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When Girls Will Be Boys
The New York Times Magazine ^ | March 16, 2008 | Alissa Quart

Posted on 03/17/2008 8:50:15 PM PDT by Marc Tumin

It was late on a rainy fall day, and a college freshman named Rey was showing me the new tattoo on his arm. It commemorated his 500-mile hike through Europe the previous summer, which happened also to be, he said, the last time he was happy. We sat together for a while in his room talking, his tattoo of a piece with his spiky brown hair, oversize tribal earrings and very baggy jeans. He showed me a photo of himself and his girlfriend kissing, pointed out his small drum kit, a bass guitar that lay next to his rumpled clothes and towels and empty bottles of green tea, one full of dried flowers, and the ink self-portraits and drawings of nudes that he had tacked to the walls. Thick jasmine incense competed with his cigarette smoke. He changed the music on his laptop with the melancholy, slightly startled air of a college boy on his own for the first time.

Rey’s story, though, had some unusual dimensions. The elite college he began attending last year in New York City, with its academically competitive, fresh-faced students, happened to be a women’s school, Barnard. That’s because when Rey first entered the freshman class, he was a woman.

Rey, who asked that neither his last name nor his given name be used to protect his and his family’s privacy, grew up in Chappaqua, the affluent Westchester suburb that is home to the Clintons, and had a relatively ordinary, middle-class Jewish childhood....

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: New York
KEYWORDS: addadictomy; disorders; education; gay; genderiddisorder; homosexual; homosexualagenda; mentaldisorders; mentalillness; nyglbttimes; psychology; transgender

1 posted on 03/17/2008 8:50:16 PM PDT by Marc Tumin
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To: Marc Tumin

Why are freak-shows news today? I simply don’t get it.


2 posted on 03/17/2008 8:53:45 PM PDT by Antoninus (Tell us how you came to Barack?)
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To: Antoninus

I had a female to male er ... fellow in my abnormal psych class. Utterly miserable and confused. good transformation though I didn’t even notice until it was brought up.


3 posted on 03/17/2008 8:57:12 PM PDT by utherdoul
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To: Marc Tumin

4 posted on 03/17/2008 8:59:41 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: utherdoul

“I didn’t even notice until it was brought up.”

That is just sick!


5 posted on 03/17/2008 9:00:08 PM PDT by Siberian-psycho (An oppressed class which did not try to possess arms, would deserve to be treated as slaves." Lenin)
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To: Antoninus
"Why are freak-shows news today? I simply don’t get it."

I do.

It's an apparently successful attempt by the media to normalize deviancy, to "define deviancy down."

They want us to think there are lots of sick fvcks like "Rey," and that we shouldn't think there's anything wrong with them.

They haven't found a way, however, to keep the bile from rising in my throat...

6 posted on 03/17/2008 9:01:12 PM PDT by Redbob (WWJBD - "What Would Jack Bauer Do?")
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To: Siberian-psycho

Hey he must have gone through some serious hormone therapy, hairy arms fairly deep voice. It was very disturbing. I think the class was actually discussing that sort of thing when he dropped that bomb shell.


7 posted on 03/17/2008 9:02:40 PM PDT by utherdoul
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To: Marc Tumin

Mayhap if boys were raised by men and girls raised by women, this wouldn’t be a problem.?


8 posted on 03/17/2008 9:04:52 PM PDT by doc1019 (God is in control ... not Global Warming.)
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To: Marc Tumin

It’s too bad that the fathers of these NY Times writers failed to use condoms or the “pullout method”.


9 posted on 03/17/2008 9:19:59 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: Stoat

Laughing! Hard! Great pic.


10 posted on 03/17/2008 9:20:48 PM PDT by swampdweller (Live Free or Die Hard)
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To: Antoninus

If you tell deviant stories long enough and loud enough, eventually people start to accept them.


11 posted on 03/17/2008 9:23:36 PM PDT by swampdweller (Live Free or Die Hard)
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To: Marc Tumin

It must be really depressing after you have your 5 minutes of fame and then wake up the next day and no one cares!


12 posted on 03/17/2008 9:32:45 PM PDT by RushingWater (Pres. Bush honors Mexican sovereignty over our own - Pardon Ramos/Campeon/Hernandez)
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To: Marc Tumin

I read two pages, that’s enough. Typical baloney. Abnormal becomes normal, normal becomes fringe.


13 posted on 03/17/2008 9:51:49 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
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To: Marc Tumin

I knew someone once at work who’d gone through this. I can’t begin to imagine the stress on them wrestling with these decisions. It was a very sad story that finally turned out for the best.


14 posted on 03/17/2008 9:55:21 PM PDT by 1066AD
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To: Marc Tumin

“When girls will be boys”

I suppose that is when women will REALLY destroy each other.


15 posted on 03/17/2008 9:55:34 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: Stoat

Caption: Not Quite the 3am Call We’d Thought Hillary Would Take.


16 posted on 03/17/2008 9:56:14 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man
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To: Marc Tumin

Someday it would be fun to argue with one of these girls. Point out to them that they’ve only changed the outside. Their skeletons would still invariably be sexed as female by any anthropologist, and a thousand years from now when they’re dug up and put on display, it will say “woman” forever.


17 posted on 03/17/2008 10:03:12 PM PDT by Styria
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To: swampdweller
cockslap
18 posted on 03/17/2008 10:17:57 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Caption: Not Quite the 3am Call We’d Thought Hillary Would Take.

I would imagine that Her Thighness will likely be quite busy at 3AM anyhow  :-)

 

 Hillary's wild night

19 posted on 03/17/2008 10:58:29 PM PDT by Stoat (Rice / Coulter 2012: Smart Ladies for a Strong America)
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To: Redbob
There has been a lot of propaganda to bring about this result. From the article:

The idea that he might actually want to transition from female to male began to take shape for Rey when he was 14 or 15; ... “A transmale speaker guy” gave a talk at a meeting of his high school’s Gay Straight Alliance, and Rey was inspired. ...

At the end of his freshman year in high school, he met Melissa, ... Melissa, who was immersed in campus gender activism, mentioned the concept of being a “transman” and spoke of her transmale friends. Rey confided his questions about his gender identity to her, and she encouraged him to explore them further. For most of high school, Rey spent hours online reading about transgendered people and their lives. “The Internet is the best thing for trans people,” he said. “Living in the suburbs, online groups were an access point.” He also started reading memoirs of transgendered people. He asked Melissa to explain the gender theory she was learning in college.

In addition, 147 colleges and universities nationwide now include “gender identity and expression” in their nondiscrimination policies, and students will often use gender-neutral pronouns like “ze” and “hir” — especially if they post on campus message boards. At Wesleyan last year, students initiated a survey of bathrooms, checking to see if they were transgender-friendly — open to all sexes. Many colleges now have Transgender Days of Remembrance in memory of victims of gender-identity-related hate crimes.

As Judith Halberstam, a professor of English and gender studies at the University of Southern California and the author of “Female Masculinity,” put it, feminist theory offers students a way to think about gender as performance, to create a trans self or a genderqueer one — and give that self contours, definition — in a way that was simply unavailable 30 years ago.

20 posted on 03/17/2008 11:22:50 PM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: 1066AD

“I knew someone once at work who’d gone through this. I can’t begin to imagine the stress on them wrestling with these decisions. It was a very sad story that finally turned out for the best.”

________________________________________________________________________________-

I dunno, I’ve heard rumblings that a substantial proportion of transsexuals end up regretting their choice but that, like abortion and breast cancer, those figures are suppressed by the usual suspects. I’m willing to bet, that the cause of gender dysmorphic disorder is not so mysterious after all, that most of it’s victims, like nearly all gays, were in fact molested as very young children.


21 posted on 03/17/2008 11:52:04 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: doc1019

> “Mayhap if boys were raised by men and girls raised by women, this wouldn’t be a problem.?” <

That’s the way they did it in ancient Greece. The result was rampant homosexuality.


22 posted on 03/17/2008 11:56:37 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately seeking a conservative candidate.)
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To: Mad_Tom_Rackham; Marc Tumin
It’s too bad that the fathers of these NY Times writers failed to use condoms or the “pullout method”.

But the sons haven't a clue as to where to pit it anyway.

23 posted on 03/18/2008 12:01:30 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative
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To: utherdoul

There’s a good reason he was in the abnormal psych class.


24 posted on 03/18/2008 1:15:04 AM PDT by darkangel82 (If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. (Say no to RINOs))
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To: Marc Tumin

Sick.


25 posted on 03/18/2008 4:00:23 AM PDT by Shirerwasright (Liberalism continues to erode the foundations of America)
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To: doc1019
Mayhap if boys were raised by men and girls raised by women, this wouldn’t be a problem.?

You are not allowed to make such radical suggestions until you check in with:

Brett-Genny Janiczek Beemyn

26 posted on 03/18/2008 6:35:38 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Nobama08. Get me a general for President and Steele or Blackwell for VP.)
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To: doc1019
[Mayhap if boys were raised by men and girls raised by women, this wouldn’t be a problem?]
 
What, are you suggesting a normal family has a male father and a female mother?
 
Can't teach that in California public schools.  Might offend the gender challenged.
 

27 posted on 03/18/2008 10:36:44 AM PDT by Etoo (I regret that I have but one screen name to sacrifice for my country.)
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To: wintertime

ping


28 posted on 03/18/2008 11:53:25 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: SatinDoll

That is myth. There was no “rampant” homosexuality in either ancient or Hellenistic Greece.


29 posted on 03/18/2008 8:19:59 PM PDT by NucSubs (Democrat:: one who panders to the crude and mindless whims of the masses.)
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To: NucSubs

Sorry, Nucsubs, but as a highly trained professional Art Historian, I beg to differ.

The Greeks idealized the man-boy love relationship to such an extent that they painted the pornographic subject on pottery. Lots of pottery. There are people who collect it (no doubt for the salaciousness of the subject), and in museums it is usually kept in the storage areas accessible only to staff. We unlucky few are, ahem, exposed to it. (Sorry for the pun.)

I take it from your handle that you were in the Nuclear Sub Fleet. I was, for six years, a Navy linguist (CTI).


30 posted on 03/18/2008 10:50:19 PM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately seeking a conservative candidate.)
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To: SatinDoll
Sorry SatinDoll but Victor Davis Hanson disagrees.

Among particular social and economic cadres of the ancient world, there was certainly nothing deemed wrong with homosexual liaisons under accepted protocols. On the other hand, for the vast majority of rural folk in the Mediterranean world, heterosexuality and marriage were, of course, the norms. The pre-Christian poor and agrarian classes considered homosexual acts deviant, not on religious grounds of sinfulness, but rather as proof of corruption and decadence that were the wages of too much money and too much time in town.

This is merely the one quote I could find quickly online. I have read several books by him and he makes it quite clear that homosexuality was neither "rampant" nor celebrated. It was accepted in very narrow terms and considered a pathology of the very wealthy (hence the surviving art evidence you point to and the persistence of the myth). Your argument comes from the likes of Cahill who is a liberal hack next to Hanson.

I was in from 85-92, See my profile.

31 posted on 03/19/2008 2:17:46 AM PDT by NucSubs (Democrat:: one who panders to the crude and mindless whims of the masses.)
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To: NucSubs

> “...It was accepted in very narrow terms and considered a pathology of the very wealthy...” <

Good catch. That statement sounds like it would be closer to the “norm” for the majority who are usually voiceless. Why? Unfortunately rural folk in the ancient world didn’t write the histories - they couldn’t write much less read. To receive an education one had to have wealth - so guess who wrote the histories?

Interest in how ancient peoples lived, other than the very wealthy, has been of increasing interest during the last half of the 20th century, something I believe we Americans fostered. Personally I’m glad to see it.

Western Civilization’s classical perception of the ancient world has tended to be fixed by the interests of 18th-19th century Europeans, a group whose backgrounds were anything but middleclass. The homosexual agenda goes way back.

Thank you for the civil conversation on this subject.


32 posted on 03/19/2008 9:09:48 AM PDT by SatinDoll (Desperately seeking a conservative candidate.)
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To: SatinDoll
Same to you.

The issue was not about the presence of homosexuality in Greece, it was the use of use of "rampant". It made it sound like the Greeks were all rump rangers.

They were not and most of the ones who did participate in this repulsive behavior practiced more of a pedastry with feminine looking adolescent boys, never grown men.

33 posted on 03/19/2008 10:01:34 AM PDT by NucSubs (Democrat:: one who panders to the crude and mindless whims of the masses.)
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To: NucSubs

“Sorry Rey, but you are not a man” - The Men


34 posted on 03/24/2008 10:50:47 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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