Casselberry, FL Monthly Meeting (Fair Tax)

Americans For Fair Taxation ^

[Man50D]

Casselberry, FL

Central Library

215 N. Oxford Road

Casselberry, FL 32707

Monthly Meeting for Casselberry and surrounding areas is every second Tuesday at 7 p.m. at the Central Library.

There will be a presentation of the FairTax followed by a Q&A and a discussion of recent volunteer activities.

For more information, please contact Larry Walters at 407-949-2959.

Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2008

Time: 7:00 PM - 8:45 PM

Repeat on the second Tuesday of the month until 07/20/2008

This event does not require an RSVP. Registered users can request event reminders.

Register

[Man50D]

Fair Tax ping!

[purpleraine]

bakatcha

[higgmeister]

Bump for Florida one week from now!

[Mr. K]

The ‘fair tax’ crowd seems to have an awful lot of organization pushing it... it smells like a liberal policy to me

From the near-religious zeal of the proponents, to the deception of the ‘tax inclusive’ rate specification, to the monthly govt. ‘prebate’ handout checks, this thing stinks all over to me

[Man50D]

The ‘fair tax’ crowd seems to have an awful lot of organization pushing it... it smells like a liberal policy to me

From the near-religious zeal of the proponents, to the deception of the ‘tax inclusive’ rate specification, to the monthly govt. ‘prebate’ handout checks, this thing stinks all over to me

You are partially correct. The Americans For Fair Taxation is a large organization with a growing grassroots effort each day. Fair Tax supporters are zealous in replacing a tax code that has taken power and freedom from the people with an agency that demands every bit of personal detail with a system that restores that freedom to the people as our zealous founding fathers intended when they wrote the Constitution.

The rest of your statement couldn't be more incorrect. The inclusive/exclusive(23%/30%) rate comparison is only two different ways of looking a the same animal. The dollar amount collected will be the same regardless of whether you are quoting the tax inclusive or tax exclusive rate. Your misconception of the prebate ignores the fundamental point the prebate returns only taxes to be paid on necessities up to the poverty level. It won't come close to paying the necessary amount of money to the bills for a family. At least one person in the household will still have to work. It's obvious from your statements you have not read Fair Tax Act or read the information at Americans For Fair Taxation

[Mr. K]

yes, I have read them and, AS USUAL, you completely miss the point of my post.

PRE-BATES = monthly govt handout

TAX-INCLUSIVE = deception

ZEALOTS = well just read your reply...”The inclusive/exclusive(23%/30%) rate comparison is only two different ways of looking a the same animal. The dollar amount collected will be the same regardless of whether you are quoting the tax inclusive or tax exclusive rate. Your misconception of the prebate ignores the fundamental point the prebate returns only taxes to be paid on necessities up to the poverty level. It won’t .....” Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz *WOMP*

Look- if the argument was JUST to scrap the existing tax code then I’M ALL FOR IT- can we start with that?

OK then what do we replace it with- a massive GOVERNMENT BUREAOCRACY THAT HANDS OUT CHECKS???? (yeah, no problem with THAT as I can forsee it.. the government NEVER screws up handing out money )

or a FLAT TAX 10% income tax.. one page tax return, no exemptions, on EVERY CENT (poor people receive services and benefit from roads and bridges too)- AND- (here is the good part) the governemtn HAS TO LIVE WITHIN THE AMOUNT COLLECTED

[Man50D]

yes, I have read them and, AS USUAL, you completely miss the point of my post.

PRE-BATES = monthly govt handout

TAX-INCLUSIVE = deception

No, my reply was spot onto your previous post. It's easy to regurgitate the same old vague statements but they lack any credibility without any specifics to refute facts that are specified not only at the Americans For Fair Taxation website but in the Fair Tax bill itself.

or a FLAT TAX 10% income tax...one page tax return, no exemptions

The Fair Tax is a flat tax but on consumption instead of income and will not require any tax return to fill out because the tax will be paid at the point of sale. A flat tax on income has already been tried in this country and has proving to be an abysmal failure. It's called the income tax. The first tax ranged from merely 1% on the first $20,000 of taxable income and was only 7% on incomes above $500,000 when enacted in 1913. People essentially paid the 1% tax since so few earned above $500,000 in 1913. Less than 5% of the population was covered by the tax code. Today that simple little flat tax evolved into the multi tiered 67,000+ page tax code and covers 80% of the population. Another flat tax on income will eventually morph back into what we have today only faster thanks to the thousands of lobbyists that didn't exist in 1913. Those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it. Your comments are becoming more ludicrous with each post.

[Cracker Jack]

I may have less experience responding to your posts than Man50D, but I will chime in anyway.

PRE-BATES = monthly govt handout

The "prebate" is a cutesy name for a tax refund. Under your definition, a tax refund is a government handout. So I assume you have never claimed a tax refund on your income tax.

TAX-INCLUSIVE = deception

I don't care whether you call it a 23% tax or an (almost) 30% tax. If I earn $100 and $23 is withheld from my gross income, I have $77 left to buy stuff. Under the FairTax, I receive my all of my gross income. When I spend $100, $23 is for the tax and $77 is for the stuff.

One is a 23% income tax, the other is a 23% consumption tax. Or one is a 30% tax on the product and one is a 30% tax compared to what I have left to spend. In both cases, the tax paid was $23. Where is the deception?

Just use inclusive to compare both tax systems or exclusive to compare both tax systems. It is only deceptive when using inclusive for one and exclusive for the other.

I don't believe anyone smart enough to run a computer would be dumb enough to get confused by inclusive/exclusive taxes. So I must believe you have some other agenda for making your accusation of deceit. What is it?

[Mr. K]

Another liberal trait of the ‘fair tax’ crowd...

attack anyone who questions them:

“I don’t believe anyone smart enough to run a computer would be dumb enough to get confused by inclusive/exclusive taxes. “ -Cracker Jack

“Your comments are becoming more ludicrous with each post. “ - Man50D

Thanks for changing the discussion to name-calling

And no one has yet to address one of my main points- the ‘prebate’ checks. Do you REALLY expect the goverment to had out $BILLIONS efficiently each month? Look at what happened when they tried to hand out money after Katrina.

ALSO- and this is important~!- The PRE-BATE dollar amount has no where to go but UP!

Do you think that every election won’t have politicians promising a bigger ‘pre-bate’? and what happens to one who promises a SMALLER ‘pre-bate’ check?

You can count on misdirection and word twisting

” don’t care whether you call it a 23% tax or an (almost) 30% tax. If I earn $100 and $23 is withheld from my gross income, I have $77 left to buy stuff. Under the FairTax, I receive my all of my gross income. When I spend $100, $23 is for the tax and $77 is for the stuff.”

When you go to the store now to buy something and they tack on the sales tax- what rate to do they use? (tax exclusive) it is how every normal person knows how to calculate sales tax. But fair taxers insist on using a method not normally associated with SALES TAX when computing a SALES TAX.

Not only that, it deceptively gives the impression of a MUCH LOWER rate (23% -vs- 30%) I would rather people hear that higher rate whenever we talk about taxes. If the choice does not matter to you, then use the higher rate (yes I hope a 30% sales tax DOES scare the heck out of people)

[Cracker Jack]

Another liberal trait of the ‘fair tax’ crowd... attack anyone who questions them:

Talk about an "attack". Even Obama considers it an insult to be called liberal. Anyone who calls me liberal is not only being insulting, but is also demonstrating gross ignorance about me and my philosophy.

Thanks for changing the discussion to name-calling

Have we discussed name-calling enough?

you REALLY expect the goverment to had out $BILLIONS efficiently each month?

Actually, handing out money is one of the things the government does pretty well. In the case of the prebate, most refunds will be distributed electronically to a bank account.

The PRE-BATE dollar amount has no where to go but UP!

As the FairTax is configured, the prebate is tied to the poverty level as defined by the government and is financed by taxes collected by the FairTax. If the poverty level goes up, the prebate goes up. If Congress messes with the formula, it is up to the voters to punish them.

But fair taxers insist on using a method not normally associated with SALES TAX when computing a SALES TAX.

And FairTax opponents insist on using an exclusive tax rate to describe the FairTax and an inclusive tax rate to describe the income tax. This results in a misleading comparison.

I agree that 30% sounds higher than 23%. But giving the name "25%" to one of the many income tax brackets sounds lower than if it was named the 33% bracket. In either case, the income tax paid on $100 income is $25. It is 25% of the $100 gross or 33.3% of the 75% net.

So by your rules, the FairTax rate must be described by its 30% exclusive percent and the income tax rate is described by its 25% inclusive percent. Who is it that is REALLY doing the deceiving here?