed to be objective - or I, you. That was because the newspapers were actually independent of each other back then. Independent of each other, but not independent of the political factions of the day. For example, one paper was sponsored by Thomas Jefferson, to attack the politics of Alexander Hamilton - and to reply to the attacks on him by the newspaper sponsored by Hamilton himself. The idea of either of those newspapers ceding to the other respect for being "objective" - which after all implies wisdom - is laughable.

Why, then, does our culture have the idea that journalism should be, even could be, objective? Simple - the telegraph and the Associated Press transformed the newspaper business - and our culture - beginning back in the middle of the Nineteenth Century. Prior to the advent of the telegraph, newspaper printers got their news about the same way that the other people in their towns got theirs - by word of mouth and by getting physical copies of other newspapers, delivered by sailboat and horse-drawn wagon. So in principle, any given local might easily have heard any given news item before the local newspaper printed it. Accordingly, most newspapers were not dailies, may were weeklies and some had no deadline at all and just printed when the printer was good and ready. Making it all the more likely that people would get news by word of mouth before the newspaper reported it to them.

Then along came the Associated Press. Suddenly the newspaper printer had a direct line to newspapers in all the other towns and cities of the country - and to reporters working directly for the AP who aggressively got the news from ships arriving from Europe before those ships even docked. The AP was an aggressive monopolizer of the use of the telegraph for transmission of the news; it cut exclusive deals with the telegraph lines which froze competitors out. That made the AP the target of criticism and challenge, since it was so obviously an unprecedented concentration of nationwide public influence. The AP proceeded to demonstrate that influence by deflecting those charges by asserting that since the Association was composed of member newspapers which famously did not agree on much of anything, the Association was - wait for it - "objective."

That was, is, and always will be absurd. First, of course, because thinking yourself to be objective is arguably the best possible definition of the word "subjectivity." And secondly, because the AP, and all of those "independent-thinking" papers which made up the AP, was selling something. The same thing - news, before you could get it from any other source. So the AP and every one of its members had the identical incentive to sell the idea that journalism - all journalism - was objective. How else to vouch for the news which suddenly was a pervasive, dominant theme of your newspaper which had not actually had that function before - when that news did not originate with your newspaper's own reporters but with those of a nominal competitor in a distant city? So with the AP, newspapers suddenly had not only the motive but the opportunity to claim objectivity as long as they did not compete with any other AP newspaper on the basis of objectivity claims. And the more opportunity they had to make that claim, the less compunction was necessary about taking care to vindicate the claim by actually being objective.

So what is the actual effect of the claim by all of journalism that all of journalism is objective? The actual effect of the claim of objectivity, running as it has for a century and a half, is to establish in custom the idea that journalists are a breed apart from we-the-people - more virtuous, more knowledgeable, and more civic-minded - and thus entitled not only to be listened to with respect by people who pay for the privilege but entitled to special privileges such as "shield" laws granting reporters the right to withhold the names of sources from courts of law which any citizen would be under legal compunction to yield up. And entitled to special rights to speak out about candidates for public office, to be denied, under McCain-Feingold, to we-the-people. Is there any real virtue in having our government officers selected by vote of the whole people on a date certain, when it would be far more manageable to simply read in the newspapers what the newspapers say is in the public interest? Or, for that matter, what the newspapers say the public thinks, based on "public opinion polls?" From the POV of the journalist - or anyone who thinks that journalists are more objective and hence wiser and more virtuous than the public at large - the answer would have to be, "No." What could be more patent than that the conceit of journalistic objectivity is profoundly subversive of democratic principle?

Before the abolition of the Fairness Doctrine and the rise of the Internet generally and in particular, the public discourse was largely controlled by monolithic AP journalism. Journalism had extremely broad latitude to say whatever they wanted so say, and call that "objectivity." The most fundamental desire of journalism is to attract an attentive audience, and to be able to exploit that ability for fun and profit. The linchpin of the influence of AP journalism being perishable news - news that will soon no longer be new - journalism inexorably presses upon the public the idea that the news is important. The more important you think the news is, the less attention you will pay to things which change less, or not at all. That is why AP journalism is inherently anti conservative. Journalism also is maximally important when there is a crisis requiring public notice and action. But of course a putative crisis "requiring" government action implies that the powers-that-be have not already taken whatever action is needed, which is why the public should attend to the journalist and influence the politician accordingly. Again that makes the journalist anti conservative.

Another way of stating the above paragraph is to note that journalism's rules include "There's nothing more worthless than yesterday's newspaper," and "If it bleeds, it leads." The former rule simply says that only what the public doesn't know yet matters, and the latter says that the bad news is most important. Journalism's rules also enjoin the editor that "Man Bites Dog" is news, and "Dog Bites Man" is not news. Which means that business-as-usual is not news, and if anything is reported in the newspaper it is probably not typical of what normally characterizes society. Most people never, in their entire lives, commit a murder or even know anyone who did commit a murder - but you will find plentiful stories about murders, and demands for the disarming of the general public, but rarely mention of how statistically rare murder actually is or how frequently the law-abiding use or, more commonly merely threaten to use, weapons to prevent crime. Likewise if our troops suffer casualties and deaths in Iraq that is news - even though the overwhelming majority of our troops return from Iraq without a scratch, and also with scant if any notice by journalism. All that comports with the rules of journalism - but the rules of journalism comport with the interest of journalism,. The rules of journalism purport to be about the public interest, but actually are only about interesting the public. And the two things are not only different, they are often in contradiction. So we see that journalism is anti conservative.

Since journalism not only has the inherent incentive to say what it wants to say, and since under the Associated Press regime journalism coheres as a single identifiable entity with identifiable interests and has a dominant position in the public discourse by which it is easily capable of stonewalling or otherwise dismissing contradiction, it is only natural to expect that journalism will promote those who scratch its back, and oppose those who do not. Conservatives are those who are least prone to scratch journalism's back. In this context the most satisfactory definition of American conservatism was implied in Theodore Roosevelt's famous speech at the Sorbonne in France in 1911:

"It is not the critic who counts . . . the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena . . . who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds . . .
That speech defines American conservatism - respect for those who take responsibility and work to a bottom line - and its opposite, which is criticism and second guessing of those who take responsibility to get things done. The latter is AP journalism's natural predilection, and it naturally tends to undercut the businessman and the policeman and the military man. There are others besides journalists who second guess the people who get things done, and journalists call them "liberals," or "progressives," or "moderates" - essentially any positive label but "objective." "Objective" is the label which journalists reserve to themselves but anyone who currently is labeled a "liberal" or a "progressive" can get a job as a journalist and instantly receive the "objective journalist" label without any change in his/her political perspective. George Stephanopolis is the outstanding example of the phenomenon; there is emphatically not any example of a conservative ever becoming recognized as an "objective" journalist.

It is interesting to note that American conservatives conserve a tradition which was started, not in the mists of time as in nations generally, but in a specific founding era in the second half of the Eighteenth Century. American constitutional norms do trace back to English antecedents, but they are codified as British and other nation's traditions have not been. The preamble to the US Constitution is a mission statement for America, and after all the specifics about providing for the common defense and so forth, it concludes with the nut of the matter, " . . . [to] secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity." American conservatives, therefore, conserve liberty - which, considering that liberty allows people to do things in different ways, and to do different things, than were done in the past, is such a unique form of "conservatism" that adherents to it have questioned whether that is even a proper term for it.

Indeed, the word which (anywhere outside the US, as recently as a decade ago) describes "American conservatism" is "liberalism." link Well one might ask, "how did the US acquire a definition of "liberalism" which is opposed to what is in America called "conservatism?" I make no pretense of specific knowledge of the event, but I have a hypothesis which I would defend against challenge until such time as more specific evidence is cited than has come to my attention. First, I would note that the term "socialism" would, on etymological grounds, be assumed to relate to support for organic societal decisions rather than - as we well know to be the actual case - relating to government control of things which in America are traditionally left to societal decisions made, perhaps most notably, in the marketplace. So I would argue that the term "socialism" was dishonestly coined by its proponents. And, everywhere outside the US, socialism was far more accepted by the public at large than it was in the US. We have had governments which were socialist in intent - FDR with his "New Deal" and LBJ and his "Great Society" perhaps most prominently - but at no time has a socialist run for POTUS openly advocating socialism as such, and won. Indeed there is exactly one avowedly Socialist senator - Bernie Sanders of Vermont - and he caucuses, surprise of surprises, with the senate Democrats. Essentially all of whom are readily classified as "liberals."

My inference is that since "socialism" was a failed brand name in the US but not elsewhere, people in the US who had the ability to rebrand socialist nostrums, and wanted to do so, seized upon the co-opting of the term for the political theory which already was popular. Associated Press journalism - especially in conjunction with academia, which as a group are critics and not doers just as reporters are - fits that bill exactly. It is a theory which seems to fit the facts as I know them perfectly - socialist-minded people had motive, in the US, and opportunity, to make the change. Certainly, or so it seems to me, it would have been impossible without at least the acquiescence, and probably the active support, of journalism. There would have been far less incentive for socialists in any other locale than the United States to make that change.

We see the process of the creation of a new word - a neologism - out of whole cloth springing out of the Democratic reaction to the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth campaign of 2004. In that case, the SBVT organization counted among its members the entire chain of command in Vietnam above John Kerry, and all his fellow officers on the other Swift Boats in Kerry's naval unit. If you wanted to ask anyone else but John Kerry and his subordinates on his boat, on the one hand, and the SBVT on the other, you would be embarrassed for want of anyone who could speak of about Kerry's performance on the basis of direct knowledge. You have to either believe one side or the other, and the SBVT group is far more numerous, and was more highly credentialed at the time and place in question, than Lt. John Kerry and his subordinates were. And their story was more consistent over time, and internally, than Kerry's story was - considering how certain Kerry was that he had been sent on a mission into Cambodia by a president who hadn't been inaugurated yet! Nevertheless, AP journalism and the rest of the Democratic smear machine has created, and imposed on the national dialog, the term "swiftboating" defined as the irresponsible and unjustified criticism of a Democrat.

So we have seen the imposition of a story line and a word meaning implemented before our very eyes, in real time. What reason is there to doubt that the same or similar things have been done in the past, when we didn't have the Internet and talk radio to help us keep our sanity when we thought that "objective" journalists were cooking the books! By the accounts of Ann Coulter and M. Stanton Evans, the coining of the word "McCarthyism" was done in exactly the same fashion, and with no more justification than the coining of "swiftboating" was done. And thus I have little doubt that the inversion of the meaning of the word "liberalism" was done the same way, by the same sort of people.

And "liberalism" is not the only word whose meaning has been inverted; the words "society" and "public" have received similar treatment. If you hear a "liberal" speak of "society" your very first impulse should be to question whether or not the speaker means anything other than government. Except in the absence of freedom, the two are not synonyms, but that is how the socialist "liberal" uses the word "society." And the socialist "liberal" uses the word "public" to exactly the same intent.

57 posted on 05/12/2008 5:21:54 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (Thomas Sowell for President)
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To: ken21
"but when mccccccccccain speaks to la raza are you going to vote for mcccccccccccain?

Two words........BOB BARR.

58 posted on 05/12/2008 5:25:46 PM PDT by Godebert
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion

Very profound, point made and taken.

Profundity in a one liner is seldom achieved.

59 posted on 05/12/2008 7:11:13 PM PDT by depressed in 06 (Bolshecrat, the amoral party of what if and whine.)
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