This is almost as crazy as picking a fight with the IRS...
Posted on 05/11/2008 5:28:02 PM PDT by Dawnsblood
A conservative legal-advocacy group is enlisting ministers to use their pulpits to preach about election candidates this September, defying a tax law that bars churches from engaging in politics.
Alliance Defense Fund, a Scottsdale, Ariz., nonprofit, is hoping at least one sermon will prompt the Internal Revenue Service to investigate, sparking a court battle that could get the tax provision declared unconstitutional. Alliance lawyers represent churches in disputes with the IRS over alleged partisan activity.
The action marks the latest attempt by a conservative organization to help clergy harness their congregations to sway elections. The protest is scheduled for Sunday, Sept. 28, a little more than a month before the general election, in a year when religious concerns and preachers have been a regular part of the political debate.
It also comes as the IRS has increased its investigations of churches accused of engaging in politics. Sen. Barack Obama's denomination, the United Church of Christ, has said it was under investigation after it allowed the Democratic presidential candidate to address 10,000 church members last year. Last summer, the tax agency said it was reviewing complaints against 44 churches for activities in the 2006 election cycle. Churches found to be in violation can be fined or lose their tax exemptions.
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
Last summer = 10 months ago.
2006 election cycle = ~24 months ago
"reviewing complaints" = no action
Oh wait, we've been waiting for hate crime laws to be nullified under that amendment too. I guess that amendment is irrelevant too.
The IRS stinks. If ALL churches would defy them, they would not be able to investigate and prosecute ANY of them. Therefore, I support this move. Everyone is afraid of the IRS and the so-called changes Congress made a while back to make the IRS more “kind and gentle” were a bunch of meaningless nonsense. The IRS is as mean and cruel as ever. We all have our stories.
Those evil mormons again?
Except that there is NO LAW barring churches from political activity.
You shouldn't.
Restrictions on of freedom of speech and religion guarantees of the 1st Amendment is an unintended consequence of the 16th Amendment. The power to tax is the power to destroy. Witness the exhorbitant taxes on drugs. Just another tool to increase criminal penalities. Threats of being subject to taxation is enough to stifle churches from freedom of speech.
Have you ever considered why freedom of speech and freedom of religion are *both* in the 1st Amendment *together*! Because political speech from the pulpit was normal behavior at the founding of our nation. How else to societal issues get aired? A controlled media? That's a joke. No, churches with freedom to speak politically are the only defense against a federal govt gone wild.
Repeal the 16th Amendment and let people have the freedom of speech and religion that the Bill of Rights guarantees.
If this rule was truly in effect, both Clinton in 1992-2000 and Obama in 2008 wouldn’t have been allowed to stand at the pulpit of black churches and espouse their propaganda.
I seem to remember seeing pictures of Kerry adressing a congregation or two.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/rednecktexan/KerryChurch3.jpg
This pic was originally part of an AP story about IRS’s interest in politics and churches, but the article has expired from their archive.
Here’s a couple of good pictures.
This is almost as crazy as picking a fight with the IRS...
This law came into being in 1956, when LBJ sought to silence 501(c)3 organizations. Before that, there was NO IRS surveillance of sermons for political content. This silencing of preachers flies in the face of the First Amendment. Of course, John McCain can be depended on to defend the First Amendment!!!
Earlier than 1951, the churches all across America should have been able to see all of this coming. If just the newly founded churches from that time would have declined to file for 501c3, the codes would not have stood.
The churches should have made the protest at that time. I doubt many of them ever stopped to read the IRS codes coming out.
We continue to recommend to new congregations that they NEVER incorporate or file for 501c3. Operate as a Biblical church with the Bible only as the church “constitution and bilaws.”
perhaps you have heard of www.hushmoney.org?
Chances are they would select several churches and make examples of them, causing all others to cower. That is the general way the IRS works when they suspect any kind of “revolt” against them.
Perhaps if a Democrat were to lead the battle, the IRS would drop dead over shock that a liberal church , churches, have been doing this since Martin Luther King’s days. There never have been any consequences. But, a Dem leading the charge, who would have thunk it? During our Revolution, pastors talked politics all the time.
Want to explain to us, IRS what all those Democrat Politicans are doing speaking at Black churchs every election season if this is the law?
Yes, let's investigate Jeremiah Wright, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Hillary Clinton, Barack Hussein Obama...all of these charlatans have addressed churches with political messages. They are definitely mixing religion and politics, so let's have at it: put these race card playing hoaxters under the microscope.
Why? Please defend your position on this issue.
But that's different. Clinton and Obama are Democrats, you see . . .
Gummint can’t put up with churches talking about politics.
Can’t stand the competition.
Or the moral authority.
I expect the Saudi funders of Wahhabi American mosques would agree that unlimited political activity by tax exempt religious institutions is a fine idea.
Yes, it was that scum, LBJ, the Clinton of his generation, who pulled that and many other various stunts that Americans are still left holding the bag on today.
Except that there is NO LAW barring churches from political activity.
In an effort to silence political opposition, Lyndon Johnson was able to attach an amendment to a bill that put an end to that.
Isn't it interesting that only "religious" 501(c)3 organizations are silenced. All others are able to say whatever they want. And isn't it interesting that only white churches are investigated...particularly those of the conservative, or republican persuasion. Black churches, and those associated with dimoRATS have free reign to say what they want.
The reason I agree with this law is because I don’t think leftist churches should be getting a free ride tax-wise while promoting anti-USA BS. I do think that the selective enforcement of this law merits it being struck down because it violates the equal abuse under the law provisions of the 14th Amendment.
You know, the funny thing about freedom, and free speech, is that it has to apply to all, or it applies to none. What you are advocating in “view point” discrimination. As detestable as the liberal/leftist churches are, I have to grant them the same rights that I want to enjoy, or no one can enjoy them. That is the hard reality of the situation.
Can anyone imagine Thomas Jefferson enacting fines on a church if it were preaching against his rival? In fact, does anyone think that Jefferson would have supported the federal government pointing a gun at the head of any citizen who refused to pay tribute to the federal government? Refuse to pay your taxes, resist the arrest, the federal government will kill you. This is not freedom, it’s tyranny.
pnh102, It’s obvious you don’t fully understand the 1st Amendment. This is a clear violation of the 1st.
How so? In practice, the First Amendment only applies to anyone who doesn't mouth off a conservative viewpoint. Why is it only these churches that are persecuted for getting into politics? Either enforce the law for everyone or strike it down.
I can't imagine T.J. condoning an income tax, let alone an IRS, and all of the "voluntary" filing of private information involved.
There ya go!
I file electronically...does the paper flier thingy still insult our intelligence with the opening statement. "Our voluntary system of blah blah is greatest in the world"
?
I imagine it does, but I haven’t used paper for a while, either.
If we discover that the Wahabees like the 2nd Amendment, you wanna repeal that one too?
That said, the Scriptures do teach that we should pray for all our leaders and to "render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." I submit that one can legitimately proclaim from pulpit that a conscientious believer would examine the positions of the available candidates, comparing them to what is taught in the Scriptures. One should then cast one's ballot accordingly.
I do not agree with the law, and I strongly dislike the unbalanced enforcement that allows liberal and/or minority preachers being allowed to campaign from the pulpit while conservatives are required to obey the law.
???
A conservative legal-advocacy group is enlisting ministers to use their pulpits to preach about election candidates this September, defying a tax law that bars churches from engaging in politics.
The IRS law does not bar churches from engaging in politics. It only bars 501c3 non-profit organizations from engaging in politics. Churches need to decide if they want to be churches or 501c3 organizations, they can’t be both.
I haven't heard or seen you around in what seems like forever! Nice to see you're still here!
Ah, now I see what you’re trying to say, albeit you’re doing it in an unclear way. Even so, you demonstrate a lack of understanding WRT the 1st.
The 1st forbids Congress from passing any laws that prohibit the free exercise of religion. That means any law that does that is (or should be) null and void. The 501(c)(3) law does that, so that law should be thrown out, if the elitists in fedgov were actually obeying their Constitutional limits.
To conclude that law should be enforced on all churches, even if you’re trying to make the point that it is enforced unevenly now, is to totally misunderstand the 1st Amendment. You’re trying to be cute, but take a hint: That ain’t workin’ for ya.
So the 501(c)(3) law actually shuts down churches and bans the parishes of said churches from engaging in religious activity?
And you're telling me I don't understand the 1st Amendment.
You’ve gone from unsuccessfully trying to be cute, to throwing up strawmen. Come with a legitimate logical argument if you want to continue.
You have failed to prove your assertion that the the 501(c)(3) rule, as you claim, prevents people from exercising their rights to worship freely. The only way this could be true is if churches which do "get political" are shut down and the parishioners are actively disallowed from worshiping. Does this happen or not?
The 501(c)(3) section of the IR regs prohibits certain religious activity and speech. The 1st Amendment doesn’t qualify its prohibition based on the degree of the punishment for violations of the law. It forbids any law that establishes any prohibition.
Again, where is this prohibition, purportedly for churches "going political" happening?
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=163395,00.html
There's no law that states that any church could choose to forgo 501 (c)(3) status and engage in all the political speech that it wants.
Re-read the 1st. It bans Congress from passing any law that prohibits free speech or free exercise of religion. It doesn’t specify that the law has to shut down a church.
Second, if a church gives up 501(c)(3), they cease being a church organization in the eyes of fedgov, and become a business. Prior to the law’s enactment, churches safely existed WITH tax exempt status. The law, in effect, removed tax exempt status UNLESS the church applied for 501(c)(3) status.
Therefore, the law, if effect, restricted speech and religious expression. It clearly violates the 1st Amendment.
And again, I ask you to point out where the free exercise of religion is being prohibited.
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