Texas LDS deal with confusion

Deseret News ^ | 04/21/2008 | Ben Winslow

[JRochelle]

While the FLDS Church is not connected in any way to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, some Mormon faithful have said they feel they are being found guilty by association.

Lies like that don't help the Mormons.

[JRochelle]

FIP

[Bushwacker777]

What lies?

[org.whodat]

The LDS Church has said there is no such thing as a "fundamentalist Mormon," although an estimated 37,000 people who practice it consider themselves as such.

You can see how they are rushing and trying to put a stop to the child abuse in Utah. NOT

[JRochelle]

There is a connection.

They both believe in the Book of Mormon and they both come from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

To say there is no connection is stupid. People really do know better.

I know the current Mormon church does not practice polygamy. But don’t try and tell me there is no connection. In fact read the last 3 paragraphs. Proof of a connection.

[Colofornian]

From the article: Clinton Hudson, a student at Sonora High School, is a member of a Christian student fellowship. During a lunchtime meeting, he said one student said they should pray for the children taken in the raid. Another student said they should "pray for the Mormons." "I approached her and said, 'They're not Mormons. They're fundamentalists..."

Wait a minute. Mainstream FReeper Mormons tell us all the time they are "Christians" and question anybody who has the right to define "Christian." How is it that mainstream Mormsn are able to be the sole arbiters of defining what a "Mormon" is?

From the article: In repeated statements, leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have differentiated between the two faiths...

Wow! Now LDS Church has pushed the fLDS a whole "faith" apart!!! I mean I think of historic Christianity to be the same "faith" even though denominations are distinct affiliations!

[marbren]

Which group would Joseph Smith belong to.

[fishtank]

The fLDS are Mormons: lock, stock and barrel all the way.

[Jane Austen]

Maybe the statement should read “there is no significant connection.” I will the say the same thing re connection between mainline Protestant churches and David Koresh and Jim Jones. I do not judge Protestants by the actions of Paul Crouch or cults such as Children of God even though many, many parallels can be drawn.

[Old Mountain man]

From the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints:

• The Church reiterated on 6 April that it has no affiliation whatever with the Texas-based sect that has been subject to investigation by state law enforcement officers and child protective services in recent days, and whose leader, Warren Jeffs, was jailed in 2006.
• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued polygamy officially in 1890. Some people left the Church to continue the practice of polygamy, or were excommunicated because they refused to give up the practice. Some of their descendants are found in polygamous communities today in various parts of the United States and Canada, but especially in the West. They are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• [The late] Church President Gordon B. Hinckley stated the following about polygamy in the Church’s October 1998 general conference: “I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.”
• Some news reports, especially those outside the U.S., still fail to draw clear distinctions between Mormons and polygamous sects whenever stories arise about polygamy in the Intermountain West.
• The term “Mormon” is correctly used to apply ONLY to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Mormon” should never be used to describe polygamous sects.
• Latter-day Saints are offended when elementary mistakes are made in the news media or when printed or posted photographs fail to make the distinction between the Church and polygamous groups.
• Elder [M. Russell] Ballard [of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles] stated: “You would think that after over 100 years, media organizations would understand the difference. You can’t blame the public for being confused when some of those reporting on these stories keep getting them wrong.”
• There could not be two groups of people more different. Mormons do not look like members of the polygamous group in Texas — they do not dress like them, worship like them, or believe the same things.
• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a global faith with 13 million members worldwide. We teach the gospel in 90 languages. There are members of our faith in every country. We are the 4th largest denomination in the U.S. We have donated over $1 billion in humanitarian aid worldwide. We operate Brigham Young University. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could not be more different than these small, secretive, polygamous societies.

[Old Mountain man]

From the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints:

• The Church reiterated on 6 April that it has no affiliation whatever with the Texas-based sect that has been subject to investigation by state law enforcement officers and child protective services in recent days, and whose leader, Warren Jeffs, was jailed in 2006.
• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued polygamy officially in 1890. Some people left the Church to continue the practice of polygamy, or were excommunicated because they refused to give up the practice. Some of their descendants are found in polygamous communities today in various parts of the United States and Canada, but especially in the West. They are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
• [The late] Church President Gordon B. Hinckley stated the following about polygamy in the Church’s October 1998 general conference: “I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.”
• Some news reports, especially those outside the U.S., still fail to draw clear distinctions between Mormons and polygamous sects whenever stories arise about polygamy in the Intermountain West.
• The term “Mormon” is correctly used to apply ONLY to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Mormon” should never be used to describe polygamous sects.
• Latter-day Saints are offended when elementary mistakes are made in the news media or when printed or posted photographs fail to make the distinction between the Church and polygamous groups.
• Elder [M. Russell] Ballard [of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles] stated: “You would think that after over 100 years, media organizations would understand the difference. You can’t blame the public for being confused when some of those reporting on these stories keep getting them wrong.”
• There could not be two groups of people more different. Mormons do not look like members of the polygamous group in Texas — they do not dress like them, worship like them, or believe the same things.
• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a global faith with 13 million members worldwide. We teach the gospel in 90 languages. There are members of our faith in every country. We are the 4th largest denomination in the U.S. We have donated over $1 billion in humanitarian aid worldwide. We operate Brigham Young University. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could not be more different than these small, secretive, polygamous societies.
And you are a Westboro Baptist, lock stock and barrel!

[greyfoxx39]

"There are some people here that believe anything bad about Mormons and that's what they're going to do," said Charles L. Webb, who serves as president of the Abilene, Texas, stake."

There are millions of mormons who believe EVERYTHING bad about non-mormon faiths, and proselytize by preaching that only mormons have the "true gospel" and that's what they're going to do.

Sounds like schadenfreude to me.

[jwatz49]

Joseph Smith did not practice Polygamy; so, you figure it out!

[greyfoxx39]

LET'S SEE IF WE CAN NARROW THE DEBATE

According to your prior posts (with corrections noted):

From the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints:

• The Church reiterated on 6 April that it has no affiliation whatever with the Texas-based sect that has been subject to investigation by state law enforcement officers and child protective services in recent days, and whose leader, Warren Jeffs, was jailed in 2006.

  Agreed.

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued polygamy officially in 1890. Some people left the Church to continue the practice of polygamy, or were excommunicated because they refused to give up the practice. Some of their descendants are found in polygamous communities today in various parts of the United States and Canada, but especially in the West. They are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

  As noted HERE with annotations, many members of the LDS Church did not abandon the Principal with the announcement of the First Manifesto. The LDS Church openly and officially tolerated the practice in the Office of the President until 1945.

• [The late] Church President Gordon B. Hinckley stated the following about polygamy in the Church’s October 1998 general conference: “I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.”

  President Hinckley's statement raises the following questions:

  • Didn't at least two LDS leaders (Joseph F. Smith & Heber J. Grant) defy the law and continue practicing polygamy long after your church promised to stop?

  • If polygamy became legal tomorrow, would the LDS Church cease to condemn it? Would it again be a requirement for true salvation as taught by Brigham Young in 1866?

  • Doesn't the LDS Church teach polygamy will be re-instituted in the next life?

  • Is it true that LDS Church Leaders have taught that Mormonism's God, as well as Jesus were practicing polygamists?

• Some news reports, especially those outside the U.S., still fail to draw clear distinctions between Mormons and polygamous sects whenever stories arise about polygamy in the Intermountain West.

  Agreed, although in defense of the media, sometimes it is hard to delineate between the various groups in terms of doctrine (excluding D&C Section 132).

• The term “Mormon” is correctly used to apply ONLY to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Mormon” should never be used to describe polygamous sects.

  But don't the polygamous sects accept the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine & Covenants as inspired works? Don't they try to follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to the letter? Doesn't this qualify them as Mormon? If not, why?

• Latter-day Saints are offended when elementary mistakes are made in the news media or when printed or posted photographs fail to make the distinction between the Church and polygamous groups.

  I don't blame you. It offends me when elementary mistakes are made about Christianity, such as when individuals refer to Mormons as a Christian sect.

• Elder [M. Russell] Ballard [of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles] stated: “You would think that after over 100 years, media organizations would understand the difference. You can’t blame the public for being confused when some of those reporting on these stories keep getting them wrong.”

  Agreed.

• There could not be two groups of people more different. Mormons do not look like members of the polygamous group in Texas — they do not dress like them, worship like them, or believe the same things.

  Actually, with the exception of Doctrine & Covenants Section 132, don't you believe in the same things and worship like them?

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a global faith with 13 million members worldwide. We teach the gospel in 90 languages. There are members of our faith in every country. We are the 4th largest denomination in the U.S. We have donated over $1 billion in humanitarian aid worldwide. We operate Brigham Young University. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could not be more different than these small, secretive, polygamous societies.

  Your church membership statistics are highly suspect. And, as noted above, there are many similarities between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its Fundimentalist offshoots.

See if you can understand this. Try. I know it’s hard.

  posted on Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:00:52 PM by  Zakeet

 

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2004425/posts?page=35#35

 Thanks, OMM for the opportunity to post this again from Zakeet.

LET'S SEE IF WE CAN NARROW THE DEBATE

• The Church reiterated on 6 April that it has no affiliation whatever with the Texas-based sect that has been subject to investigation by state law enforcement officers and child protective services in recent days, and whose leader, Warren Jeffs, was jailed in 2006.

  Agreed.

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discontinued polygamy officially in 1890. Some people left the Church to continue the practice of polygamy, or were excommunicated because they refused to give up the practice. Some of their descendants are found in polygamous communities today in various parts of the United States and Canada, but especially in the West. They are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

  As noted HERE with annotations, many members of the LDS Church did not abandon the Principal with the announcement of the First Manifesto. The LDS Church openly and officially tolerated the practice in the Office of the President until 1945.

• [The late] Church President Gordon B. Hinckley stated the following about polygamy in the Church’s October 1998 general conference: “I wish to state categorically that this Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. Most of them have never been members … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.”

  President Hinckley's statement raises the following questions:

  • Didn't at least two LDS leaders (Joseph F. Smith & Heber J. Grant) defy the law and continue practicing polygamy long after your church promised to stop?

  • If polygamy became legal tomorrow, would the LDS Church cease to condemn it? Would it again be a requirement for true salvation as taught by Brigham Young in 1866?

  • Doesn't the LDS Church teach polygamy will be re-instituted in the next life?

  • Is it true that LDS Church Leaders have taught that Mormonism's God, as well as Jesus were practicing polygamists?

• Some news reports, especially those outside the U.S., still fail to draw clear distinctions between Mormons and polygamous sects whenever stories arise about polygamy in the Intermountain West.

  Agreed, although in defense of the media, sometimes it is hard to delineate between the various groups in terms of doctrine (excluding D&C Section 132).

• The term “Mormon” is correctly used to apply ONLY to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. “Mormon” should never be used to describe polygamous sects.

  But don't the polygamous sects accept the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine & Covenants as inspired works? Don't they try to follow the teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to the letter? Doesn't this qualify them as Mormon? If not, why?

• Latter-day Saints are offended when elementary mistakes are made in the news media or when printed or posted photographs fail to make the distinction between the Church and polygamous groups.

  I don't blame you. It offends me when elementary mistakes are made about Christianity, such as when individuals refer to Mormons as a Christian sect.

• Elder [M. Russell] Ballard [of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles] stated: “You would think that after over 100 years, media organizations would understand the difference. You can’t blame the public for being confused when some of those reporting on these stories keep getting them wrong.”

  Agreed.

• There could not be two groups of people more different. Mormons do not look like members of the polygamous group in Texas — they do not dress like them, worship like them, or believe the same things.

  Actually, with the exception of Doctrine & Covenants Section 132, don't you believe in the same things and worship like them?

• The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a global faith with 13 million members worldwide. We teach the gospel in 90 languages. There are members of our faith in every country. We are the 4th largest denomination in the U.S. We have donated over $1 billion in humanitarian aid worldwide. We operate Brigham Young University. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could not be more different than these small, secretive, polygamous societies.

  Your church membership statistics are highly suspect. And, as noted above, there are many similarities between the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its Fundimentalist offshoots.

[DelphiUser]

I know the current Mormon church does not practice polygamy. But don’t try and tell me there is no connection. In fact read the last 3 paragraphs. Proof of a connection.

By your logic, since you and the Fred Phelps gang read the bible you are responsible for what they do, right?

Get real.

[Neoliberalnot]

Nazi-like judge to separate babies from moms! Conducting DNA tests, giving babies away like cattle!

(associated press) Adult mothers who have been allowed to stay with their young children since they were taken from a polygamous sect will be ......

[JRochelle]

We operate Brigham Young University. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could not be more different than these small, secretive, polygamous societies.

The irony in those two lines is hilarious.

The LDS named its University after a guy who had 50+ wives! LOL

And you are so different! Do you really not see it?

[metmom]

Nazi-like judge cult leaders to separate babies from moms!

That's more like it.

...giving babies away like cattle!

Exactly what the cult does.

[JRochelle]

LOL.

You guys bringing up Fred Phelps is so funny. I could not care less about that.

[Old Mountain man]

Your changes are meaningless and correct nothing. Of course, I understand that you feel free to post any lie available to make the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints look bad.

How was your church service yesterday?